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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:41 pm 
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http://www.killology.com/gitarticle.htm

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Grossman also explained the differences between playing a violent video game and playing with toy weapons. "The AMA [American Medical Association] has not proven toy guns to be a major factor in youth violence," he said, and added that with toy weapons, actually hurting someone was always punished by a parent or adult.


What do we make of this?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:50 pm 
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I also agree with the AMA that playing with toy guns does nor raise 'killers'...
We need to look at the individual child's growing pains.

But, given the school children massacres and terrorist activities, the public at large has come to certain perceptions of people with 'assault weapons' _

So If I owned a store to make a living, I would not place the AK-47 sign in the window...a rifle associated with terrorist activities, what I meant by 'not being sensible'_ in my view.

It might well turn away a number of potential customers.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:26 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:
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Post blast response is an entirely different topic but I would like to press upon you the need for uniformed officers to get combat casualty training and to carry a tourniquet, and combat gauze on duty at all times.

The Boston bombing occurred when the runners had a large amount of medical support staff already on hand volunteering with the marathon. If this type of bombing would have occurred outside a stadium or in a crowded mall, you cops will need to triage victims with amputations and massive hemorrhage.
Great series of posts on IED's Van. We all have lost people to this war of cowards. Tough to deploy into a guerrilla war where the enemy never reveals. Tougher still to have the war of cowards washing up on your home turf. You folks are in my daily prayers!

When we hit the range or go for a hunt we carry a trauma kit. Kit includes a couple of battle dressings, some hemostats to stuff them into gaping wounds, clotting chemicals and tourniquet kits. All police officers should be equipped the same. It might be used to save a bystander it might be used to save you!

When I was a young lad we carried our own personal kit in the military. We were told don't use it to treat anyone else, this is to keep you alive. If one of your buddies gets hit he will have his own kit use that one. If he doesn't carry one he's decide to die...let him. Everyone carried their kit!

Would be good if the officers had a few kits in the trunk and could provide basic first aid until the pro's arrive. However if the threat is still in the area their primary objective would be to engage and arrest or eliminate the threat to public safety.

As the terrorist threat escalates on our shores I suspect all personnel will be tasked with a varied menu of new responsibilities. Providing aid is obvious, litigation laws in the nation with have to adapt to the dynamic battlefield otherwise no one will rise to the challenge only to lose in court.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:59 am 
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When we hit the range or go for a hunt we carry a trauma kit. Kit includes a couple of battle dressings, some hemostats to stuff them into gaping wounds, clotting chemicals and tourniquet kits.


Good advice, Laird. But wouldn't the person need some sort of training to know how to use those components?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:06 am 
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Feur wrote:
Mark every kid I played with growing up in Canada played with toy guns before getting real ones. None of them have gone off the deep end! Islamic extremism, political extremism and mental health issues are not a result of toys.


I don't know anyone from my childhood who went on to buy a real gun. But then, Alberta is the Wild West of Canada and the province in which the worst massacre of Canadian police officers occurred back in 2005...coincidence?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/200 ... 50303.html

I'll concede though that playing with toy guns doesn't necessarily turn someone into a trigger happy radical.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:50 am 
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A couple of studies...

Journal of Experimental Child Psychology

Volume 21, Issue 2, April 1976, Pages 303–315
Cover image
Effects of toy guns and airplanes on children's antisocial free play behavior

Charles W TurnerCorresponding author contact information,
Diane Goldsmith

University of Utah USA

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0022-0965(76)90044-8, How to Cite or Link Using DOI

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Abstract

The effects of toy guns and toy airplanes on children's antisocial (aggression and rule-breaking) behavior was investigated in two settings (ten children in Study I and 13 in Study II) during 30-min free play sessions. Four-and 5-year-old children were observed during 15–16 free play sessions. During some sessions the children played either with (novel, aggressive) toy guns or with (novel, nonaggressive) toy airplanes in addition to their usual toys. In both studies, the toy guns treatment produced a reliably higher rate of antisocial behavior than the average of the toy airplaines and the usual toys. The novel-nonaggressive toy airplanes also increased the rate of antisocial behavior as compared to usual toys in Study II. The results were related primarily to Berkowitz's and Bandura's analyses of aggressive behavior, but they were related also to other theoretical models which predict stimulus control of behavior.



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Article

Gun Violence Among Youth and the Pediatrician's Role in Primary Prevention

Daniel W. Webster,
Modena E. H. Wilson

+ Author Affiliations

Center for Injury Research and Policy, School of Hygiene and Public Health
Center for Injury Research and Policy, School of Hygiene and Public Health, Department of Pediatrics, School of Medicine, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

Abstract

Adolescence is a developmental stage characterized by high rates of violent behavior. Increasingly, violent injury is involving preadolescent children. Evidence suggests that the availability of guns increases the lethality of violent acts. Because guns are ubiquitous in the United States and integral to the current epidemic of youth violence, pediatricians should participate in primary prevention of firearm injuries. Efforts should begin long before children reach adolescence. Pediatricians should: (1) Encourage parents to remove guns from the home, or at a minimum to keep guns unloaded and locked up; (2) Advise parents to limit viewing of gun violence in the media, and playing with toy guns and video games that involve shooting (3) Be alert for early indicators of aggressive behavior; and (4) Become outspoken advocates for laws that restrict gun availability.

Copyright © 1994 by the American Academy of Pediatrics


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:44 am 
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There is enough here to keep this thread going forever. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:53 am 
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If you cant stay away from things that go boom,try to get behind/under some type of cover besides what you are wearing on your body,keep your mouth open to lessen the effects of overpressure,and Pray that you are far enough away from whatever is going boom that you can get farther away before anything else goes boom.

One other thing that has been taught is that , if you must dive or lay down and cannot get far enough away from the blast, lie on your stomach with your feet pointed towards the blast area, crossed at the ankles, and cover your head with your hands.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:02 am 
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"Disregard those who attempt to Disarm you, they will not be there to take care of your family after you pass on."

This applies in Bagdad or in Boston! Well said!!

The only way to fight terrorists or guerilla warfare is to be prepared on your end. Because you never know where or when they will strike. Just be prepared to defend yourself and strike back. The only one you can count on to save you and yours is YOU!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:59 am 
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And the nonsense begins, its a lack of values morals and self responsibility

Children need guidance love and positive example and consequence, they need to be raised to have character and not strive to be a character....

This shift the blame to toys garbage is nice thought, wouldn't it be nice if it was so
Simple.

I do think theres a perversity amoungst some regarding video games, toy and real weapons , and all sorts of stuff Id consider just twisted , but society is to blame for being so dismissive and accepting , instead of inclusive and judging .

But this is the intent not the tool , it is a deflection of a much bigger issue. Wheres the guidance.....

no good hiding kids from violence thay will be exposed to the media , make sure they have a healthy understanding relationship with what the good guys do, and who the good guys are. And how you conduct yourself and your responsibilitys and how you be one ..... what age should that start?

if they want to play cop or soldier , maybe that will reinforce it , maybe we get taught whats appropriate from play and learn social skills there too..... I would never of pointed a toy gun at an adult , or anyone who wasnt playing , usually it was the imaginary bad guys ......


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I don't know anyone from my childhood who went on to buy a real gun. But then, Alberta is the Wild West of Canada and the province in which the worst massacre of Canadian police officers occurred back in 2005...coincidence?


as for Alberta........ Guess there was never any terrorisim out of Quebec eh


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:40 am 
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I actually thought if we were going to have a discussion about those pos bombers, it would be how martial arts built no character in them.

Don't believe for a second folks won't point at that as quickly as a toy gun debate


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:09 am 
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MarkNoble wrote:
Feur wrote:
Mark every kid I played with growing up in Canada played with toy guns before getting real ones. None of them have gone off the deep end! Islamic extremism, political extremism and mental health issues are not a result of toys.


I don't know anyone from my childhood who went on to buy a real gun. But then, Alberta is the Wild West of Canada and the province in which the worst massacre of Canadian police officers occurred back in 2005...coincidence?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/200 ... 50303.html

I'll concede though that playing with toy guns doesn't necessarily turn someone into a trigger happy radical.
Mark I'm going to suggest if you keep posting this sort of insulting drivel that you best find a new playground to play in. Your making some rather large assumptions here son and your painting lots of people with a rather large paint brush.. Your leftist Quebec antigun mentality is showing.

Allow me to tell you a wee bit about my self so you know who your dealing with. I'm not a native of Western Canada. I was born in New Brunswick. I spent the early years of my life as a member a subsistence hunting trapping family in Ontario. The early years of my life if you didn't shoot it you didn't eat. If you didn't grow it you didn't eat. We were the water department the sewer department and the energy department. 5 months of the year there was no access to roads or trains. No stores no help nothing. You were responsible for you. If you didn't do it it didn't get done.

My father and most of the family served in the military. I bounced back and forth between military bases and the trap line in my early years. I got too learn the traditional life style living with the grandparents. But eventually I was to grow up living on military bases as my father got transferred province to province and country to country. He served 38 years in total including WW2. Actually from my grandfather down to myself we've racked up 236 years of military service.

To say that I'm a bush bunny with a military background and an interest in hunting and martial arts might be might be an accurate statement. I have lived in damn near every province in this nation. We have many unique cultures too bad you didn't get out more mark you might find out you live in a kick ass country full or great peoples and unique regions.

I've been tinkering with Uechi-ryu since the seventies, trained some judo, boxed, kick boxed, and explored impact and edged weapons. Started a BJJ club and a Uechi club in Banff. I have been active in IPSC and IDPA competition. Have competed in pistol, revolver and multigun/3 gun course of fire. I'm a certified range office. The crown invested vasts amount of tax dollars to teach me to handle firearms. It was good training, but I had already received most of the training from my family, when many children were playing with plastic ones I was already harvesting meat for the family.


Presently involved with a group that is in discussions in regards teaching tactical carbine courses with the police, their training is lacking! Also in discussions with another force concerning weapon retention training.

I'm sick of Ass hats from Quebec trying portray Albertan/westerners as red neck yahoos. Get you head out of your arse you got a point to say make it but do it without showing your prejudice or arrogance.

If I had not been born on the land or if I had not served I would have still be drawn to training with firearms it's part of the force continuum, a natural progression for a martial artist.. If your not comfortable escalating force then your just the next victim in waiting.The police won't save your bacon you are responsible for you.

Mark you and I are very different, you don't know anyone who replaced his toy gun with a real one. I think by the time I was 8 i don't think I new a kid who didn't have both. I remember taking shot guns to school in NS so we could go rabbit hunting after school.

Your suggestion that Alberta is a gun totting community full of dangerous nut jobs because one criminal shot 4 offices is flawed! By the same logic, we should stop education folks in Quebec because the keep shooting dozens of students. Better get rid of government in Quebec too as I believe their was a mass shooting their too. Give your head a shake your brain is stuck in neutral.

Mark tell me about yourself all I know is you do Kyokushin, hate guns and westerners. Anything else you want to share?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:
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When we hit the range or go for a hunt we carry a trauma kit. Kit includes a couple of battle dressings, some hemostats to stuff them into gaping wounds, clotting chemicals and tourniquet kits.


Good advice, Laird. But wouldn't the person need some sort of training to know how to use those components?
Got a bit of training courtesy of the queen, but it's pretty basic first aid, pour in the clotting agent pack the hole with a dressing, keep pressure on the wound site, apply tourniquet to limb to control bleeding realize it every 5 minutes so you don't kill the flesh. Continue until air evac or ambulance arrive. I personally believe anyone handling firearms should get the training and carry the gear, it isn't heavy.

In this day and age even a hunter injured in the mountains is not far from the hospital. Spot gps can send out a "rescue me" signal. Help is never as far away as we think it is. The Gps functions as a rescue beacon. Fall and break a leg, accidentally shot your self you don't have to lay there and feed the bears. The goal is to treat the injured until the professionals arrive on scene. In most cases that's control the bleeding.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:22 pm 
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Feur, perhaps our different outlooks are as much a product of the urban versus rural mentality as it is an East vs. West thing. When you wrote that all of your friends went on to buy real guns, I wasn't considering gun ownership as part of a hunter/trapper/fisherman subsistence. The image that I had was rather of a group of recreational gun-lovers. I have seen representatives of the latter group before, more so in the US than in Canada.

You wanted to know more about me... well I'm not originally from Quebec and I do not consider myself a leftist. Politically, I'm more of a centrist with the viewpoint that both the right and the left have some good ideas and some terrible ones as well. Like yourself, I'm from Ontario and spent most of my life in Toronto although I have spent some time in smaller towns (the most being 2 years in Guelph). I originally came to Montreal for graduate school, found a job, and I have stayed for a while although this may change in the future. The best paying jobs in my field of industrial hygiene are actually out in places like Fort McMurray, which are unfortunately, not very appealing to those raised in the urban milieu.

Back to the issue of firearms, I have not seen a good argument for why anyone other than police, military, or in your case career-hunters, should be carrying them. In Toronto they're used in gang shootings, in Montreal they have been used in school/spree shootings. So I have a very tough time sympathizing with someone who wants to hoard guns and/or raise their kids on them just because its part of the culture.

I do not hate Westerners as you put it. I have had friends from Calgary and Edmonton. However, as much as Quebec is a socialist province, Alberta is a conservative one with a large pro-gun lobby. N'est-ce pas?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:19 pm 
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I would like to also add that in my view, the issue of kids playing with guns and gun-ownership is distinct from externally-driven terrorist activity as now appears to have been the case in the Boston attacks.

It is however relevant to cases such as the recent school-shooting in Connecticut.


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