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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:27 pm 
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That's nothing, didn't even make the papers.............they are a very minor group. Now if you wanted to see a demonstrationm you should have seen the million people protesting against the illegal war in Iraq


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm 
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I guess some people see what they want to see.

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:14 pm 
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I can understand the people's frustration towards muslims following the various attacks in recent years. Looking at that Wikipedia link that Laird posted, it seems that in the UK, Islamic groups picked up where the IRA left off around 2007.

Those groups like the English Defence League and Newcastle Unites are a bit unsettling though. My immediate impression of them was that they're a cross between soccer/football hooligans and skinheads with a political slant.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:40 pm 
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They are nothing Mark, like the British National Party. They get nowhere in elections and their demonstrations fizzle out, it's just the newspapers ( and not the major ones) trying to sell papers


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:27 pm 
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jorvik wrote:
They are nothing Mark, like the British National Party. They get nowhere in elections and their demonstrations fizzle out, it's just the newspapers ( and not the major ones) trying to sell papers
Ha! Mark I thought the image smacked of footie holigans too! Ray's got a point, the news business is a bit different over there. :mrgreen:

http://worldnews.about.com/od/7/qt/britishtabs.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ne ... irculation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_%2 ... Kingdom%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid_%2 ... _format%29

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... h-tabloids

So print journalists should be taken with a grain of salt when reading from the rags in the UK. Just like words you read in the press in North America also must be filtered thru a reality filter as most words in print these days are written to drive a political posture. There was a day when journalism was a noble profession and those working in the trade rooted out and presented the facts and let the reader form an opinion.

Today many journalists tend to be spin doctors promoting agenda driven drivel. Articles are now presented to force feed you a position instead of positioning you to make an informed decision. It's no longer a noble profession, they are spin doctors employed by those who dictate the position to sell.

The British version is more entertaining. :?

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Now I'd not claim it's nothing, lots of folks read it, there has to be some converts. Press or no press as long as we have Islamic murders we will see a rise in anti Islamic feelings. You get any group stepping over the line and committing crime and there will be a back lash from the other segment of society!

Meanwhile in Canada, regional terrorist campaigns and these newer Islamic attacks are building serious social divides. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Canada

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Mob mentality means that anytime you get 1500 angry folks marching it is never nothing

Clear escalation is potential, folks word of the hour is radicalization.

If the foiled bombing of their march succeeded a little while back, how many martyrs and radicals would of been created

The reality it's the majority being terrorized by the few of both sides

The apologists will continue to try justify their reasoning, and I suspect they'll try ban something to prevent it all


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:21 am 
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Well I'm a political atheist I don't believe the right or the left. firstly you have to realise that the papers do have an agenda even above selling newspapers or what they report on TV. they basically report for the bigotted and the stupid and re inforce the beliefs that they have or want to have, and if you repeat a lie often enough, even to the point of ridiculousness some folks will believe it, ( weapons of mass destruction, ties to al qaeda) .......................... and some folks just won't ask questions ever . look at the Boston bombings...the Chenchens were supported by the US, why on earth would they wish to bomb them???..and more importantly why hasn't anyone had the sense to ask this?.and of course the suspects are dead :roll:

Now if you look to what happened in London. The first thing that you have to realise is that different nations have different psyches and different cultures...and also different histories.
I grew up when the troubles where happenening in Northern Ireland, when the IRA waged war against England.........and belief me it was nothing like what has happened with the occaisional attacks that we have had from " Radicals"......which makes me believe that this is not an orchestrated campaign or threat of the same magnitutde.ok to some who have never experienced it , it may seem the same way.but to those who have, the attacks we have now are ill thought out, badly planned and not part of an overall plan.......and some of them are very questionable, as I said about the Chechen business and if you check on the London killer you will find that the authorities knew about him, even apparantly tried to recruit him............and yet he was allowed to walk around freely :evil:
Sadly in these troubled times I quesion the governments motives just as much as the people who threaten us


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:06 am 
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jorvik wrote:
and some folks just won't ask questions ever . look at the Boston bombings...the Chenchens were supported by the US, why on earth would they wish to bomb them???..and more importantly why hasn't anyone had the sense to ask this?.and of course the suspects are dead :roll:


And some people have had answers to their questions spoonfed to them, but you can't make them swallow.

The only thing anyone needs to realize is that countries may differ, but people never change.

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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:
Nice list, Laird...what's to learn from it...and what do you think the Brits learned from it?
Van I thing the British learned lots from their own going exposure to terrorists. We must remember that Britain has had problems with uprisings in many of it's colonies over the centuries around this world. They have had much experience in dealing with rebellion, terrorist tactics and guerrilla warfare. They have had a great deal of exposure to it.

The home list of incidents I posted does not reach far back in to the past history of these sort of events. They have been going on for centuries, at home, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes , and abroad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Uprising .The empire over the centuries have control significant portions of most continents. This control was not handed back freely in most cases.


I think Britain learned a great deal about patrolling urban streets and house clearing during their deployment in Ireland. In fact I would suggest the British army was instrumental in laying out the ground work for many of the methods utilized and trained by many military forces today.

I believe Britain has always had a strong intelligences service. They have not been idle and are very focused on domestic threats. Marcus posted a link on the numbers of incidents prevented and the number of suspects in detention.

I believe all those cameras on every street corner are there to deter more than soccer hooligans! It's tough to not be caught on film from what I've read. I suspect some of those in detention in the UK sit in cells today because they were observed on film at some point. Interesting enough I understand the Boston bombers were identified by the same method. There is much sharing of methodology's and information in this global fight on terror.

~Laird

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Quote
"I believe all those cameras on every street corner are there to deter more than soccer hooligans! It's tough to not be caught on film from what I've read. I suspect some of those in detention in the UK sit in cells today because they were observed on film at some point. Interesting enough I understand the Boston bombers were identified by the same method. There is much sharing of methodology's and information in this global fight on terror."

CCTV cameras are not as good as you might suppose, sometimes it is very hard to identify anyone on them. they are usefull in directing police to an incident. Usually the police CCTV are high up on large lamposts in the city centre ,and can be used for traffic control as much as anything else.
When an incident does occur the police will ask for the CCTV in local stores or clubs etc, where their use is widespread, so it's not just a " police state" type of thing, although that is a worry.it is also private companies using them as well to detect shoplifters, acts of violence etc, even theft in public houses by employees and they will be shown in court as evidence or prior to the case, will be served on the defence lawyers as evidence.
One of the things that used to take place was " Facial profiling" this was when you could only capture part of accused's features from behind or slightly side on, on camera. This was very expensive.

Quote
"global fight on terror."
I really don't think that there is one, and I'm sure people in the UK don't believe it either. Having lived through the troubles in Northern Iresland where a member of the royal family was murdered, Manchester, London and Warrington all had huge bomb explosions..the occaisional badly planned attack by a few Islamic extremists doesn't really come into the same category, plus there are the lies reported by the press such as the " Ricin affair"...and we all know the lies of our own governments and that the only ones with weapons of mass destruction and ties to al qaeda are the US government :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:40 am 
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Feur wrote:
Van I thing the British learned lots from their own going exposure to terrorists. We must remember that Britain has had problems with uprisings in many of it's colonies over the centuries around this world. They have had much experience in dealing with rebellion, terrorist tactics and guerrilla warfare. They have had a great deal of exposure to it.


From what history I've read, I don't think the British have shown that they've learned much of anything about dealing with guerilla warfare. This latest book I'm reading is cementing that judgment fairly well.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:17 am 
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Here is an article from police one that also fits in with the civilian segment:

http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety ... ft-target/

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:20 am 
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Quote:
Soft Targets Advertise

A soft target is a tactical term referring to an unarmed or undefended position or target. A soft target can be a structure, automobile, school, mall, or an assembly of people.

The spectators at the Boston Marathon were soft targets. The moviegoers at the Aurora movie theatre were soft targets. Police officers sitting in police cars with “low situational awareness” have been soft targets. Off-duty officers wearing swag that displays the last police training school they attended or displaying a popular brand of police equipment they favor can be a soft target.

The off-duty British military soldier was wearing a T-shirt displaying a “Help for Heroes” logo and carrying a military rucksack. He was a soft target.

Avoid making yourself a soft target — that’s the first step.

Traditionally a terrorist would survey a soft target’s residence, route to work, favorite pubs, and any other predictable habits.

He will target the attack at the softest target in your routine. This may be a choke point that allows them for a quick escape. Undercover Narcs have known this forever and go through a great deal of effort to avoid detection.

The London attack, however, just revealed a serious problem. The terrorist may have picked a location that was soft but instead of a quick escape — they waited around the scene for a half hour, talking with witnesses — because they wanted maximum exposure from a media source. That means they were willing to battle anywhere regardless of the outcome.

Similarities in terrorist planning have become obvious from the perspective of the lone-wolf Jihadist or the small-cell extremist attacks. Consider these six points as you develop your defense.

1.) The terrorist will first select or identify a vulnerable soft target.
2.) The terrorist will determine the method of attack.
3.) They will conduct detailed surveillance of the target to measure security forces.
4.) They will assess target vulnerability and select the site or move on to another.
5.) After site selection, a second round of surveillance will be conducted.
6.) Finally, the operation will be scheduled and the attack conducted.

Do not encourage a terrorist attack by becoming a soft target. The most effective way to avoid indicating as a soft target is to remain in a high level of situational awareness. The sad truth today is that walking down a street on the way to a ballgame in a downtown setting may place you in the middle of a battle space in a split second.

Your ability to recognize and perceive potential threats while going about routine activities while on or off duty will make the difference.

Don’t deny your gut feelings. As we all know, most good arrests on the streets come from a gut feeling or intuition and then most importantly, acting upon that feeling or suspicion. Situational awareness and the apparent readiness of that person indicate whether or not they are a hard target or soft target.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:28 am 
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Here's another article that can also benefit civilians:


http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety ... rformance/

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