Real Training

Sensei Canna offers insight into the real world of self defense!

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Re: Real Training

Postby Van Canna » Sat May 25, 2013 10:58 pm

finger loops are fun work , I built up to shoken pullups at one stage


That's really amazing, Stryke. 8O
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Re: Real Training

Postby Stryke » Sat May 25, 2013 11:20 pm

its just incremental Van , working down through the fingers four three two one

More a trick and to see if I could than a recommendation, we have more potential than we allow ourselves sometimes IMHO
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Re: Real Training

Postby Van Canna » Sun May 26, 2013 3:44 am

Still, that's lots of strength to be able to do even one such pull-up.

That would translate into a shoken of doom :D
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Re: Real Training

Postby MarkNoble » Sun May 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Feur wrote:Personally I mostly hit the makiwara and swing club bells. (I do not punch the makiwara I condition my forearms,elbows, boshiken and my shins on it.)


Have you also trained with kettlebells? If so, what differences have you noticed between them and club bells in terms of the effects on your body?

I wonder why club bells have not yet achieved the popularity of kettlebells in North America. Is it just better marketing from the kettlebell folks?
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Re: Real Training

Postby MarkNoble » Sun May 26, 2013 7:35 pm

Feur wrote:Finger tip push ups are good. Some do them on the thumb knuckle and index finger only.


At the moment, I can only do full hand finger pushups but I hope to progress towards using less fingers. I found instructional a while ago on building up to using the shoken.

http://martialartsplanet.com/forums/sho ... hp?t=95648

Do you Uechi folks have a similar strengthening regimen for that strike?

Feur wrote:Personally I mostly hit the makiwara and swing club bells. (I do not punch the makiwara I condition my forearms,elbows, boshiken and my shins on it.)


Have you also trained with kettlebells? If so, what differences have you noticed between them and club bells in terms of the effects on your body?

I wonder why club bells have not yet achieved the popularity of kettlebells in North America. Is it just better marketing from the kettlebell folks?
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Re: Real Training

Postby Otto » Mon May 27, 2013 4:46 pm

Kettlebells are great. Weights are great. Those damn Okinawan Jars are great. (man, do I hate those suckers) Pushups are great.

All of those things are great if you do them a lot. But, in my opinion, it's not the implements nor the numbers that do it. (True, the numbers help a great deal) It's not even the physical strength gained from these exercises. It's the will you build - because they are hard core exercises and they really ****** to do, especially over and over. It's that will, attitude, heart and just plain nastiness you develop long after your hands and arms have recovered from the pain and the shakes. It's that will that my opponent is going to have to deal with. Good luck to him, he's going to need it.

Going to class, or teaching class, or training on your own - when you just don't damn well feel like it....to me, that's what gives one the ability to fight.

As for boxing compared to Karate - it's always an age old discussion. I've done both for a long time. Been beat up by both kinds of practitioners. Can't say which is better, which hurts more or which is more practical. Personally, I'll take Karate every time. (And if I had a nickel for every time I swept a boxer's feet out from under him, I'd have a whole lot of damn nickels.) I know, I know, we're comparing punching, not the whole package. I'll still take Karate. But I guess that's because I'm a Karate man.

One other thing.....in emergency rooms across the country, it's called a boxer's fracture, not a Karate fracture.
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Re: Real Training

Postby Jason Rees » Mon May 27, 2013 7:10 pm

In climbing gyms there are always Apparatus for doing finger pull-ups, with gradually less and less surface to work with.
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Re: Real Training

Postby jorvik » Mon May 27, 2013 8:37 pm

Mark's clips were interesting because it showed the " phoenix eye fist", and how to develop it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... K1kjj7ib00

now what interests me is , is this the same strike as a " Shoken" or do they use different striking areas ?.............out of interest I also posted something on " White Eyebrow " a while back which showed the same thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e48uO6f1CoI

but this guy ( look at 7:17) says that you use the tip of the knuckle to strike, so even two Chinese stylists disagree on the correct method
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Re: Real Training

Postby hoshin » Wed May 29, 2013 12:44 am

i belive they are all one and the same, but i am not a traditional kung fu guy. Bob Campbell was at summer camp some years ago and showed the variation of hitting with the flat rather then the tip point. it had a slight whip action to it. now i have modified it for myself by adding something i learnt from Jim Maloney about the dynamics of a guy throwing a base ball. so i would likenmy version to throwing my fist and letting the wrist flex at the end and snap the flat of the shoken finger in and let it dig in. primary target is side of the neck.
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Re: Real Training

Postby Van Canna » Wed May 29, 2013 4:38 am

You have that right Hoshin.

I think we should think of the Shoken as a very versatile weapon of many applications as you point out.

Though in Uechi kata we see the targeting under the heart, for example, even a better target, one of my favorites, is the Throat [as opposed to the side of the neck] _as dangerous a strike as it can be in a fight with dire consequences possible.
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Re: Real Training

Postby Stryke » Wed May 29, 2013 5:11 am

I think variations quite normal , some folks hands are different and I`ve found that the conditioning adjusts the technique as much as the technique adjusts the conditioning.

I Personally use the Shoken like a claw or knife and find ripping or slicing with it a circular action of the penetration works best for me , but I've got a lot further to go with it yet , really enjoyed the clip.
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Re: Real Training

Postby Stryke » Wed May 29, 2013 5:53 am

All of those things are great if you do them a lot. But, in my opinion, it's not the implements nor the numbers that do it. (True, the numbers help a great deal) It's not even the physical strength gained from these exercises. It's the will you build - because they are hard core exercises and they really ****** to do, especially over and over. It's that will, attitude, heart and just plain nastiness you develop long after your hands and arms have recovered from the pain and the shakes. It's that will that my opponent is going to have to deal with. Good luck to him, he's going to need it.


Otto knows how to make me smile :)

often that discussion comes up how you grow intent , how you build will

you do it by demanding it , deserving it , pushing yourself and not giving in to the terrible toos

too tired , too busy , too hard ......

by the time you've beaten that down , pretty good chance you can lay a beat down
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Re: Real Training

Postby jorvik » Wed May 29, 2013 2:28 pm

With martial arts if you do it a lot, over time you forget how good you are becoming, it just becomes something that you do. If you compare it with other things that you do then you can get some idea. I used to play guitar when I was younger and although I seldom play now or even practice I can still pick the guitar up and play music that can impress people who don't play.so I guess it's the same with martial arts, after a time it becomes yours and though you may lose some aspects of it, you never lose it all and some times it changes and becomes something different to what you started.
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