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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:
'standing your ground' while you get pounded on …'Come on…I am tough'…


Or the classic "give me your best shot"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUvicyg-Wwg&t=1256s (link should go straight to the scene but if not it is at 20:56)
and the fight is essentially over with the first blow.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:52 am 
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Thanks Rick, I know we are of the same mind.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Ok late to the party.......I don't do Uechi but I do the Uechi techniques :D .on "Poor Bob"....I think "checking" is a crock of krapp......for the simple reason is that I am truthfull about karate.in Uechi you have lots of "killshots" end of.......the backfist to the temple, the boshinkan to the throat, the shuto to the side of the neck, the arm smash to behind the ear ( and this is a beauty)........go test them.......... you can't :P dead training partners......so when you test them, you aren't really testing you are holding back :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:39 pm 
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Just finished my Uechi-ryu workout and thought to offer another one of my after-workout ranting. This time a few comments on Sanchin. I thought I would use this thread instead of starting a new one.

Some of my workout buddies from way back would never believe that one day I would come to this. My old slam-bang-head-breaking mentality is gone. I have come to appreciate more and more the concept of Sanchin, and the concept of Pangai-Noon.

I do not perform my katas with lighting speed and full power throughout any more. Those same old buddies might say "Yeah Henry, you just don't have the speed and power anymore"-- or "you just can't keep your body rock hard or take those poundings anymore". They are right, I never could anyway. I have also long passed the full-of-pi##-and-vinegar stage. But I would also add maturity and increased understanding of the art as the main reasons. What took me this long?

Please bear with me---

Uechi-ryu came from Chinese Kungfu. We all know that.

There are three main Kungfu concepts: Soft, hard, and half-hard-half soft. It is also in George's books.

Pangai-Noon, as we all know (right?) means half hard half soft. It is the basic concept of our style. Those young tough dudes doing sanchin and other Uechi katas with full power and maintaining hard as a rock throughout and totally ignoring the concept are doing something else.

Before I talk about Sanchin, let me mention that Chi Kung (or Qigong) is an inherent part of a lot of the Kung Fu systems. Hung-Ga (it is a hard style, by the way) for example, begin all their major forms (katas), the ones that I learned anyway, with some Chi Kung movements. We do the same with the Sanchin hand movements at the beginning of Seisan. (For those who wish to learn more about Chi Kung, check out Yang Jawing-Ming's books such as Chi Kung Health & Martial Arts, and if you want to get fancy, The Root of Chinese Chi Kung are good references. I don't know him. He seems very knowledgeable but just don't believe everything you read though. Some stuff is probably more than hundreds years old and was probably dreamed up by the monks high on weeds when they still believe the earth was flat.)

OK, Sanchin (in my opinion) is more of a Chi Kung exercise than anything. It is not a fighting kata as some claim. (I said it is my opinion!) And speaking of over analyzing movements as I saw on some videos, at the risk of digressing let me simply say that a bow is just a bow, it is not a head butt. A close-gate position is similar in meaning to a bow and that's that, they are not meant for attacking. Of course you can use them as head butts and strikes but those interpretations are just inappropriate. Those Japanese and Chinese people bowing and close-gating to each other all over the place are not preparing to attack each other, they are showing courtesy and respect, nothing more (Well, may be a little more with the close-gate gesture-- at one time it was supposed to identify themselves to their own secret society. Check history of the Ming Dynasty I think, on the origin of the close-gate hand gesture if interested).

Sorry, difficult not to digress. That being said, the close-gate hand gesture after performing katas is no more than showing respect after a performance. Maintaining rock-hard position or pounding on someone's close-gate position after a performance is not demonstrating what it is supposed to be.

Some people believe that Sanchin is part of the old Iron-shirt training, it may or may not be but, you know what? They thought they could stop bullets doing that iron-shirt training too and you don't believe that do you? (Google the relevant Chinese history prior to the Boxers Rebellion, if interested.)

And why would anyone want to train Iron-shirt in the Year 2000+? Are they crazy? Yea, train to be able to take a few punches here and there is one thing, but pounding the hell out of someone thinking that it is proper training is something else. Do professional boxers stand still and let their training partners pound the hell out of them repeatedly for training?

I studied Northern Shaolin Chi Kung a bit when I was younger. Although some very minor self-pounding on the body during Chi Kung practice is involved in the style, breathing and concentration are the most important aspects. The self poundings were meant more to spread the Chi (let's not argue whether it exists) and the poundings were relatively soft and nowhere even close to as hard as some of those tough dudes do unto others, probably for reasons they don't even know of.

As I get older and spending more years doing Uechi-ryu, I am appreciating Sanchin more and more-- the breathing, the concentration, the Pangai-Noon concept, the Chi Kung concept. But keep those pounding tough dudes away from me.

If Sanchin is not learned and practiced following the Pangai-Noon concept and breath with something close to Chi Kung style breathing, the rest of the Uechi-ryu practice may very well be off. And if all other Uechi-ryu katas are practiced with full power and hard as a rock throughout the katas, it is just tough guy stuff, it is not in accordance with the Pangai-Noon concept.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:38 pm 
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"Those Japanese and Chinese people bowing and close-gating to each other all over the place are not preparing to attack each other, they are showing courtesy and respect, nothing more." 8)

In the Hung gar (tiger-crane) classes I attended, it was protocol when the teacher corrected you, to attack with a slight bow with a closed gate hand gesture, which he would counter with the same. This could be translated as "thank you for teaching me", and "thank you for learning from me". :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:04 pm 
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Fivedragon, it is hilarious isn't it? Kind of sad though.

This may be off topic (from my Oct 22 post) but let me say a few more words as though I hadn't said enough to offend some senseis already. I said "some senseis" so please don't have a cow (do they still say that?). If you don't do this stuff, great. But if you do this stuff, I suggest you read what I am saying and think about it.

Since we are talking about the closed gate gesture at this point, may be I should emphasize that this gesture is a Chinese thing, not Okinawan. May be that is the reason we have this ridiculous pounding on the closed gate forearms.

If you ever saw those guys pounding away (and sometimes throwing in round house kicks too) on the closed gate forearms of the presenter who just finished his Sanchin, you have got to wonder what the heck is he doing. I just want to tell those guys: "Take it easy man, he is finished. He is doing the closed gate thing to show respect and good will before walking off. Pounding at this point shows nothing but a lack of knowledge on your part. When he is doing the closed gate, you should face him and do the same, and walk off with him. Period." A silly question here might demonstrate my point: If he is bowing instead of closed gating, would you pound on his skull?" (Did I create the term "closed gating"?)

It is even more hilarious, or embarrassing at certain situations, to see some of those Sanchin presenters, black belts no less, finished their Sanchin and holding their closed gate position grunting and straining away with face turning red as though they are trying to explode. What are you doing, man?

This grunting and straining, whether during Sanchin itself or at the closed gate position, is really the result of incorrect teaching due to lack of knowledge. The heavy duty pounding (or checking) has somehow became part of the practice for some folks, regardless if it makes sense or not.

My final suggestion to those folks, meditate on the term Pangai-Noon (half hard half soft), it just might come to you.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:40 pm 
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Quote:
It is even more hilarious, or embarrassing at certain situations, to see some of those Sanchin presenters, black belts no less, finished their Sanchin and holding their closed gate position grunting and straining away with face turning red as though they are trying to explode. What are you doing, man?


Well, the may be trying to pass some 'accumulated gas' Henry...LOL.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:33 am 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys are the best .

I remember a guy that took his karate so seriously he started to talk with a Japanese accent , well his poor version of one , but only when he was concentrating and explaining to class , I think he watched to many samurai flicks ..... :lol:

Good post Henry , I tend to think the balance gets lost , but also that while I agree that's sometimes there a time and place for going a little far in whichever direction, as long as you don't loose sight of the whole picture.

To everything there is a season..... at different points we all need different things, but maybe the middle road is the one that has the most benefit long term.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:04 pm 
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8)

One of the best gifts we can give ourselves is the ability to laugh and learn. LIfe is serious enough already, we don't need to forsake the good things.

I was thinking about when you go to the zoo and see the tigers. Watch how they bask in the sun, stretch and let out a mighty roar, and languidly slip into the water to cool off. Watch how they observe the people who gather around, making noises and gestures. You can see the strength, ferocity and structure resting in this supremely relaxed animal. The energy of the leopard as it engages in walking meditation to and fro. The slow coiling of the snake. The quiet poise and grace of the crane. The caress of the dragon as the wind blows and the water flows around the rocks in the forest.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:21 pm 
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Five Dragon
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I was thinking about when you go to the zoo and see the tigers. Watch how they bask in the sun, stretch and let out a mighty roar, and languidly slip into the water to cool off. Watch how they observe the people who gather around, making noises and gestures. You can see the strength, ferocity and structure resting in this supremely relaxed animal. The energy of the leopard as it engages in walking meditation to and fro. The slow coiling of the snake. The quiet poise and grace of the crane. The caress of the dragon as the wind blows and the water flows around the rocks in the forest.


I just love this... :D

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:27 pm 
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And that is what it's all about. :D Nice to sit around the fire, in the desert, and tell stories.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:10 am 
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:)

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