Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:44 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3542
Location: Valhalla
Hello,
I am interested in what everyone may think the impact of martial arts on education is.
Historically we have seen martial arts impact men in positive ways like Miyamoto Musashi, Jigoro Kano, Gichin Funakoshi,
Chuck Norris, and even our own George Mattson.
Many of these men (myself included) were troubled youths and impacted in some way by martial arts training.
But what is it?
Why does it have this impact on people?
There really is no wrong answer to the question.
Is there something about the way that the training has to happen that trickles down into other areas of learning or goal setting?

Please share your thoughts on it. I don't think the question has ever been asked before.

_________________
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17040
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I am perhaps the wrong person to make a first comment, as I'm going to be putting my scientist's hat on. And when I say that, I mean I'm going to be skeptical even of my own opinion on the matter. I do science every day now, and have learned to let the data from a well-constructed experiment do the talking. But lacking said data... all we have is expert opinion. That is what it is, and I'll share my own. It's based on having taught over 2000 through the years.

My personal opinion is that this is the classic chicken-and-egg problem to untangle and comment on. Nowhere have we seen people randomized to "train" and "no train" groups. Instead we deal with selection bias where some people self-select to train and some people don't.

To start with, only about 5 percent of the people you train make it to shodan, if that many. The other 19 out of 20 choose to move on in life. That doesn't mean we didn't have an effect on those people; we can never know as they go on to their lives. But I have experienced the anecdotes.

There's that mom who came to me with baby in arms, thanking me for teaching her ukemi. Allegedly her training in my class caused her not to squash baby when she took a fall in the garage with junior in her arms. Another told me how a horse stopped suddenly and he rolled off the horse and on to feet - as if he meant it. And that happened literally a few miles away from where Christopher Reeves broke his neck in a horse-riding accident, permanently altering (and shortening) his life and quite possibly that of his wife.

Another thing I note is the preponderance of professionals amongst my dan ranks. I have a non-representative sample of doctors, lawyers, nurses, and PhDs in scientific fields. The numbers in fact are staggering. Off the top of my head I can think of 4 doctors, 3 physics PhDs, a biology professor, a nursing professor, and a gaggle of lawyers. And then there are a couple of people like the hedonist Bryan who still lives the good life by teaching skiing in the winter (Colorado) and sky diving in the summer (wherever). But what is this all about? Do people bound for professional careers gravitate to and excel in martial arts? Alternately does the training prepare them for the academic work and those careers? Or is there some kind of interaction where they play off each other? I don't know...

I can also say that I have a number of students who either have traveled abroad (Asia) or served in the armed forces after training in my classes. And all have done well. And come back alive. (Knock on wood...)

Personally when I entered Mr. Jefferson's University, I wanted to create my own "University Degree" experience. I wasn't formally accepted into that program, but the advisor I gravitated to (and now founder of VCU's engineering program) understood and supported my goals. I wanted to master biology, chemistry, math, music, and martial arts, and I saw them as one entity. And to me they still are.

Book coming soon. ;-)

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3542
Location: Valhalla
Hi Bill.
I actually posted this trying to gather some data for a graduate education class. A challenging topic for sure.
My professor was real interested in my pursuing it. He is not a martial artist but has seen what you described.
I hope some others post, there is no right or wrong answer or theory.
F.

_________________
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 352
Hi Fred a disclaimer as I've seen a cross section of success and failure in MA and many things

however I smiled the other day when you pointed to Blooms taxonomy , and educational model that takes into account mind body and spirit ?

I think that's a strength with MA

also the life lesson that it takes longer to achieve in the short term than you can imagine, however you can achieve far more in the long term than you can imagine. That's a lesson in learning many never get.

Of course for the successful MA theres goal setting , determination , overcoming hurdles and commitment , very transferable attributes.

Another interesting angle of course is the mindfulness , being aware of awareness , there's been some interesting science in neuroplasticity and meditation , and our ability to have a perception of our self that is not tied to the story/thoughts we reference constantly , how this is useful in regards to life skills and stress levels . I believe this is a component to long term martial arts also.

Interesting topic , good luck with your research


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:05 am
Posts: 1176
The study of opposing, yet complimentary forces is so vast and can lead in so many directions, all having to do with the human condition and our place in the world. Something so multi-faceted can break us into pieces and put us together again... and open our eyes to a simple world of light and shadow.

"there is no right or wrong answer or theory." 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3542
Location: Valhalla
Quote:
I do science every day now, and have learned to let the data from a well-constructed experiment do the talking. But lacking said data... all we have is expert opinion.


Perfect. That is all that can be asked for. I really don't know if scientific research and numbers can be applied to something as fluid as education. Take one student out of the class on a given day and everything changes.

_________________
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Murphy North Carolina
Hi Fred. This will come from one who has no scientific expertise at all. Mostly from personal experience.

Growing up I was a relatively thin and gangly boy. Got beat up in school a couple of times. So I did what a lot of kids do....I looked for a karate school. My first experiences were not helpful. I'll exclude them. But I did have a positive experience as a teenager. And I believe that that experience helped in the following way. One, this karate teacher was very nurturing. He taught in such a way as to build my self esteem and not knock it down. That early experience also gave me confidence. School yard bullies usually avoid confident people. So the bullying stopped on its own. Plus one for karate. Later I met my current sensei Rick Potrekus. He (and many of my sempei) had a profound impact. This time around I learned the value of hard work. Very hard work. Uechi was not a widely popular style in my home town. Because it was taught in a traditional way and was pretty tough at first. Rick sensei studied under Tosh Itokazu sensei. I worked in a jail at the time. It was a rough time in the early eighties in our jail system. Fights constantly. Once again, martial art gave me confidence. Physical confidence. I weighed in at a whopping 145 at 6'1. Still, even in a jail, inmates don't normally prey on confident Corrections Officers. Many the time in a physical confrontation Uechi conditioning would prevent injury. Another thing I believe gained through a martial art is order. Uncertainty can cause much stress in life. The daily order brought through training brought stability in my day to day life. Another thing gained was responsibility. As I gained skill I was given responsibility to help those who weren't as far along as myself. And to try to instill in them the same things. Another thing gained was community. I realize that this can be gained from other forms of activities. Even gang members have community. But the martial arts community I lived in was a positive one. I am about 750 miles away from my teachers Rick and George down in South Florida. But hardly a week goes by that I don't think of them.
Confidence, Order, Responsibility, Community, Hard work.
That's my story and I'm stickin too it!!
Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 6:01 am
Posts: 454
Location: worcester, ma
The impact of MA training is of course the physical side we all know and the health benefits. There are physiological benefits like improved self esteem that has been promoted for years. Other than that I believe training can be broken into two separate sides of the same coin. One is the physical actions and the mental learning of a skill. The second would be the intuitive creation of personal development. Some people find this side in the “spiritual” Zen side of training but we need not be mystical or change religions to define and experience this deep impactful side of training.
Success guru’s and personal development teachers like Jim Rohn, Brian Tracy, Dale Carnegie, Earl Nightingale and many others have for years taught disciplines and behavioral traits that anyone can cultivate and practice that will improve your life. Some will say “all that feel good junk is just that.. junk”. Well it’s not feel good wishful happy thoughts. Comments like Jim Rohns “profits are better than wages” and “If you want more, then you have to be more” are very common sense well thought out and something we possibly just haven’t thought about before.
From my own personal experience after training in MA for 30 years I happened to read a book by an author that lead me to listen to business philosopher Jim Rohn and many others and what I discovered was that the things they are all talking about that make you successful, are things I learned intuitively from MA. It dawned on me that the habits and actions that made me a successful MA are the same traits that make someone successful in business and in life.

http://youtu.be/8R6tzO39Ia8
http://youtu.be/YuObJcgfSQA
http://youtu.be/vImdJzGI-ik


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3542
Location: Valhalla
Hello,
Thanks for the replies. As I dig deeper into the paper I will comment on some of the aspects of training I find are useful in education.
These may seem like "no brainers" to us, but its a good exercise I think to bring them out.
One of the first I have written about in the paper is Repetition.
This may seem obvious to many of you but it can be challenging to educators.
It takes skill to mask repetition as a teacher. I am terrible at math but thank goodness my teachers forced me to learn the times tables.
Don't all teachers do that still?
Guess again.

In some respects I am talking about teaching children here. Although adults might not like repetition either if it is something they are not interested in, or tire of.

Reflecting on how I use this in the dojo in teaching kata, I may vary the speeds of the kata, I may separate the class into groups of two and have them do kata for one another. I may have them develop a bunkai for the kata. I may have them demonstrate the kata for the class. You probably do the same.

If you have students that quit, you can't always place the blame on them, it may be the lack of disguising the repetition we all know we need to grow as martial artists.

_________________
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17040
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Fred

You might want to read a chapter in this book.

Image

Here's an external discussion of an important chapter in that book.

..... 10,000 Hours of Practice

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Martial arts impact
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3542
Location: Valhalla
Great link Bill thanks.

_________________
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group