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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:15 pm 
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I have studied many martial arts over the years, and this was not by choice more by chance. I studied Goju Ryu, then the club closed :( ......then Aikido , but my teacher went to live in Japan :roll: ..............but I always seem to be directed to another source of information, another teacher.
When I realised that my Wing ~Chun teacher new very little.......quite by chance I stumbled upon another who new a whole lot more, but due to past injuries I decided that I would finish this lifetime's study of MA with weapons 8) ...........a friend of mine has just invited me to a fast track instructors programme in his style of Escrima 8) ..................funny how one door closes and another opens :wink: ......any similar experiences? it's more like being guided than choosing :?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:18 pm 
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I have realized this as well. After studying Uechi Ryu in Kentucky, I later moved to Nebraska and quite by accident ended up in the only town in the Great Plains that has a Uechi school from what I can tell, which also introduced me to George, Bill, and others, and these forums. The experience has definitely been positive, but seems to have occurred purely by the whim of the Fates.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:30 pm 
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There are many sayings which address this serendipity thing. Two that come to mind...

When the student is ready, the teacher will be there.

Luck is the combination of preparation and opportunity.

I'm not a believer in fate, luck, predetermined paths, etc. I think we largely make our own luck by the strength of our efforts and character, or lack thereof. There are no guarantees in life of course. But we most certainly can affect the odds.

I'm sometimes amazed at the rapid turns of my life. But when I look back, I realize that the turning point happened when I was ready for it.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:32 am 
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"Luck" is a concept that has its uses, and it is the fact that no guarantees exist that the concept of luck can seem important.
Wikipedia wrote:
Luck or chance is fortune (whether bad or good) which occurs beyond one's control, without regard to one's will, intention, or desired result.

That is as good a concept as any for what happens beyond our control. I consider it very lucky that I was born in the U.S. and have the opportunites that have resulted, as opposed to being born in many other places in the world where there are no opportunities. That is certainly nothing I could have prepared for, and had nothing to do with my strength of effort or character...it was completely beyond my control. Which is why I disagree with this quote
Quote:
Luck is the combination of preparation and opportunity

True luck is only the opportunity part of that equation; preparation is what we can do to capitalize on luck. So to me a more accurate saying would be "Success is the combination of preparation and luck".

The origin of your quote is lost in the mists of time (unlucky for the author I suppose). Seneca the Younger has recently been claimed as the origin, usually with the quote taking the form of
Quote:
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity

but that claim has been refuted since it does not appear in any of his writings...and even if he did say it I doubt that is what he was thinking when he was forced to commit suicide by Emperor Nero.

Quote:
He is lucky who realizes that ‘luck’ is the point where preparation meets opportunity

was a saying popularized by banks in the 1920s as a marketing slogan...that slogan ended with the Great Depression and their luck ran out. They should have taken their own advice.

I do agree that preparation is key to affecting the odds. Like you, the unexpected turning points so far have ended up for the better because I was able to capitalize on them. There were times when I could have been in a better position to capitalize on them better, and times when sheer survival instinct got me through, but that is part of the learning process. So far I have been "lucky" that none of those educational times have gotten the better of me. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:46 am 
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Quote:
When the student is ready, the teacher will be there.


Bill beat me too it , I also think people generally dont realise how many opportunitys are out there , and when ones forced to look they really do find the next thing waiting ......

having said that , its really worth going a long way to explore something your really want , that makes you even luckier IMHO ;) , experiences are everything .

And the other lucky thing is sometimes being isolated from what you want , so you can grow and explore from your own expereince .

theres that other saying , the harder I work , the luckier I get .

Ive have similar experiences with the right teachers at the right times , but seriously theres been times ive had to wait decades for the right teacher to just appear, but I was looking....

got some Doce pares from a work colleague when it was hard to find , finally moved to a place that had good juijitsu and the closest place was the best taught and qualified in the country IMHO , found some Cheng Hsin when i was exploring Ralstons books , amazed it was even in the country , only to find one of his top students 20 mins up the road ...... Got some Judo from a karate colleage/student when I needed some help with my throws .... martial arts trades are good learning , boxing , Muay Thai , all seemed to fit in when I needed it , was it luck finding it ?

I think the luck comes from knowing what your looking for answer wise , not style wise .


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Well those two sayings " When the pupil is ready ,the master will appear" and "chance favours the prepared mind".the first one especially sounds a bit mystical, but when you think about it, it isn't if the pupil isn't ready he probably wouldn't recognise a master anyway :lol:

but in my case the circumstances have been strange. The last kung fu club that I walked into, thinking it was someone else's had only been open a week as the teacher had just come back from abroad, and he hadn't advertised :roll: .so strange to say at the very least


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:42 pm 
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Non-Uechi, non-master, just an observation from an old beginner: 'Seek and you will find, ask and it will be given, knock and the door shall open.' It's a saying based in a Christian philosophy, but has a counterpart in Buddhist thought as well, and embedded in the martial arts ('you must first look to see/find', 'when the student is ready...', etc.). I believe that the search is often undefined, and that often the student enters the dojo know not knowing what they are looking for. Even, thinking they know, and discovering much about themselves, as if their feet and hearts knew more than their head.

Seemingly serendipitous, and luck, but not really.

I was asked this question first starting out, and I ask it as well.

'What are you looking for?'


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:45 pm 
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I have thought about this a lot. I would say the "flow", the movement.like in a sailboat finding the wind and riding it.same as in MA for me at least....the stuff that I really don't like is stuff that goes against the "Flow"..standing there and taking a hit, conditioning etc............a bit like dancing I suppose.for me that is the thrill, the buzz..never the "I'm tougher than you" more the " I move better than you" :lol: ...and not for any reason, violencve gives it a purpose I suppose, but I don't need the reason.but I crave the "flow" 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:48 pm 
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jorvik wrote:
I have thought about this a lot. I would say the "flow", the movement.like in a sailboat finding the wind and riding it.same as in MA for me at least....the stuff that I really don't like is stuff that goes against the "Flow"..standing there and taking a hit, conditioning etc............a bit like dancing I suppose.for me that is the thrill, the buzz..never the "I'm tougher than you" more the " I move better than you" :lol: ...and not for any reason, violencve gives it a purpose I suppose, but I don't need the reason.but I crave the "flow" 8)

It's important to know not just what you like, but why you like it. And you're being completely honest with yourself about it. That's very mature.

I do love movement. I'm not a tiger by nature, I've never been built like a truck, and I tend to be a person who by personality is always looking for the "smart" way of doing things. As Clint Eastwood once said in a movie line, "A man's gotta know his limitations." I'm half smart and half lazy, which means I'll eventually stop doing what's too much like work if I can find a way to do more with less.

KISS is good, but smart can be better. The only issue is whether or not you can get smart to work when you are neuro-hormonally red-lined. That tells you whether or not your "crave" meshes well with reality-based violence. If it isn't optimal but the practice makes you happy, well... It's sort of like having a craving for Harleys or British motorcycles. You love them because you love them.

I do like contact though, as do many. The thing I like about Uechi is the regular and well-controlled contact training. It's an endorphin junkie's dream, and it teaches you the "mind over matter" thing in a way that's difficult to quantify. Serendipitously it can make you fearless when you most need to be that way. These days I find that not much hurts me to the point of total intolerance. Last time I had a tooth that needed to have a filling change, I chose to do it without Novocaine. It really wasn't *that* bad. A month ago I was working around the yard and a machine I was using took a chunk of skin out of my shin. I felt it... My response was more like "Well that's gonna leave a mark." And it did. :lol: Anyhow that's a good place to be. Respect pain as a gift from your CNS, but not have it overwhelm you.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:19 am 
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No meaning to pick on you Bill I agree but thought id share a perspective :)

Quote:
KISS is good, but smart can be better. The only issue is whether or not you can get smart to work when you are neuro-hormonally red-lined. That tells you whether or not your "crave" meshes well with reality-based violence. If it isn't optimal but the practice makes you happy, well..


Smart is simple , not easy but simple , its layering the simple up to the sophisticated in a congruent path that engages the smart muscle IMHO , where falling down a few notches doesnt matter , the principle holds primal or proffessional .

Quote:
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

Albert Einstein



keeps me busy looking for simple though .....


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:47 am 
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Marcus you pretty much defined educational scaffolding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructional_scaffolding

Move from simple to complex, offer support along the way, slowly remove support as it becomes unecessary.
Took me a lot of grad school Ed. classes to understand this, but hey I'm a slow learner!
Eventually the understanding becomes their own.
A good teacher wants their students to realize their own understanding and interpretation. This is what I shoot for in my students.
I would much rather see them show me new interpretations of movements and applications they discover than parrot back what I tell them.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:49 am 
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f.Channell wrote:
Marcus you pretty much defined educational scaffolding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructional_scaffolding

Move from simple to complex, offer support along the way, slowly remove support as it becomes unecessary.
Took me a lot of grad school Ed. classes to understand this, but hey I'm a slow learner!
Eventually the understanding becomes their own.
A good teacher wants their students to realize their own understanding and interpretation. This is what I shoot for in my students.
I would much rather see them show me new interpretations of movements and applications they discover than parrot back what I tell them.


Excellent Fred , thanks very much for the link

Agreed , nothing more rewarding than seeing new interpreatations from your own students and learning from them , teach them to fish :)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Yeah it can be thought of in a couple of ways though. When I was younger and I used to do flashy kicks, one way to learn them was to break them down into workable bits, for example a jumping spinning crescent kick, I would work on the jump and the kick seperatly and then try to find a way to fuse the two and come up with something that looked a bit like the finished article , then just keep on practising until I had it down.
There is another way though, and that is, as I've grown older and done various styles of MA, I have found methods of merging several techniques or movements to create something a bit different and unique, and also hopefully more effective. If I do the wrist lock throw Kote Gaesh, I firstly smash the wrist onto my knee, I then get the wrist more into the position of a shiho nage, but also put my foot behind the opponents foot, to trip him......I like to grab and manipulate the fingers or the thumb as well :twisted: or alternately if I turn in fron of my opponent I like to bring my elbow into his jaw as I turn him round.
EDIT
Neither of these throw look very nice, they look messy and badly executed.but they work :wink:


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