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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:40 am 
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An article about an app that makes it easier to boycott Monsanto

http://www.realfarmacy.com/new-app-lets ... ping-cart/

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Buycott App wrote:
Deciding to add that campaign to your Buycott app might make buying your breakfast nearly impossible, as that list includes not just headline grabbers like agricultural giant Monsanto but just about every big consumer company with a presence in the supermarket aisle: Coca-Cola, Nestle, Kraft, Heinz, Kellogg’s, Unilever and more.

Indeed. Good luck with all that.

It's like trying to "buy American." Apple designs a product and then has it built in disturbingly oppressive workerbee colonies deep in China. Ford uses parts for its engines that come from around the globe, and can change the components at their whim at any point in time. Everyone is paying for everyone else's patents, and there are some things which only a few suppliers can produce. Back in the day, only two companies made VCR machines. Other companies put their label on top.

Trust me... I work in the corporate world. We intentionally make our processes modular so that our vendors can compete to play with us. That's part of what it takes to keep prices low and quality high. The lay of the land today may not be the lay of the land tomorrow, and that can change in an instant. If you've ever worked on the engine of your car or the guts of your computer, you'd know that. OEM changes. Non-OEM parts are sometimes better, sometimes worse, and sometimes the same.

And finally... there's always someone like me who intentionally will buy a product because the company that made it supports GMO. Given my previous examples, you'll see why. It *will* happen and it needs to happen. What we want is for it to happen in a safe and ethical way. That takes involvement - especially from people like Justin and Glenn. For all we know, I may be drinking too much of the Kool-Aid.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:30 am 
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Canadian seal meat it's 100% natural, :D Boycott GMF eat seal!

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Flipper Pie!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:31 am 
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Quote:
Deciding to add that campaign to your Buycott app might make buying your breakfast nearly impossible, as that list includes not just headline grabbers like agricultural giant Monsanto but just about every big consumer company with a presence in the supermarket aisle: Coca-Cola, Nestle, Kraft, Heinz, Kellogg’s, Unilever and more.


And how many of those companies sell food , or do they sell the processing of food into food like products?

where's the whole food

GMO is an interesting thing , and I think consumers should know what there buying, and I suspect its just about making it cheaper ,more quantity over quality , feed the masses.....

but the big food issues aren't GMO , its processing and empty calories , saturated fats , refined sugars , high fructose corn syrup etc......

I predict more people will continue to be destroyed by diabetes , obesity , and general poor health from a socially normal diet than GMO food.

Having said that, the whole recognisable food you should be able to trust being treated like every other processed item out there is a concern. Are genetics just ingredients?

Control your own diet , vote with your wallet and spread the world ....

garbage in , garbage out


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Intelligent response to potentially devastating problem Marcus.

How a scientist like Bill, who brags about his superior diet, that keeps him healthy, slim and dynamic, can pretend he doesn't find any fault with fellow scientist who have sold out to the money making machines selling cheap modified foods to the poor, under the pretense that they are really humanitarians, feeding the masses.

Meanwhile, these same scientists, who are sufficiently wealthy to shop at organic markets and feed their families healthy foods at home complain how their children sneak Big Macs whenever possible and are addicted to the additives in these foods. . . just like the poor masses.

Ever wonder why it is possible for the sleazy lawyers to become so wealthy suing drug manufacturers for selling "Bad Drugs"? Wonder if Bill will fault these drug manufacturers for not doing "due diligence" in their double blind studies before submitting the drugs to FDA. Wonder how all these "Bad Drugs" get approved? Hmmmmm

Bill does formulas for the Health Care community to determine how many people will get sick with varying deceases during the course of a year. I presume this is to allow the health care people an opportunity to determine premiums. I can't read charts as well as Bill, but in the film I posted at the beginning of this thread, there were quite a few graphs and charts that showed how GMO modified products affected people and animals eating GMO processed foods and grains and what happened to these studied people and animals weeks after getting off the GMO foods and grains. I wonder if Bill will say the scientist who did these studies and creating the graphs were not really scientist or perhaps they didn't follow generally accepted standards and therefore we should continue to eat GMO processed foods until acceptably produced studies and graphs can be financed and approved by the people who manufacture the GMO. (Certainly, to be fair to Monsanto, we should support all efforts of Monsanto controlled officials, to prevent labeling products with this information.)

Maybe Bill is right and like cockroaches, people will adapt and change to conform to what the Monsanto's of the world want us to become. At some point, plants and animals will require the GMOs in order to live which will make Monsanto's goals of increasing profits quite successful. On the other hand, if all this DNA modification takes place too quickly, Bill's statistics of diseases and deaths may occur faster than the Drug Cartel can adapt their medicine to deal with the new illnesses, allergies and stress.

Please watch this film - The first 15 minutes at least!
http://www.youtube.com/v/a6OxbpLwEjQ?hl=en_US&version=3&rel=0

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:13 pm 
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gmattson wrote:
How a scientist like Bill, who brags about his superior diet, that keeps him healthy, slim and dynamic, can pretend he doesn't find any fault with fellow scientist who have sold out to the money making machines selling cheap modified foods to the poor, under the pretense that they are really humanitarians, feeding the masses.

Strawman alert!

Please tell me where I said I didn't find any fault.

What I said is that this documentary is ethically worse than Monsanto. It's my job as a scientist to call BS when I see it. That documentary was BS, George. The list of things wrong with it are too numerous to cite. For this conversation, it's a non-starter.

What I also said is GMO is neither good nor bad. It is a tool, like any other in your technology toolbox. What we need is research done - one product at a time. Let the data tell the truth. Let's keep our emotions and feelings out of it.

Monsanto wouldn't still be in business if they hadn't done much good. Whether or not you or anyone else likes it, they have touched your lives in many positive ways. If you eat fresh fruits and vegetables, Monsanto has touched your life. If you eat lean chicken and fish, Monsanto has touched your life. If you eat fresh grains, Monsanto has touched your life.

Monsanto has also been associated with many bad things. If they mess up, they should be held accountable.

So at the end of the day it's the behavior and the products that need to be evaluated. Leave the unscrupulous character assassinations and political "documentaries" to Michael Moore. He has his audience who throw lots of money at him to preach his garbage. (Michael Moore is also "all about the money." Imagine that!)

gmattson wrote:
Ever wonder why it is possible for the sleazy lawyers to become so wealthy suing drug manufacturers for selling "Bad Drugs"?

That's easy.

1) We have more lawyers here than in other countries. We have such a glut that law schools now are having trouble filling their classes. Some are offering non-degree-seeking programs to folks who want to take classes. As the nuns used to preach to me, idle hands are the tools of the devil.

2) We produce more products than any other country. More products mean more exposure.

3) Because of lobby groups who support HIV research (there *are* some advantages to being gay), the FDA has been forced to do "fast track" approval of medications. Fast track processes lead to more recall.

4) We cannot truly understand the risk of a pharmaceutical or a new technology until hundreds of thousands have been exposed to it. It's too expensive to do this in trials. You make your best guess and move forward. Mistakes will happen. People will get hurt. People will die. Ultimately it's a cost/benefit scenario. What risk are we willing to take to get the latest and best treatments? I sure would have loved to keep Vicki around rather than lose her to pancreatic cancer at such a young age. I would love to have many of my Exeter classmates around who died in their 30s from HIV (before we knew what caused it and how to treat it).

5) We place a very high value on life in this country. That is both good and bad. It is what it is.

Meanwhile... Many obstetricians cannot get malpractice insurance in rural areas because of unscrupulous lawyers like John Edwards. That very legal system that "protects" us has made it unaffordable for OBs to practice in rural settings where the margins are low. So great... we sue the cr@p out of one doctor for (allegedly) doing harm (often they haven't), and end up denying care to millions who live in rural areas. What progress we have made! (Not!)

The emotion, the misinformation, and the very lawyers this "documentary" is criticizing (for playing the patent game) are a big part of the problem. We need rational people to approach new technology and help it better our lives. We need critical people like Justin and Glenn to call us all when things are going too fast. Once the discussion gets emotional, we all lose. Once the Chicken Littles start with their internet and documentary campaigns, we all end up less informed.

..... Billy Madison Dumb Answer

- Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Feur wrote:
Canadian seal meat it's 100% natural, :D Boycott GMF eat seal!

I hear that baby seal is especially tender!

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- Bill

P.S. Dear PeTA wackos - This is a joke!
...... Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:10 am 
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This is what happens when lawyers try to practice medicine. These are the ones trolling for trailer trash when able-bodied people are working. What these bloodsuckers did was sue for a lot of money from Glaxo before the evidence came in vindicating the drug.

WSJ wrote:
BUSINESS - Updated June 6, 2013, 7:11 p.m. ET

Glaxo's Avandia Scores FDA Victory

SILVER SPRING, Md.—A government panel called for easing restrictions on the onetime big-selling diabetes drug Avandia, in a remarkable about-face nearly three years after concerns over heart risk led regulators to curtail use of the drug.

The vote was a victory for Avandia maker GlaxoSmithKline GSK.LN -1.47% PLC, which has maintained that the drug was safe. Glaxo asked Duke University to review a study that the company said showed no increase in heart attacks for Avandia patients, and Duke largely confirmed the company's view.

Image

At a two-day meeting of a Food and Drug Administration advisory panel, FDA officials strongly endorsed the Duke readjudication as credible and professionally conducted.


So now patients with the most severe forms of diabetes have an alternative treatment.

For what it's worth... Not all diabetes is from poor lifestyle. Type I diabetes is an autoimmune condition. Secondary diabetes happens when a pharmaceutical inadvertently destroys the insulin-producing islet cells, or the pancreas has to be removed due to trauma or cancer.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:11 am 
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Quote:
For what it's worth... Not all diabetes is from poor lifestyle. Type I diabetes is an autoimmune condition. Secondary diabetes happens when a pharmaceutical inadvertently destroys the insulin-producing islet cells, or the pancreas has to be removed due to trauma or cancer.


Absolutely , just as not all cardiovascular disease is diet and exercise related.

I'm not sure if the centre for disease control and prevention is consider a good source of information

Quote:
Type 2 diabetes accounts for 90%–95% of diabetes cases and is usually associated with older age, obesity and physical inactivity, family history of type 2 diabetes, or a personal history of gestational diabetes. Diabetes rates vary by race and ethnicity, with American Indian, Alaska Native, African American, Hispanic/Latino, and Asian/Pacific Islander adults about twice as likely as white adults to have type 2 diabetes. Type 2 diabetes can be prevented through healthy food choices, physical activity, and weight loss. It can be controlled with these same activities, but insulin or oral medication also may be necessary


Lots of factors in there but diets clearly in the mix.

Quote:
Diabetes Is Common, Disabling, and Deadly

25.8 million people in the United States (8.3% of the population) have diabetes. Of these, 7.0 million have undiagnosed diabetes.


In 2010, about 1.9 million new cases of diabetes were diagnosed in people aged 20 years or older.


If current trends continue, 1 of 3 U.S. adults will have diabetes by 2050.


Among adults, diabetes is the leading cause of new cases of blindness, kidney failure, and amputations of feet and legs not related to accidents or injury.


Diabetes was the seventh leading cause of death listed on U.S. death certificates in 2007.


A person with diabetes has a shorter life expectancy and about twice the risk of dying on any given day
as a person of similar age without diabetes.




http://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/resou ... AG/ddt.htm


Now what's causing all this change in genetics? or is it somehow lifestyle related?

Image

Big problem world wide , im not picking on the US , were just as bad

Now I realise were getting of track so I wont mention Diet/exercise and cardiovascular disease.....

but I think this kind of thing puts GMO in perspective as too our food issues.

I personally think even things like the rise in gluten intolerance etc. , is maybe more a case of the body knowing what it wants rather than it being a defect.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:51 pm 
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No worries, Marcus. It really is on the subject. The underlying concern is diet and exercise.

Quote:
Type 2 diabetes accounts for 90%–95% of diabetes cases

That number is way too high. I wrote the SAS code which others in my company use to detect Type I (autoimmune) vs. Type II (metabolic syndrome) vs. Secondary (pancreas destruction) diabetes in our medical claims data (mining the ICD-9 diagnostic codes on the claims). We measure it regionally, and I use it as an indicator of the type of people we're dealing with when - for instance - setting up a program to intervene early when a person with diabetes gets a foot wound. Understand that my company's headquarters is the same location as the headquarters of KFC/Yum. So there are a *lot* of metabolic syndrome issues in the heart of our covered population. We also have a massive Florida membership. Anyhow... I note that Type II is most prevalent where there are a combination of racial and ethnic issues which mean poor diet and high risk. I actually see Type I diabetes more prevalent in some affluent regions of Florida where folks pay attention to diet and exercise.

Stryke wrote:
but I think this kind of thing puts GMO in perspective as too our food issues.

I personally think even things like the rise in gluten intolerance etc. , is maybe more a case of the body knowing what it wants rather than it being a defect.

You are spot on.

And for what it's worth... I ask questions like this to candidates who we're considering for hiring. We get a lot of smart Yale grads (Masters in Public Health) from around the world applying for a job to work in our unit. Some of them do very well in school, but really haven't quite gotten the big picture. I don't have specific questions I ask. Rather I look at their resume, see something they claim they did, and then dive in deep. Issues like this one are a favorite topic of mine for interview dialogue.

An extreme example of this - one that's quite unfortunate - is the plight of south west Native Americans. We get folks applying for jobs who have for instance worked on the Arizona Native American Nations. I ask them about prevalent conditions they see. Now and then someone is too politically correct and won't tell it like it is. I know Jimmy Malone would be blunt, being a warrior chief in the Mic Mac Indian Nation. A problem unique to southwest Native Americans is their heritage of living for thousands of years amongst periods of feast and famine. Nature has selected for people who can store calories efficiently. Now put someone like that on The KFC Diet and you have instant morbid obesity.

Most humans lived and thrived with much less food. And while they ate a lot of spoiled food and lost lots to pestilence, they tended to eat whole foods either from an agricultural lifestyle or a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

Speaking of documentaries... there's a really cool Australian documentary you can find on YouTube that's about Okinawa. In it the host interviews Tomoyose Ryuko.

..... Okinawan Longevity and Health

He shows what the longer-living people eat - basically fish, sweet potatoes, any part of the pig they can, and green vegetables that they grow themselves. They are some of the longest-living on the planet. Meanwhile their kids now love the KFC and McDonald's diets. They love burgers and they love grease. They hate the bitter vegetables that their elders eat. They are growing bigger, and they are living shorter lives.

It is what it is.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:36 pm 
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Big problem world wide , im not picking on the US , were just as bad


Big problem in many First World countries, anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Quote:
An extreme example of this - one that's quite unfortunate - is the plight of south west Native Americans. We get folks applying for jobs who have for instance worked on the Arizona Native American Nations. I ask them about prevalent conditions they see. Now and then someone is too politically correct and won't tell it like it is. I know Jimmy Malone would be blunt, being a warrior chief in the Mic Mac Indian Nation. A problem unique to southwest Native Americans is their heritage of living for thousands of years amongst periods of feast and famine. Nature has selected for people who can store calories efficiently. Now put someone like that on The KFC Diet and you have instant morbid obesity.


Same problems here Bill , the high rate of obesity and diabetes in pacific islands and Maori population, though I have a hard time seeing where anyone else is behind these days.

Quote:
He shows what the longer-living people eat - basically fish, sweet potatoes, any part of the pig they can, and green vegetables that they grow themselves. They are some of the longest-living on the planet. Meanwhile their kids now love the KFC and McDonald's diets. They love burgers and they love grease. They hate the bitter vegetables that their elders eat. They are growing bigger, and they are living shorter lives.


To me the biggest part of this is the sugar issue , one needs to train oneself to enjoy bitter , but pretty impossible to develop that palate on a diet of refined sugar. I doubt most people reading this have never gone a week without refined sugar in there diet (unless medically necessary) in there entire lives , if they did they would recognise its pretty much an addiction, and they'll be substituting for that hit almost immediately.

at the start of the year I tried Scott Sonnons Primal eating challenge

http://primaleatinggift.com/

I follow my own modified Primal/Paleo type diet where id say 80% of my diet comes from whole food , and then I don't worry about the rest..... never felt better.


Thanks for the clip Bill

and yeah Jason first world problems ..... but spreading , as the market develops the problem follows .......


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Smart scientist must be aware of the addictive nature of bad foods and should be doing whatever possible to inform the public. However, smart scientist work for the very same companies that create the bad foods, so I don't see this happening. Guess it is up to those of us to step up and promote the under financed films with the messages, charts and graphs that tell the honest messages - - eating processed sugar laden foods and soft drink - GMO processed foods - will make you sick. When you go to the doctors, they won't tell you to eat healthy, they will put you on drugs that will make you more sick.

The smart scientist won't tell you this, because they will lose their jobs if they did!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Our doctors always tried to warn people about their diets, and invariably put them on medications when it was Provence the patients weren't listening. You can lead a horse to water...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:14 pm 
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Stryke" wrote:
To me the biggest part of this is the sugar issue , one needs to train oneself to enjoy bitter , but pretty impossible to develop that palate on a diet of refined sugar. I doubt most people reading this have never gone a week without refined sugar in there diet (unless medically necessary) in there entire lives , if they did they would recognise its pretty much an addiction, and they'll be substituting for that hit almost immediately.

At a recent talk to my research group, I passed around squares of this.

Image

Since my job is to make people healthier, I have a more willing audience. Me? I love the stuff. I often have a few squares after dinner. Cacao has antioxidants that are very heart healthy. Train yourself to love this, and follow with a cup of non-sweetened espresso. You'd be surprised what flavors will jump out at you.

The average person outside my research group? Not so much. I have yet to turn on someone outside my group to unsweetened chocolate. I love kids who challenge me that they'll love this. Try it. Set up a camera and watch the face when they take a bite.

I challenge all readers here to try this. If you can train your taste buds to love this, you have officially programmed them to enjoy food without sweet.

gmattson wrote:
Smart scientist must be aware of the addictive nature of bad foods and should be doing whatever possible to inform the public.

Smart scientists have been trying to teach people a lot about addiction these days...

Image

... but people don't listen.

gmattson wrote:

The smart scientist won't tell you this, because they will lose their jobs if they did!

Ahem... What am I, George, chopped liver? :P

In *my* world, we talk about the field of behavioral economics. Or... why people behave less like this guy ...

Image

... and more like this guy.

Image

My life these days is all about getting people to do what they know they should do but won't because they're a slave to their impulses.

Image

- Bill


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