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 Post subject: The Zimmerman verdict
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Lots to learn from this case.
I guess martial arts people could be made to look like 'wannabe warriors'

Years back...We all thought that under Florida law such an incident of 'self protection' wouldn't be 'actionable', right?

And, can Zimmerman now be sued in civil court?

The shooting was not "ruled" self defense.

He was simply found not guilty of murder or manslaughter. The Jury has not explained their reason for that ruling (nor do they have to).

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Our Stand Your Ground Law says you can't be sued by anyone for defending yourself, including bystanders who get hurt, as its considered the fault of the aggressor, but as far as I know, it is a part of the Stand Your Ground Law, and he didn't use that. He just went with a basic self defense. I won't be surprised at all if a suit is brought later over this because of a technicality.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:00 pm 
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I'm guessing that it doesn't help your case when the president says that the victim looks like a son he might have had :roll: ......is that usual, for a president to say something as incendiary and biased as that?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:07 pm 
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Right on...kind of a stupid remark for someone so intelligent. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Well a lot of the sites that I subscribe to say that all this was contrived, for one thing Zimmerman isn't even white and even teaches black kids...so it's not white on black.....Obama must have been aware of what happened with Rodney King so it makes his comments very suspect.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Much of this controversy was manufactured by media.

Yahoo! News wrote:
NBC fires producer over edited Zimmerman 911 call

Wendy Carpenter April 7, 2012 The Upshot

A producer for NBC News has been fired for editing a recording of George Zimmerman's call to police the night he fatally shot Trayvon Martin.

The New York Times is reporting that "the person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters."

The dismissal of the Miami-based producer, whose name has not been publicized, followed an internal investigation by NBC, which led to the network apologizing earlier this week for having aired the deceptive audio.

This photo combo shows George Zimmerman. At left is a 2005 booking photo provided by the Orange County Jail via …

The recording aired on NBC's "Today" show on March 27, when the audio viewers heard suggested that Zimmerman volunteered to police, without provocation, that Martin was black: "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black."

But the tape had been edited, and the portion where the 911 dispatcher specifically asks Zimmerman if the person in question was "black, white or Hispanic," was deleted.

The conversation that actually occurred between the dispatcher and Zimmerman is as follows:

"This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about." Then the dispatcher asked, "O.K., and this guy — is he white, black or Hispanic?" To which Zimmerman replied, "He looks black."

After that phone call on the night of Feb. 26, Zimmerman fatally shot Martin. The 17-year-old Martin was unarmed, and Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer in Sanford, Fla., told police he fired in self-defense after Martin attacked him.

Gee... and we wonder why so many passionate opinions were formed against Zimmerman before he could even get his day in court.

This was a misguided social cause shamelessly in search of a story. And that story needed to be edited to fit the correct script. The manufactured script never happened; it was nothing short of race baiting to get ratings and/or manipulate public opinion.

If any civil suits should be filed, they should be filed by Zimmerman and/or cities where riot damage happened. And they should be filed against NBC - the only relevant deep pocket in this scenario. I just hope some enterprising lawyer reads my post and gets on it. Not that I endorse that kind of activity, but... If a trial attorney needs some coin, well here's some in a gift-wrapped box.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Bill,

Just wondering, was defense court appointed, or will the Z man have to foot the bill?

And will the civil suit have any grounds to be sustained based on Florida law?

We all have fantasies of self defense...we carry guns...we know the best 'kata'...look at where it can get you.

The Zman has lost peace and comfort for as long as he lives, that is, if he doesn't get killed some day coming back from the grocery store.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:31 am 
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ZZZZZZZzzz

http://blutube.policeone.com/videos/632 ... tter&nlid=

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:59 am 
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Van Canna wrote:
Bill,

Just wondering, was defense court appointed, or will the Z man have to foot the bill?

Generally the meter is running in situations like this. However attorneys are eager to take on high profile cases - even if there's no guarantee of a payday. All that free publicity can set them up for life. They'll have to higher extra staff to take care of the new case load. And then of course there will be the book deals, speaking engagements...

And this is all the more reason for Zimmerman to sue NBC for their shorts and then some.

Van Canna wrote:

Those protesters need to realize that those cameras are a double-edged sword. Their defense lawyers are going to wish they had kept their mouths shut. 'Best feeling in the world?' I'm sure the prosecuting attorney is going to make it feel real good, and the defense attorney will be cringing. Go into jail running your mouth about race issues and see what happens. Without being in and protected by a like-minded race gang, you will be picked off and silenced.

By the way, kudos to the police for handling the situations as well as they did. Not a single officer filmed getting emotionally hijacked.

There was a very interesting show the other night I believe on the History Channel. Hispanic groups are growing in power in Southern California, and they have a real attitude about race integration. [1] Apparently many of the gangs are run by those in prison. Sure... go into one of those prisons spouting off about Zimmerman - a Hispanic - and see what happens.

Sometimes a fellow just needs to learn how to STFU. It's one thing to be Martin Luther King and engage in civil disobedience. Right or wrong, it is at least a noble endeavor. It's another thing altogether to be an antagonistic tool.

- Bill

1) Mexican gangs trying to run black families out of southern California


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:42 am 
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Al good points, Bill.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:55 am 
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WEll we heard about Zimmerman over here....but not a peep about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlGMHzxh ... r_embedded

Which is far more disturbing, I wonder why that was?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:
Quote:
Our Stand Your Ground Law says you can't be sued by anyone for defending yourself, including bystanders who get hurt, as its considered the fault of the aggressor, but as far as I know, it is a part of the Stand Your Ground Law, and he didn't use that. He just went with a basic self defense. I won't be surprised at all if a suit is brought later over this because of a technicality.

Let's turn this around a bit. The labels of "aggressor" and "defender" are not clear-cut in this case. Could Zimmerman's defense have not used Stand Your Ground because that law might have worked against Zimmerman? If they had used it then the prosecution might have introduced an argument that Martin had every right to stand his ground against Zimmerman. From What about Martin's right to 'stand his ground'?

Quote:
The question that has not surfaced in the courtroom -- the elephant in the room -- is this: Did Martin fear for his life after being followed and confronted by a stranger while going to the store to buy candy and a soft drink? Was he, Martin, justified in standing his ground and defending himself when this stranger, an apparent stalker, approached him in a threatening manner?

Zimmerman didn't identify himself and never said he was part of the neighborhood watch group.

Think about it: We're told over and over that if Zimmerman was afraid of Martin, according to Florida law, he had the right to put a bullet in the chamber of his concealed handgun, get out of his car after being told not to by the 911 dispatcher and follow and confront Martin and shoot him to death.

At the same time, we are told that Martin, who had far greater reason to fear Zimmerman, practically and for reasons of American history, did not have the right to confront his stalker, stand his ground and defend himself, including by using his fists. We are told that this was entirely unjustified and by doing so, Martin justified his own execution.

The phrases "stand your ground" and "self-defense" have been repeated endlessly by anchors, pundits, analysts and experts, but rarely applied to Martin.

How could this be? Why is this other question ignored? Surely it will come up as we approach the trial, I thought. But it hasn't. What's going on here? How can the Florida law apply only to Zimmerman and not to Martin?

<snip>

Why hasn't the prosecution team used Florida law to argue strongly for Martin's right of self-defense, his right to stand his ground against a stalker? Why not turn the tables on Zimmerman's exclusive claim to that argument?

Focusing only on self-defense against Martin's physical attack may have been the smarter defense for Zimmerman in this case, and it seems to have worked.

So what do y'all think, did Martin also have the right to "stand his ground" against Zimmerman? What would y'all have done if in Martin's position in this incident?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:34 pm 
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jorvik wrote:
for one thing Zimmerman isn't even white and even teaches black kids...so it's not white on black.....

Actually racially he is White (Caucasian), most Hispanics/Latinos are. White is a racial classification that is separate from being Latino/Hispanic, which is an ethnic classification. On the Census forms, I am guessing Zimmerman marks one of the Yes categories in question 5 and marks White for question 6:
http://www.prb.org/Articles/2009/questionnaire.aspx

Asking about Hispanic origins started with the 1970 Census, prior to that all Hispanics would have only selected a racial category such as White.

The combined results of those two 2010 Census questions gave us 2010 Census Shows White Population Growth Fueled by Hispanics
U.S. Census Bureau wrote:
The U.S. Census Bureau released today a 2010 Census brief, The White Population: 2010 [PDF], that shows the white population continued to be the largest race group in the nation, representing 75 percent of the total population, but grew at a slower rate than the total population.

Hispanics Accounted for Three-Fourths of White Population Growth

Whites who identified as being of Hispanic origin increased by 56 percent between 2000 and 2010. Of the 231.0 million white alone-or-in-combination population in the 2010 Census, 29.2 million, or 13 percent, reported they were Hispanic, up from 9 percent in 2000.


In other words there is no logical legitimacy to the concept of "white-vs-Hispanic". This highlights the whole confusion over race and ethnicity in the U.S., particularly given how many of us are of mixed ancestry. Racially I am White but in terms of ethnic origins I am German-British Isles mutt, and given my blood genotype is AO that O allele indicates the strong likelihood for American Indian somewhere in my ancestry. Yet as far as the Census results go, I am simply "Non-Hispanic White".

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:30 pm 
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jorvik wrote:
WEll we heard about Zimmerman over here....but not a peep about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlGMHzxh ... r_embedded

Which is far more disturbing, I wonder why that was?

First...

Michael Savage is an excellent radio host. He has a superb voice, a sharp mind, and pulls no punches. But he doesn't have the "correct" political leanings. The media in our country is generally liberal-leaning, with a couple of notable exceptions. Fox News is the big one, and they tend to be typically Republican-leaning (fiscally conservative, socially conservative).

Michael Savage also often repeats the expression "liberalism is a disease." I tried to research who first said this, and cannot find the source. But there's actually a McNaughton painting now titled that, with a bevy of well-known liberals on a quarantined island.

I bring this up because "mainstream media" tries to marginalize Michael Savage as being "fringe" because he doesn't think "correctly." So this is one reason why you won't see this case brought up.

Second...

There's an unspoken rule about the whole hate crime thing. It's like the unspoken rules of baseball, where you'll be beaned if you've violated one. Apparently a hate crime can't happen if you belong to certain groups, e.g. are white, male, Irish/Anglo, Christian, or middle-aged. It's OK to bash middle-aged males or the Irish, but you will be savaged for making unflattering remarks about other groups. I say this as a middle-aged, Irish male. I get it. I've actually been victim of it in layoffs, where they document (seriously) the preservation of certain protected groups and find it expedient to dispose of others. I don't play victim very well, or very nicely for that matter. I deal with it by being better/smarter and succeeding anyhow. So you won't hear me crying foul. It is what it is.

So this is why you'll never see this being brought front and center in this country, Ray.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Bill
We have a similar problem in the UK. We have the Black prosecutors union, the Black police union..yet if you have a white only organisation it is rascist and illegal :evil: hypocrites.

With this case I have only heard about it in passing .this was the interview I heard about it from

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... F-Ax5E8EJc

which for the most part seems balanced and does give some information not heard elswhere. i.e that the deceased was buying drugs paraphenalia and not sweeties and a bottle of Pop........whatever happenend I think the left wing biased media have a lot to answer for , as they did with the Rodney King case.


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