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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:14 am 
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This is were the tactical really can affect your practice

Soft moving hard on application is a great explanation.

I prefer to think of stances not as poses but footwork, and everythings transitional.

I combine a natural stance with talking with my hands , seems the best timing mobility for me when watching others.

pivoting sliding and having base in motion. Gaining positonal advantage and as obvious as it sounds always commiting going in the direction/entry your heading.

Vans link is great , I see everything mentioned in uechi at least the way i approach it , its always good to see similar conclusions reached by differing people, lots of solid material.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:01 am 
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In the last club that I attended, a wing chun club the stance was used to generate power. It doesn't look a lot like what folks normally assume a WC punch to look like but it is very effective close in. Here is a clip from the club, you maybe able to seee some of the basics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... eFzLUWSC_4


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Stryke wrote:
This is were the tactical really can affect your practice

Soft moving hard on application is a great explanation.

I prefer to think of stances not as poses but footwork, and everythings transitional.

I combine a natural stance with talking with my hands , seems the best timing mobility for me when watching others.

pivoting sliding and having base in motion. Gaining positonal advantage and as obvious as it sounds always commiting going in the direction/entry your heading.

Vans link is great , I see everything mentioned in uechi at least the way i approach it , its always good to see similar conclusions reached by differing people, lots of solid material.


Fully agree with all of this. Some refer to the hands up in a tactical position as "the fence"(google Geoff Thompson Fence video.) Works very well when you can't use a pre-emptive strike-maybe a doorman,or in my case working in mental health I cannot use a first strike. For some reason the hands up while talking and slightly moving those hands distracts the guy and he is both following your slight hand movements and listening at the same time. I've had success with this many times at my job. I usually blade to the side and watch for pre-contact cues while talking the person down. Having a plan keeps my anxiety from rising and the angry patient tends to mirror my relaxed, matter of fact manner and usually calms down. I'd assume this can work for those in situations where a pre-emptive strike is an option.

Google Thompson and tell me if you don't see a sanchin principle in there.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:08 pm 
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jorvik wrote:
In the last club that I attended, a wing chun club the stance was used to generate power. It doesn't look a lot like what folks normally assume a WC punch to look like but it is very effective close in. Here is a clip from the club, you maybe able to seee some of the basics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... eFzLUWSC_4


I used to think wing chun and tai chi were BS until I saw this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/user/138mws/videos

Guy's kind of a comedian but I think very good at explaining the practical side of both styles. Goes to show that almost any style is practical if trained correctly and practiced diligently.

And , Ray, also from the UK where there seems to be wealth of TMA guys teaching very practical stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Hands up or hands down.

Always best to remember the 'operant conditioning' rule...
When physical tasks are repeated over and over - we integrate them as a result of the complex neural activity taking place in the brain.

Now think of how we train in Uechi.
Under a threat you will do what you have habitually, mostly, and 'recently' practiced.

Can we modify the 'irresistible impulse' to bring our hands up when an opponent closes the distance?

It depends on the gravity of the situation and what our
sympathetic nervous system [SNS] will dictate at the moment.

Then there legal considerations given the possibility of witnesses and cameras.

Image

In the photo, South Narc, shows te 'hands high_compressed fence' which he couples with verbal commands...something reflective of what usually precedes engagement.

This goes a long way in your pleading self defense.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Quote
"I used to think wing chun and tai chi were BS until I saw this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/user/138mws/videos

Guy's kind of a comedian but I think very good at explaining the practical side of both styles. Goes to show that almost any style is practical if trained correctly and practiced diligently.

And , Ray, also from the UK where there seems to be wealth of TMA guys teaching very practical stuff."

Jo
Tai chi and Wing chun are difficult arts to learn because it takes an age to find someone who is half ways decent to teach you. I spent many fruitless years trying to find a decent Tai Chi teacher, and before that I had the same trouble with Aikido and then later with Wing Chun.
In the end with wing chun I gave up because of hip problems but also, referring back to something Marcus said about "Sanchin in a box", that is what Wing chun feels like, like you are trapped in a box, it deliberatly restricts it's options.the guy at my last school was really good, a very interesting charachter, he actually learned his wing chun in the US under Gary Lam, who was a thai boxer just like himself...........but as with all arts there are flaws and openings :wink:

There are lots of TMA's in the UK, maybe because we have lots of old traditions that we accept as a given , we tend to find the most practical aspects of traditions


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:58 pm 
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Stances

Good points on stances.

Here are my views:

1. Stances in sanchin ingrain lower body strenght while instilling a balance platform_ i.e., the correct distribution of bodyweight.The correct use of your bodyweight is a must if your techniques are to be effective.

All techniques must be applied with the entire body acting as the handle of a whip...and not just the striking limb.

One of the reason why we are 'tested' in still and moving positions. Sanchin does much more than that...but for now we shall address stances.

So _Sanchin kata/stance/stepping_ begins to hardwire this fighting concept.

2. The sanchin stance then streams into a confluence of other stances in more advanced forms_with such stances, despite the word having connotations of something fixed and immovable, really morphing into the correct transitional distribution of bodyweight in the chaotic motion of a fight.

Anyone who has engaged an opponent in training, tournaments, real fighting_gets to understand that distribution of bodyweight is never fixed, but constantly changing depending upon the technique being utilized at that time.

3. Another way to think of stances...is to use the position of the legs to control the opponent's motion.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:04 pm 
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More comments to come on the great points raised but for now I will throw this out there about the raising of the hands when attacked.

That instinct to protect is important and natural.

Making more tactical is a matter of training that we hope kicks in.

Here is a little drill we have to work on going from that “Oh Carp” moment of the assault to “OK I can fight back.”

http://wpd-rc.com/blog/going-from-that- ... ight-back/

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Rick Wilson - http://wpd-rc.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:44 pm 
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A great clip by Rick, one that contains the most critical aspects of engagement, and reflects visually the gist of my comments on kata/stances etc.
In the clip I also see examples of how a leg stance would be used to control and 'defang' an opponent.

These days, the way I train and teach is concentrated on the angling and flanking I was seriously exposed to when practicing with deadly force trainers involving pistol craft drills.

One basic but critical example of it is seen in the South Narc link here_
http://www.urbancombatives.com/sn.htm
Quote:
we should always assume 2 things in any potential confrontation, one, there is a weapon and two, there is more than one aggressor. Hence the need to hard flank to 3 or 9 keeping focus on the known and draw anyone who was behind, into your peripheral vision thus avoiding the need to break visual on the guy in front by looking behind in order to check your 6. Doing so would obviously create an opportunity that could be taken advantage of. Below I have constructed some rather crude drawings to depict the scenario that we were to practice as our first practical drill. The figures in the diagrams depict an overhead or bird’s eye view of a potential pincer approach set up. The dark headed figure depicts the potential target and the 2 lightheaded figures depict 2 street criminals worked together.


Image

Quote:
Fig 1. Shows left side aggressor (leaning against a wall) whilst acting as a scout, who then gives the signal to his mate (top right) as the potential target passes to initiate proceedings by engaging the target with a ruse,

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:50 pm 
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Image

South Narc
Quote:
Fig 2. Shows the conclusion of a successful pincer approach, with the aggressor from behind now about to employ an ambush attack or threat of attack. From here both may join in the assault, or the first aggressor may now act as a scout for the police or some similar disturbance.
Quote:

And
Quote:
Fig 3. Depicts a successful countermeasure to the above tactic, by moving a hard flank to either 3 or 9 whilst maintaining hard focus on the known and bringing the 2nd man, previously behind the intended target, into his now wider scope of peripheral vision. This acts in conjunction with the previously discussed contact management principles.


Image

Quote:
This is your contextual framework for noticing a threat early so that pro-active action can be taken. In addition to this SN told us how he obtained a lot of visual feedback via video and car cam whilst working as a cop in the US. Such footage provided valuable information by showing certain commonality amongst criminals, via a variety of body language cues that were commonly exhibited just before a situation turned violent. These were first explained and demonstrated, then we were shown a police cam video of a live bust where the female officer was shown these cues (unbeknown to her at the time) just before an assault on her person took place.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 pm 
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SN recommended that we all become students of human behavioral kinesis via the study of such footage and of people around us. Certain subtle, innate cues are often exhibited in a cluster just before the physical assault itself.

Understanding and recognizing them offers us a counter to the all too frequent victim statement; ‘’it all happened so fast.’’ There are 2 major factors regarding the difference between training in the dojo and reality in the street.

These are; Unequal initiative: not pre-decided equal initiative via the compliance that you’d find in the dojo. Here the aggressor is aiming to take the initiative ahead of you via either an ambush of some kind of ruse. Being first, or taking and seizing the initiative in any confrontation is a HUGE advantage, hence the need for us to be pre-emptive.

The second major factor is Un-proportional armament: If he has a weapon out and is ready to use it armed with intention and I, have to now default to empty hand skills, then again this is a HUGE advantage to the criminal.

We as civilians must have a criteria for Pre-emption or for taking the said initiative. This comes via the information obtained and from knowing and recognizing certain pre-attack indicators exhibited by our potential aggressor.

This may indeed, need to be related to a court of law in an attempt to help justify our actions post-event. SN proceeded to gives us 3 cues that are often performed in a cluster, along with one stand alone cue that would indicate attack is imminent.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:55 pm 
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*Grooming Cue: this is demonstrated as some kind of gesture towards the face, such as scratching the nose or ear, covering the mouth or running the hand through the hair. All of which could indicate deception.

* Glance to the flank/rear: looking behind or to the left and/or right indicates looking around to see if the coast is clear. People don’t just look around for no apparent reason.

* Definitive weight shift: This could be subtle or very gross motor in action. Weight is shifted in order to gain traction just before launching an attack.


The final stand-alone cue is any kind of hand movement towards the waistband area. This indicates an attempt to access a weapon, as this is the most common carry place along with pockets and inside a coat etc. Up the sleeves or down the sock or boot is more common to the carry of contra-band.

Of course such behavior can integrate together in a cluster real fast if not simultaneously, hence the need to avoid fixating on what is said and observe the cues unfolding. Again its important not to think about what you say, this should be practiced and automatic so that you can focus on the cues.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:10 pm 
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And as we train, never forget the golden rule of 'operant conditioning'

When physical tasks are repeated over and over - we integrate them as a result of the complex neural activity taking place in the brain.

If combat techniques are properly assimilated, the body will be prepared to act spontaneously in situations where a split second can mean life or death.
Have a handful of rapid response survival techniques 'grooved' into you
as choosing from scores of different movements could get you badly hurt or killed.

There is no sense in accumulating a library of complicated Karate moves, even if they are solid street defenses. Learning any more than 3 or 4 could be detrimental.

Distil complex techniques into their basic elements and master them so that you have complete confidence in their effectiveness in high stress situations.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:49 am 
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Good read...


http://www.teddytactical.com/SharpenBla ... Safety.htm

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:09 am 
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great clip Rick Position,Cover,Entry and such drills really develop some great merging skills

position is everything , getting the angle, blind-spot,entry and covering any angles

Movement is the easiest skill we can all step, but the one that is probably the first to break down under stress IMHO, so weve got to really ingrain it.

the only place I don't want to be is the same place , its where the attack is coming.

Quote:
For some reason the hands up while talking and slightly moving those hands distracts the guy and he is both following your slight hand movements and listening at the same time. I've had success with this many times at my job. I usually blade to the side and watch for pre-contact cues while talking the person down. Having a plan keeps my anxiety from rising and the angry patient tends to mirror my relaxed, matter of fact manner and usually calms down. I'd assume this can work for those in situations where a pre-emptive strike is an option.


yeah it works for sure, I'm a fan of the way Geoff Thompson relates some of these concepts , primarily his take on the fence,and his comments on exercising the courage muscle and being deliberate and constructive in life with whatever energy you have, powerful stuff.

Have to agree with having a plan, so important that you can move beyond second guessing whether your doing the right thing, that decisions already been made you just work the process.

talking with your hands takes a little work to be natural,but you can practice any time and its worth it IMHO


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