Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:57 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17137
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Stryke wrote:
Of anyone has examples of the Seisan jumpback that aren't dodging id be very interested

The problem lies in taking the kata too literally. Some of my best applications for the end of Seisan involve taking bits and pieces of the move and working with it.

I agree that established contact makes for some of the more interesting interpretations. Difficult to describe here, but all good stuff.

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 415
Quote:
A flinch is what it is. A martial move that incorporates a flinch is the best way to configure custom brain wiring on top of hard-wired, primal responses. You probably agree with me on that.


Absolutely :)

This thread has been interesting , and not for the usual reasons , it's hard to articulate a physical art when often folks are saying the same things just different ways.

my little pet joke of dodging is just a thought id put out there , while timing footwork and evasion are very important skills, I see most people using this to make sense of kata , I don't believe this is valid as I think to put it bluntly if you can evade time and dodge everything the technique is fairly redundant.

Id put blocking in there also but one grenade at a time I guess.

but then id be building absolutes , that I'd trip over , words fail the point being made.

Bill your statement of kata being kata and application being application is a prime example

Not so long ago I would of very much disagreed , believing kata must be functional and done with the purpose and for effect clearly its applicative , and yet if taken another way one can be in agreement in the sense that the principles of kata need to fit and adapt to the situation outside of a rigidity of the template.

Also Glens statement that kata is not symbolic and literal , I agree moves should be literal , until as Bill suggests things get to literal and robot ryu sets in , intent as in all things is key.

as for symbolic , the moves undoubtedly are ritualised and symbolic until the partner is reintroduced , more too consider......

the jump is just a variation of a step and a slide , I also pivot , these are the three blocks of movement/footwork so really could be taken in any variation and combination for the experienced.

I think everyone on here probably has an interesting and functional approach to this stuff , would be fun to cross hands and compare.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17137
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Here's an interesting Wing Chun video clip which shows some applications of the "Seisan jump legs" in the Seisan jump. I'm not completely on board with everything he says, but he's good at what he does and this starts the conversation.

How to Do a Bong/Taan Gerk aka Leg Defenses | Wing Chun

So here are the relevant points.

  • The first leg lift of the jump can be considered as either an inside Bong Gerk or inside Taan Gerk.
    ...
  • One doesn't need to use Bong or Taan Gerk strictly as defensive moves. Orient yourself properly, pull back, and then lift the leg inside their leg with the foot acting as hook (per the proper foot position of the first leg lift in the jump).
    ...
  • I agree with his use of the external Taan Gerk, but disagree with his execution. No... you don't have either the time or the (one-legged) mechanics to pull off a "circular" move with that leg. Keep it simple. Consider the orientation of the second leg in the Seisan jump - the one you pose with. As with our arm rubbing exercise, the trick is blading your leg so you "slip" the kick like a boxer or Seisan master would "slip" a strike. I demonstrate this all the time and shock students when I show them that neither of our shins get hurt. And then your posture is all aligned to continue your movement forward per the philosophy of the three thrusts early in Seisan kata.
    ...
  • You can also use an external Taan Gerk as part of a throwing motion per the hooking motion described above.

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 415
Nice 8)

I'll be back :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:36 am
Posts: 575
I don't like that technique,when the guy has hold of both your arms it's foollish to raise one leg you are so badly off balance. My wing Chun teacher used to shut down kickers just by pressing on their guard, as I've said before he was a thai boxer as well, so he had some experience with this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 415
I thought id posted this but it must of got lost in the ether

As far as straight movement goes here's something for thought

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1_fYgd25FI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17137
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
jorvik wrote:
when the guy has hold of both your arms it's foollish to raise one leg you are so badly off balance.

You're presuming a lot with that statement which may not be the case at any one instant in time. Nothing is static. Athletes constantly adjust their centers as they move. And having that extra leg free gives you the opportunity to put it where you want when both partners' centers change.

Furthermore if *you* have hold of both *their* arms, then you can pull their center over the leg you're about to manipulate. And that's pretty much how most "dumping" techniques work.

There's nothing radical here. That's pretty much how crane gung fu works. Uechika *jump* into one-legged stances tens of thousands of times in their training. And anyone who kicks or drives a knee is temporarily in a one-legged stance. A Thai boxer will do the knee to your legs or torso all day long while in a clinch.

Obviously if you feel off balance then you should never take one or the other foot off the ground. But then you'll never move.

Many years ago people used to argue about whether or not a horse had all four legs off the ground when running. Those who said no thought it preposterous. How could a horse not fall down when doing so? I mean really! Then motion photography came about, and the question was answered.

... The Horse In Motion

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 415
Bill touches on something , when it comes to being on your feet your only ever stepping , sliding or pivoting .

combinations and order of these vary , but its pretty basic , master the basics and the rest is open ground

this is kind of the same but different reason I posted the systema clip , not specific movement but principle based movement when it comes to avoidance.

All movement can be capitalised on in regards to imbalance as its all a form of controlled falling.

I always find it interesting how many karateka struggle to work from a natural neutral stance, when we transition through it pretty much in everything we do , its all a question of attention and intention I guess.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:36 am
Posts: 575
ok Racehorses aside :P .....a little experiment, stand in front of somebodty and ask them to push your shoulders hard, next stand on one leg and ask the person to do the self same thing.notice the difference :roll: it really doesn't matter whose kata it apears in, or whether a guy from (a questionable lineage of ) Wing Chun does it....BTW it's called science :P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 415
Now ask the same guy too push you standing on one leg while kicking

:lol: :lol:

its what happens relative to each other, not relative to you as the centre of the universe.

Its called relativity, and it is science


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:01 am
Posts: 2142
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
jorvik wrote:
ok Racehorses aside :P .....a little experiment, stand in front of somebodty and ask them to push your shoulders hard, next stand on one leg and ask the person to do the self same thing.notice the difference :roll: it really doesn't matter whose kata it apears in, or whether a guy from (a questionable lineage of ) Wing Chun does it....BTW it's called science :P

Oh that simply means that you either have not trained your one-legged stance well enough or that your chi is off :D

_________________
Glenn


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 415
I thought us Uechi guys were a questionable lineage of Yong Chun :twisted: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30335
The 'right' Uechi :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L1YChgSG5Y

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:36 am
Posts: 575
Quote
"Oh that simply means that you either have not trained your one-legged stance well enough or that your chi is off "

Ok well I shall imbibe of a fine Scottish malt, and hopefully my "Chi" will be fully restored 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:17 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Bill Glasheen wrote:
See if you can guess the posture.


If you're wondering why Ortiz got so emotionally hijacked, look very carefully at the pitch pattern. They had no intention of giving a strike. In fact none of the six pitches were strikes. But just before the video clip where you see Papi backing out of the batters box even before the ball is released, a pitch was thrown at his face. Look at the box that shows the location of pitches, and see pitch 3. That's when the adrenaline started flowing.
- Bill


I understand that having someone throw at you can cause all sorts of reactions. But a few things that I see here. One it didn't look like Ortiz asked for time out. And if it's not granted then he should stay in the box. Players step out of the box all the time like asking for it is automatic. So it not being granted and the resulting strike are the right call unless something has changed.

This video really bothers me as Ortiz is a role model to so many. He's a big name professional baseball player making millions. As such we should hold him responsible for his actions. Ejecting him was right. HIm smashing up the dugout was wrong and his potentially hurting his teammates was really wrong. I didn't see if he got a suspension and/or fines but this is clearly a case of where they would be justified.

Maybe some will disagree with me, but we wonder why kids act like punks but we allow this sort of behavior? Blow off steam, throw the bat down, get ejected, do what batters have done since the game began, but busting up the dugout and having the bat shatter where people can get hurt is way over the line IMHO stress or not.

Or simply put, don't we train to learn and be able to maintain control? Baseball players know getting thrown at is part of the game. Rules are in place to keep it in check but they're professionals and should know how to control themselves.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group