Wing Chun that doesn't look bad.

[jorvik]

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"But what happens when one of the parties doesn't play Chi Sau properly, like the big red headed kid? What would that look like?"

Mike, I don't think that I gave you the answer to what you really meant. What I think you are saying is that what happens if folks won't play your game, in this instance give you the fight that you want. This is something that a lot of chunners don't see ..which is why I don't practice WC anymore BTW .
If you look behind the mystic, what do you have? You have a system that fights very close in using striking techniques, to assist this they use a training exercise called "Sticking hands" that is really the essence of the system ( Gary Lam makes this point over and over again, it's the chi sao that makes the system).and other stuff such as the wooden dummy and a couple of forms tagged on the end, and they fight face on..............so how can you beat them easy just don't let them get close.Exploit their stance by going side on and use jabs rather than a barrage of punches like they do, use long range kicks or get in very close and wrestle them.

This is the story of all martial arts, somebody notices a weakness, develops a habit of doing something that exploits that weakness, i.e close in fighting in this instance.somebody else finds out what they are doing and develops counters to it and the system becomes redundant.
I believe that this is the reason a lot of old masters in China kept their arts secret...If you have never seen a Good chunner fight then it can be a real shock to the senses having to face one.but the same applies to any style if you hadn't seen TKD and had to fight one of them it would be equally difficult

[MikeK]

Right. What I liked about the instructor was he didn't cry "foul!" when the kid started going off of the normal Chi Sau script, especially with the kid being a visitor and a junior in the style.
I think he rather enjoyed it.

Wing chun is very scientific in a sense, becuase the people who know what they are doing can explain everything about the style.

But I wonder if the explanations are correct. Like many martial arts there are some really good things in the ideas but I have to think that the current explanations for why something is done is the real reason something is done.

http://truthabouttaiwan.blogspot.com/20 ... posed.html

[jorvik]

Quote
"Right. What I liked about the instructor was he didn't cry "foul!" when the kid started going off of the normal Chi Sau script, especially with the kid being a visitor and a junior in the style.
I think he rather enjoyed it."

Maybe he did,but it wasn't chi sao, it was just slop.he should have just started sparring , because it was outside the range of Chi Sao and really outside the range of wing chun

Quote
"But I wonder if the explanations are correct. Like many martial arts there are some really good things in the ideas but I have to think that the current explanations for why something is done is the real reason something is done."

It depends a lot upon who you speak to. The ones who are doing the real stuff, well their explanations haven't changed at all. The ones who learnt the incorrect stuff are all over the place trying to define or justify what they do..........................As I say though I no longer do Wing chun, it wasn't for me, all I'm doing is sharing my experiences. I know when somebody is really good and when they are not ( doesn't mean that I can do anything about it though ..it's like knowing a great guitarist , it doesn't make you one.)

[Stryke]

The real thing being discussed in this thread was that the guy acknowledges collision , meeting of force , the moment the fight actually happens

to many TMA totally Ignore this fact and don't train to get over the advantage line , it happens in WC karate you name it , it happens when we rehearse our drills and meet at the point in a co-operative manner on equal terms.

these systems are simple , I'm not saying there easy to master but they are simple , it is superior technique through superior work , it is not the superior system but the superior practitioner that makes them effective.

at the risk of quoting myself, from a great link Van posted


http://uechi-ryu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22034

Loved the bit about collisions and fighting occurring at ramming speed.....

to much martial masturbation that attempts to negate the collision , I call it meeting , you control or utilise this moment or you loose period, to much relying on blocking evading etc. , this simply delays the inevitable collision.

you control this meeting or you loose.

now it doesn't mean it has to be force on force and that you cant get of the x and take the angles etc , but if you aren't over the advantage line first , there's no advantage

Real insight , break things down , it is the collision that is the act of violence.

[MikeK]

Good observation Marcus.
Here are two more videos. The Gary Lam video is the one Izzo references in his.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-dkNr77QGnY

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s9zavY0qyk ... 9zavY0qyk8

[jorvik]

Quote

The real thing being discussed in this thread was that the guy acknowledges collision , meeting of force , the moment the fight actually happens


Ok in responce to the first video When I did GM's Wing chun and somebody charges at you are taught to let him push you back and slide off him to the side, this is shown in GM's WC single sticking hands and his double sticking hands, this is NOT shown in all Wing chun systems. I must emphasis this. When people talk about WC it is very important to know the lineage. this was one of the reasons I decided to stop Wing chun, because I have bad hips ........Now don't misunderstand me I'm not saying that Wing Chun, or any particular style of Wing Chun is unbeatable, what I am saying is in GM'S wing Chun they train in a certain way.BTW I've heard that Gary Lam is 6ft 3inches.......and he also used to teach Muy Thai along with his Wing Chun.