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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:48 am
Posts: 436
How about its part of the court mandated anger management

And without it the meds just don't seem to work


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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Location: Banff AB
Van Canna wrote:
Interesting indeed, Laird...hard to argue against your views.

And what do we tell people when they ask about our study of a martial art?

Ever hear this? ''So you want to have guns for self protection and you study a martial art...what are you afraid of ??"
"Very little!" :wink:

Very common position for this lot to attempt to portray anyone who trains or carries as having an irrational fear of an event that will "never happen." After all they have lived X number of years and never had a fight. They have not encountered violence in their life, why would you expect too? The debate will be steered no matter what you say to position you as being irrational, emotionally challenged, lacking in interpersonal stills, and as having violent tendencies.

You can nip this all in the bud by responding to their initial question with.

"I find your question personal, and your comments insulting! Whats next,questions and opinions in regards to my religious beliefs, political views or sexual persuasion. I strongly suggest you mind your own business and not concern your self with mine. Consider this your first and final warning back off!"

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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:28 pm 
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Location: Banff AB
We are under no obligation to justify why we are involved in legal pursuits. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:19 am 
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01 ... d-for-him/

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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:11 am 
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Laird
Quote:
The debate will be steered no matter what you say to position you as being irrational, emotionally challenged, lacking in interpersonal skills, and as having violent tendencies.


This is the real problem. The moment a person is successful to engage you in a conversation on the subject of the why of guns and or martial arts…any response we give will have hues of emotional high-jacking and we will surely create the wrong impression, if not on the person asking_ on other people at a dinner party for example, especially if this question is a asked by a woman at the table.

You don't want to appear flippant in your answers or aggressive or you make that person's day.

This did happen to me at a dinner party…I was boiling inside but just replied that my profession required a concealed weapon and personal defensive skills. When asked about my profession I only said I worked for a State agency something I could not discuss.

If they know what your real job is…you can always say you have another job you cannot discuss.

Or you may say 'Sorry, but that's my business and I don't care to discuss it' best not to get drawn into any kind of gun rights discussions because there is no way to reason with those people.

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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:23 am 
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I guess the thing to remember is that We don’t live in a perfect world.

We live in a world where douchebags exist. Sad, negative, wicked people who are constantly looking for a reason to unleash their predatory instincts. People who are so trapped in their insecurities and themselves that they need to spew their primal judgement on you.

Some people seemed to have gotten into genuine trouble – including physical altercations and life-or-death situations – merely by telling the wrong person, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, that they practice Karate.

Best not to tell anyone you study martial arts and or carry any weapons, if you do, and remove any tell tales signs from your clothing or your car or sooner or later you will become a target.

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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:33 am 
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You've really got it Van , there's all types of people and it doesn't really matter what you do you'll strike some that judge you for whatever it is you decide to do.

don't sweat the small stuff I guess , don't feel the need to justify yourself , yeah and I guess if you feel the need to put yourself out there then expect to attract attention good and bad .


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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
Ok, important questions..

you're in a mall or other crowded venue) with your family (or alone) you hear gunfire and people are starting to run past you yelling "gun!"
You are carrying.

do you..
flee with everyone else if possible? (first instinct?)
draw and take cover?
draw and run towards the gunfire to prevent carnage?
problem with drawing is that you'd be a sitting duck should anyone else behaves the same as you or if law enforcement shows up and you're the one they see armed.
what to do?


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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:50 am 
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Hi Kevin,

Good to see you post again…long time…hope all is well. Don't you wish we could go back to days of our great Norwood dojo?

Good questions, and no easy answers.
Quote:
In the wake of the unthinkable massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, pro-gun ideologues are once again calling for ordinary citizens to arm themselves as a solution to mass shootings. If only the principal at Sandy Hook Elementary School had possessed a M-4 assault rifle she could've stopped the killer, they say. This latest twist on a long-running argument isn't just absurd on its face; there is no evidence to support it. As I reported recently in our in-depth investigation, not one of 62 mass shootings in the United States over the last 30 years has been stopped this way. More broadly, attempts by armed civilians to intervene in shooting rampages are rare—and are successful even more rarely. (Two people who tried it in recent years were gravely wounded or killed.) And law enforcement overwhelmingly hates the idea of armed citizens getting involved.



Pulling a gun and trying to intervene to stop a mall gunman is fraught with many dangers:

1. You will immediately be under the control of a massive chemical cocktail that will wreak havoc with your abilities to 'reason solutions' Here's what Richard Gibbon wrote
Quote:
One of the major factors will be the cognitive appraisal that is going on about the event while experiencing the simultaneous physical effects. That cognitive appraisal may make a tremendous difference in the response in terms of the emotional reaction and contingent problem solving and decision making abilities and consequent action tendencies.


2. Walking to the 'sounds of guns' with your own gun, not being a professional with back up, will cause one to make many tactical mistakes while caught in the swirl of tunnel vision and tunnel hearing…you may not only be killed by others in the mall caught in a frenzy of fears, you may well cause more people to be exposed to gunfire, you may unintentionally hit a shopper, you might be killed by responding swat teams.

3. If you survive, you will certainly be subject to criminal or civil charges, your good judgment will come under question etc.

~

Best to leave the area or, if cornered, hide in the back of a store if not able to get out through a back door, and while in hiding, keep your gun in your hand behind cover, finger off the trigger, and hope you can get a shot at the shooter before he sees you if he is searching the place of your hiding.

That would be considered the reasonable thing to do in any court action.

Sometimes by our own intervention we may trigger more violence and we will be held liable for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
Thanks for the response, Van.

Sat with Bill Richard at a charity event Saturday night. He was on crutches from arthritis surgery on his ankle. The fun people had in Norwood stays with some all their lives! :)

Great advise. I usually try to avoid malls and crowds that could be targeted by nutjobs.


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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:00 pm 
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Say hello to Bill for me when you see him next, Kevin.

Try to post more often on the forums...it is good to stay connected.

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 Post subject: Re: Deadly Mall Shooting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:28 pm 
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Hi Kevin,
On this mall discussion and being careful when going to places where lots of people mill about, I think it is important to remember something I learned at the 'Duelatron training' with John Farnam...

It is the assessment of space around you that really control the abilities and chances of prevailing in self defense and or survival in a life and death situation such as a shooter in a mall.

Anywhere you may find yourself at that is somewhat confined and crowded, it is the space around you that is of the essence. This is also true when outside on the street [open spaces]...

Where are the entrances and exits?
What obstacles are in the way?
What cover and concealment do I have?
What is the most probably attack threat and angle?

This also helps should a fire or other event break out that causes people to panic and trample each other to death.

BTW, if you have time, it would be nice to have lunch one of these days, you can PM me to arrange it if OK with you.

Thanks.

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