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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:15 pm 
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I came across these guys a while back. I like the way that they move , the thing that puts me off them is that the stuff is not tried and tested, but they do do DVD's and I may invest in some

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubKQ3zcYxPo

they show razor fighting as well.
I also stumbled upon some Italian Razor fighting and I understand they have methods for the stilleto as well although I have never really seen it advertised, I do belive that Italian and Spanish fighters had developed a style of knife fighting and that possibly Escrima was developed form their ideas and was not totally developed in the Phillipines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY6bfur8 ... redirect=1

I have tried various stuff when sparring with people using training weapons and the method that I find the best was the "flosom Prison rush"
http://www.ehow.com/about_4685350_folso ... hting.html


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Here is the best description of the 'rush'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v7AR5BEWvA

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:52 pm 
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I think the best prep for defending against knife attacks comes from the Israelis (Krav) or the Filipino martial arts (kali, escrima, pekiti tirsia).


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:43 pm 
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Reminds me that the original intent of many judo and jiu-jitsu moves was for a samurai to throw another samurai on the ground where he would use a knife to find its way between armor plates.


The razor moves seem very fast and intimidating. However I remember reading somewhere that the Romans and Greeks felt that slicing moves were not effective to kill in combat. They favored deep stabbing moves. In prison the terror factor of a guy completely covered in blood does send a scary message but I am wondering if the Romans were right that in true combat stabbing with direct true deadly intent is more effective. Anyone with more experience than I care to comment if this is true?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Mark,

Indeed. We had Wes Tasker teaching those concepts at our Bridgewater dojo once...really amazing skills.

Hoshin,

Yes it is true about the Romans believing in penetration as opposed to cutting.

And here is something very interesting about the old Romans' ways of the knife... 'Homicide and knife fighting in Rome' ...a great read.

https://ohiostatepress.org/Books/Comple ... Men/09.pdf

Quote:
The aggressive nature of the Romans and their predilection for knife fighting were sometimes regarded as psychological traits related to the peculiar environment and traditions of the city.3 By the end of the nineteenth century, however, criminologists and other experts had become aware that the abuse of weapons, especially of knives, was widespread in many provinces of central, southern, and insular Italy. They also suggested that the frequent abuse of weapons explained why the homicide rate in Italy was much higher than in the more "civilized" countries of central and northern Europe.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:21 pm 
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Quote:
A variety of disputes could lead to violence and homicide. What was at stake is not always easy to detect. The event that gave rise to the clash was often rather trivial, but even in such cases there may have been underlying sources of tension that were totally, or partially, ignored by the magistrates.

An attempted classification of the apparent motives of homicide is shown in table 5.7. Statistical data alone cannot, however, fully describe the nature of the tensions and disputes leading to homicidal violence. I shall, therefore, illustrate them with a number of examples, highlighting some of the most recurrent features of these deadly disputes.

A great number of them apparently began over a joke, an arrogant reply, or other forms of sudden, gratuitous provocation. Disputes of this kind usually took place either in the streets or in drinking places, were related to the abuse of alcohol, and involved young men in their twenties or early thirties.


Here in this country, we now have lots of cases of homicides triggered by offenses taken from cyber-posts.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:56 pm 
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I think that the Italians,Spanish and French created a lot more of what we now know as Escrima. My own thoughts are that the indiginous peoples of the phillipines copied a heckuvalot from the Spanish. I have seen South American stick fighting and you would swear it was Escrima.even the Butterfly knife or Balisong is a French design..that's not to say that Fillipino martial arts haven't been developed by the people practising them and to a higher level, but Europe has a violent history.Ever wondered why the knife laws are so strict ..even in places like Scandinavia and Germany.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:12 am 
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hoshin wrote:
However I remember reading somewhere that the Romans and Greeks felt that slicing moves were not effective to kill in combat. They favored deep stabbing moves. In prison the terror factor of a guy completely covered in blood does send a scary message but I am wondering if the Romans were right that in true combat stabbing with direct true deadly intent is more effective. Anyone with more experience than I care to comment if this is true?


The Roman Legions, with their swords, were more flexible than the Greek Phalanx. That said, among both it mostly came down to stabbing. The Roman gladius is a poor slashing tool. European swords were influenced greatly by this, while in the East and among the Arabs curved swords continued to be favored. Romans were about utility, and you can kill a man much faster by stabbing him in the heart (or at least stop him faster by stabbing him in the belly) than by making his blood flow from twenty cuts. Armor played a key role in this, as western armor was undergoing constant improvement (well, more constant trial-and-error), while in the East, change was slow.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:17 pm 
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I like the knife. The older I get the more I depend on the knife for personal defense. The older I get the more I train with the knife because the training is easier on my body than my other martial skills. (this REALLY s*cks, but what can I say, I'm aging way too fast and my body breaks down easier than it used to)

I like watching knife videos. All of them. I just wish more of them were wider angled shots to show the knife fighters feet. Stance and movement is where it all starts, not with the blazing speed of the blade itself. (But that IS way more fun to watch)

As for the "stabbing vs slashing" thing, I don't think the two can be separated. It would be like separating blocking and punching in Karate. For me, personally, I prefer the slash over the stab. I'm better at it (main point, tactically) and I'm morally willing to accept it easier. I'd like to think I'd have no remorse plunging the knife deep if I was in danger, but I don't know if that's true. I'm more than likely kidding myself. However, I have no hesitation to slash. I don't know why that is, it just is. As for which is more sound tactically - I'd say it's a wash. Some slash strikes bleed like crazy.

I like knife instructors. I haven't come across one yet who doesn't know what he's doing. But they're like karate Instructors, they are all a little different. And we can learn from all of them. I prefer one who is associated with Law Enforcement in some way. I also prefer one who is skilled and experienced with firearms and has experience with the prison system. To me, those three things are important.

There are a few programs out there that are "edged weapons while grappling". They key on offense as well as defense, accessing and drawing your weapon in all grapple positions, and the various ways to use it tactically/legally. It's an easier program on the body than a grappling class, which I tire out in pretty quick these days. The next time one of these programs/seminars comes around, I'll post something about it here. It's nice people who have mad skills.

As for your weapon of choice, that's just what it is, YOUR weapon, YOUR choice. I like one that's tactically sound for me, but looks like something a boy scout would carry if I went to court. Because unless you run away and there's no cameras or witnesses, you KNOW you are going to court.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Great post Otto, and I agree.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:27 pm 
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As to personal weapons...this is my favorite...

Image

I can walk around with one in my jacket pocket with my hand around it and fire from the pocket without the gun jamming.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:56 am 
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We have one of those in .38SPC.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:45 am 
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A nice weapon that can be used at 'belly' distance when in your pocket.

The Kimber guardian angel pairs well with it.

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:57 pm 
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Hi Otto great post.
I love knife videos as well,I love watching people who can really move.not everyone can, but this guy is good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmgvuqbXYLQ


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:49 am 
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Knives scare the beejesus out of me. Machetes just make me want to run like hell.


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