Training is an agreement!

[Van Canna]

You must read this...

http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/defendi ... -knife-use

eJournal: How does defense with knives sit with juries?

MacYoung: Knives are a thug’s weapons. If you stab somebody and you stab him repeatedly, then you’re going to be the bad guy in their minds. It is really hard to get rid of that impression if you’ve gone “weed-whacker-of-death” on him. I can justify cutting and running a whole lot better.

Juries are also weary of people who take knife fighting classes to be better at 'knife fighting' for 'self defense'...think about what these two terms really say to a judge and jury.

There are no permits for carrying knives for self defense, as there are firearms concealed licenses issued by police.

Think of the reasons why.

[Van Canna]

If you use a knife in self defense,you will face charges of malice murder, felony murder, and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

Juries are repelled by an individual who uses a knife against another for any reason. Not so much as if a gun were to be used.

[Feur]

Great link Van and very true, the public perception is only evil people use a blade. I remember an esteemed police trainer telling us to carry cheap knives so you can find the will to toss them after use. People don't throw away expensive items they get attached to them.

He pointed out you can claim you panic-ed and didn't know what to do , but suggested if you turned your self in with the knife they would have all they need to lay charges.

He also suggested that if you did have to use a knife to try and never cut the face because the prosecutor with show up with 4 to 6 foot photo's of the wounds. I was surprised by his position but he felt that it was just best to respond to the threat, disappear and dispose of the weapon and say nothing. As a local politician use to suggest shoot shovel and shut up!

It's a strange world we live in.

I'm a proponent of coaching my witnesses if there are any, yelling things like stay away , I don't want to fight, I'll defend myself if I have too! please get away. Leave me alone, Don't hurt me! etc. All the time displaying open palms. When questioned the witness will remember I didn't want to fight and the other guy kept at me. when questioned about it they will also remember my open out stretched arms , they wouldn't remember any fighting posture only someone who was desperately trying to stay out of one.

This coaching may payoff in the court room it also lulls the attacker into a false sense of security they are not expecting you to respond when you are playing the perfect victim.

[Valkenar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 7nU4bG5uT4

[Van Canna]

Nice shot, Justin...those guys are indomitable fighters.

[Van Canna]

Good post Laird and right on the money.

Also, using a knife for 'self protection' can get one convicted of malicious mayhem that can bring life imprisonment.

So many of us on this forum and others are fond of talking about the zillions styles they have taken, the knife fighting seminars they have attended, the knife fighting techniques they practice on a daily basis, how tough they are or can be because of their presupposed knowledge and the way they train.

And yet, they still do not realize that they are playing right into the hands of a prosecutor, who will nail you to the 'internet cross' arguing you did all that just hoping to prove it on the street to dispel your paranoid insecurities…as he methodically goes about destroying your claim of self defense.

You use the knife on someone, it will be confiscated, your home, car…will also be searched and your collection also confiscated pending the outcome of the charges.

Photos of your collection will be used by the prosecution to show the jury you are some sort of a freak.

http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?op ... 7&Itemid=1

[Van Canna]

Now read this:

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the- ... of-the-gun

According to Gallup, 16 percent of American men carry knives for personal protection. I am quite sure that most of those men have not thought through the legal, ethical, and game-theoretical implications of drawing a blade in a moment of conflict. It is true that brandishing a weapon (whether a gun or a knife) sometimes preempts further violence. But, emotions being what they are, it often doesn’t—and the owner of the weapon can find himself resorting to deadly force in a circumstance that would not otherwise have called for it.

[Van Canna]

There has been an epidemic of knife attacks on schoolchildren in China in the past two years. As Fallows certainly knows—he is, after all, an expert on China—in some instances several children were murdered. In March of 2010, eight were killed and five injured in a single incident. This was as bad as many mass shootings in the U.S. I am not denying that guns are more efficient for killing people than knives are—but the truth is that knives are often lethal enough. And the only reliable way for one person to stop a man with a knife is to shoot him.

[Van Canna]

This is what we may be up against someday

I've got a buddy that used to be a cop, and he got into a fight one night with a guy who would kill a Deputy 4-5 months after my friend fought him. He dealt out one of the worst beating I have ever seen.

He got a call to a bar on this guy, that he had a gun and was causing trouble. My friend approached him with his model 65 in close contact position, and the guy immediately grabbed it. Every time he would grab for it, my buddy hit him with the gun.

The guy looked like hamburger when they brought him into the E.R., and the model 65's barrel was bent, and the trigger guard was bent into the trigger and it would not fire. Chunks of meat were in the gun--I saw it. I was working security that night at the hospital where they brought this guy. Mr. hamburger was a bodybuilding, huge guy with black belts in several martial arts and was one bad dude. The gun as a sap did a number on him.

As I said, 4-5 months later, this guy shot a Deputy multiple time during a traffic stop. The scumbag was shot himself 5 or 6 times with a .357 magnum--all torso hits. This puke then ran about 10 miles, broke into a trailer, took a hostage, and it was many hours later when he surrendered to SWAT.

My buddy always regretted that he did not kill him.

[Van Canna]

Te Marines' rules

Marine Corps Rules for Gun Fighting_
how to act in a gun fight:

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4."

[MarkNoble]

And let me make this point clear…on this forum…I will not allow Kyokushin or any other style to be criticized for any reason…we went through this garbage a few years back, with some of the jokers on this forum criticizing Uechi Ryu, but never jumping into the ring to face a Uechi fighter.

I know we have some Kyokushin practitioners looking at this forum, as we have had in the past, and I don't want them to think we are knocking their style.

It is a no brainer to realize that with the constant battering, which also includes full power kicks to the head, the Kyokushin fighter achieves pain thresholds that wouldn't be quickly negated by taking some punch to the face.
The reason why they do so well against Muay Thai fighters.

Thank you for this Sensei. I am currently training Kyokushin mainly because there is no Uechi dojo where I currently live. The style definitely has its ups and downs with good conditioning, high pain-threshold training, and general cardiovascular training being among the pros.

The biggest shortcoming of KK is probably the no face punches rule because it changes the general strategy under which you train - i.e. you essentially stand in front of each other and trade punches not really needing to protect your face from punches (although you do have to worry about headkicks). Obviously, the head/chin cannot be conditioned in the same way as other parts of the body and this tendency to stand and trade without protecting your face could result in bad habits that would leave one vulnerable in a streetfight.

Kyokushin practitioners have triumphed over Thai boxers when they were fighting under Kyokushin rules. However, the early waves of KK fighters who went to Thailand to fight under Thai boxing rules quickly learned the limitation of their style so they started to supplement their KK training with Western Boxing to better deal with the hands of the Thai fighters. The result was a very effective kickboxing style used by George St. Pierre, Andy Hug, Francisco Filho, Everton Teixera, etc..

On a point of interest, I walked into the change room after one of our recent classes and there was a discussion about Uechi Ryu. Some of the guys were not familiar with the style but others who knew the style were commenting on the remarkable toughness of Uechi fighters. Personally, I think Uechi has some of the best hand techniques in the Karate world and I'm disappointed that I can't train in it at the moment.

[Van Canna]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the post.
You are doing well to take such a formidable style.

My question is that since KK also has kata with high blocks, as well as middle and low blocks…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rock1v3ywcM

Does its practice also include prearranged kumites where head punches are blocked as in the kata, along with such high blocks used for head kicks?

If such a kumite exists, then I would say that some blocking skills for head punches would be ingrained.

Take Uechi Ryu, for example, we have a prearranged Dan rank kumite, where no head punches are thrown either, with the exception of no 6 where an overhand punch is thrown, but pre-empted, before the takedown.

Yet we do fairly well against head punches because of the ingraining of the wauke [circular] trapping technique in our kata, and we do practice a number of head shots in our Hojo Undo exercises and katas.

Both formidable styles because of the body/limb conditioning…Uechi being my preferred one because of the pointed strikes we condition to deliver with hands and feet.

Two questions:
1. Do you personally feel you would be unable to throw a head punch in a fight because of your training to punch the body?

2. Do you personally feel you would not be able to block/intercept/defend against a head punch?

~~

What does your sensei say regarding this 'limitations' of punches to the body, as impacting on self defense ability against a face punch on the street?

[Van Canna]

The average jury consists of mouth-breathing morons who would rather be home watching WWF, Oprah, porno, or Ben Stiller. In court, making the argument requires $$. Regardless of right or wrong, deep pockets usually win, and/or the most "disadvantaged" party in the engagement.

Bottom line: Whatever you use in a shooting, you should be willing to lose it. Know that, except in the rarest circumstances, if you aren't prosecuted in criminal court, you will be in civil. If those don't set well with you, move to the country, and raise hogs. Always, "ya' do what ya' gotta do"- deal with the consequences later. But do be aware of what they are likely to be.

Suarez intnl

[MarkNoble]

Does its practice also include prearranged kumites where head punches are blocked as in the kata, along with such high blocks used for head kicks?

Two questions:
1. Do you personally feel you would be unable to throw a head punch in a fight because of your training to punch the body?

2. Do you personally feel you would not be able to block/intercept/defend against a head punch?

~~

What does your sensei say regarding this 'limitations' of punches to the body, as impacting on self defense ability against a face punch on the street?

1) I haven't seen any prearranged kumites, but we have done drills (bunkai) where a straight punch to the face is blocked or alternatively a straight counter punch is thrown to the face (but for the purpose of the drill aimed to the side of the head so that we can get full extension on the punch without actually connecting). I have to say though that these drills constitute about 5% of our time in training. Much more time is spent on kihon, kata, hitting pads, and light-hard sparring with no punches to the head.

2) I feel that I would be able to throw a head punch and...,

3) I could possibly intercept a head punch but... the part of it that I'm uncomfortable with is that we spend the majority of our time (even in training) under the assumption that our faces are safe and we don't have to worry about being punched there. This leads to something of a stand square in front of your opponent and trade fighting strategy/style that might be difficult to instinctively undo in a real fight. I think taking punches to the face is a game-changer and therefore, boxers (of all types) are better at protecting their heads.

4) Good question, I actually haven't asked but I'll try to ask tonight and get back to you with the answer. I'll also ask some of the other senpai's and brown belts for their opinions. Our Shihan (the main sensei) is a 74-year-old former pupil of Mas Oyama himself so it's possible that he could have some of the "Kyokushin is King" mentality.

On another note, I don't like the hard blocks in KK that come from Shotokan. I much prefer the softer circular deflection blocks that come from Goju Ryu and are closer to the Uechi blocks.

[Van Canna]

Good post, Mark...thanks.