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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:13 am 
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Laird: "Bash the brain stem, Knee the face, twist the neck, close the wind pipe, stop the blood from reaching the brain! Thanks for lowering you head! (why kick or knee low)"

That sounds like karate. First rule of karate: We don't talk about karate. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:39 am
Posts: 22
:D

I apologise for my sudden absence. Laptop power issues. New adapter arrived yesterday. But now I'm having keyboard issues! Typing between keyboard and on-screen keyboard for missing letters. No backspace or delete.

Glad to know that the idea is seen as having some merit.

Will post again when issue resolved.

Richard


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:08 am 
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Location: worcester, ma
i have not given any thought to the "standard" bunkai in at least 15 years so my memory of it was a little fuzzy. i think it is a good starting point but if you only define your martial art by testing standards there can be no creativity. i prefer indepth thought and a little trial and error. find what works for you. if i remember the 3rd movement, i had been taught a double (hand over hand) nukite to the windpipe then grab the arms and pull into a knee. my bunkai preference is to use the hand over hand action with elbows slightly spread and used to plow through the arms like the front of a ship through water then the left arm grabs the shoulder or upper arm while the right hand hooks behind the neck pulling down to the knee,(my right arm will be on the right side of his neck, great option for a radial arm strike to the neck) i never liked to pull someones face down into my own, white belts do that all the time with the bunkai standard. i find with the behind the head hook i have my forearm between me and the attacker, this allows for more controll and better positioning for follow up strikeing. this is just one example of creative thinking after all this is an ART.


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:07 am 
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The powerful two handed chest shove, especially if by a large opponent, is only marginally worked in the bunkai applications with a 'face off' response action which is not to really going to work against a charge by a 250 lbs + agitated opponent.

Think about what we do in bunkai to deal with it.

And why is a forceful two handed shove into your chest so common?
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Why is the push attack so common? Look at the natural progression of most confrontations. Many physical attacks do not occur unexpectedly. There are often at least three stages of confrontation that build upon each other toward physical aggression.

The initial level, posturing, often begins when someone takes offense at another’s words or actions. Posturing can also be instigated when someone feels threatened either physically or socially. Whether the offense or threat is intended makes no difference in the confrontation. The actions taken at this stage may include harsh words and an aggressive physical stance.

If the initial phase is not successfully defused by the martial artist, the second level of pushing or grabbing is reached. But between a grab and a push, the push is more common, probably because it is the least committal of the two attacks. When grabbing the attacker must have his next step planned; not so with a push. A push can establish superiority with minimal commitment on the aggressor’s part and it requires no training or skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:08 am 
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Often times too, the aggressor is larger and stronger than his victim. A push uses his strength and weight to his advantage. A push makes the attacker appear superior by creating the visually impressive effect of moving the defender across a lot of space. Also, a push makes for an easy surprise attack, with little physical cues such as making a fist or winding up to warn the defender.

Unfortunately, however, few are trained in how to defend against the initial push attack. Reacting incorrectly at this level could prove very detrimental to the defender. At best the result will be the squaring off of the two opponents. At worst, without a proper response, a push can put the victim in a hard-to-defend position such as losing his or her balance and falling, or being pushed back against a wall or other object, into a group of others who might be the aggressor’s cohorts, or further away from an exit.

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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:09 am 
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In this situation the confrontation could quickly escalate to the third, tertiary level, where the confrontation escalates into punching (where the aggressor grabs and strikes with hands or feet) or grappling.

But this third level can be avoided. A martial artist can maneuver himself to an advantageous position if he responds properly. Self-defense training and kata can prepare us to respond to this secondary level attack, preventing the escalation to a tertiary level of confrontation.

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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:12 am 
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Why do aggressive people resort to the push as an attack? (Note that the push is an attack. It is a threat to the victim’s safety and grounds for physical response.) Ultimately, the push is intended to place the attacker in a superior position. If the attacker is among friends, the push may be used to signal the attacker’s superior “social position,” an action designed to show that the attacker is superior (higher in the pecking order).In the case of the unwarranted and unexpected attack of the mugger or rapist, the intention is to establish a “superior physical position” as discussed above.

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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:09 pm 
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A good teacher doesn't teach bunkai but principles.

Wonder what this really means.

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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:18 pm 
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The one problem I see in all teaching is that generally a teacher gets so lost in the technique he is trying to get across, that he never even talks about some of the bunkai applications from the kata, requiring an understanding of their effectiveness dependent upon the body type of the defender and/or the assailant, all based on the dynamics, size and strength of both the defender and the assailant.

This is the most critical 'concept' to learn in any of the moves we teach.

The bunkai or individual techniques we teach or find taught at seminars and guest instructors, must reflect the concepts that kata ingrains as to how to move, how to use specific muscles or muscle groups to perform certain movements effectively.

But most critical, as the kata reflects, It also teaches you how to change directions and how to place yourself in a certain angle in relation to a potential opponent.

Then there are the concepts of violence dynamics found on the street not on a dojo floor or sparring tournament...the kind of dynamics researched and taught by violence professionals, such as Rory as one example.

Another very important concept to keep 'floating' in the dojo is the maxim of 'Don't start anything you can't finish'_ Think about that for a moment when teaching classes.

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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:29 pm 
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One thing to be constantly aware of is that combat is VERY variable. Any move you are learning will have to be performed differently if the opponent is taller, shorter, moving forward, moving back, etc, etc.

It is foolish to tell a student that a single example you are teaching is the only valid way the motion can be performed...if...to be performed at all...the 'don't start anything you can't finish' theory.

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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:33 pm 
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I've always said that the best block is not to be there. When we all practice the slight angles given to us, we must also practice the "Hair Trigger" response. We can do this in the bunkai. When doing any bunkai, your rapid strike has to explode as you are finishing the off center movement. If not, the attacker can reload. The one piece movements I constantly speak of, will enable you to get this done. Your striking power comes from over all body mechanics. Meaning your block, if there is one, feet settling, and strike, happen at the same time. This will allow for a strong counter, and not allow for any reloading. This will take practice, but it can be learned. Bunkai's must not be thought of in only one way. To do a bunkai only one way is asking for a rude awakening. Work the hands to coordinate with any sliding or stepping. I prefer to slide. It's quicker. Keeping the hands in front at 10 & 2 will make it easier to coordinate the rapid strike as you angle away. Easier said than done, but you can get real fast with this with an ample amount of drilling."What else can you do here?" is something I say when I teach bunkai. Good topic with good responses. ------Art

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Art Rabesa


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:01 am 
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Good post Art...and the way to think of the practice of bunkai and stopping shots, if they are to be brought into action.

It is best to indoctrinate our students on the floor that in any conflict, always expect for weapons coming into play.

On the dojo floor_There is much of hypothesis and extrapolation from principles and comparisons of force. But no one knows how it will go down when the adrenaline is flowing and the fight is for all the marbles, as the saying goes.

I have provided a number of real life examples I investigated on the 'block' thread that focuses on this reality of life.

The students on the floor are exposed to a number of reputable sources who often contradict one another. For the average student...It is difficult to know who is most worthy of consideration, in addition to the fact that students on the floor have varying levels of comprehension, dedication, and facility.

Defending successfully requires thinking differently about problem-solving. This is where I see much misconception as pointed out by the lethal force trainers at the LFI.

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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:46 pm 
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Ian Abernathy
Quote:
The katas were never designed for fighting other karateka; they were intended to be a record of realistic techniques for use in a civilian environment (self-protection). In real situations, people do not assume a stance and then execute an oi-zuki from ten-feet away! -

Once you have gained an understanding of the practical application of the techniques of the kata, you should begin to include variations of those techniques in your training. It should be remembered that a kata is meant to record an entire, stand-alone combative system.

However, it would not be practical to record every single aspect of that system or the kata would become ridiculously long. It would be far better to record techniques that succinctly express the key principles of the system.

I believe that Otsuka is telling us to practise varying the applications of the kata or else we run the risk of being 'stuck' in the form and hence becoming limited fighters. We need to follow Otsuka's advice and practise so that the form can be utilised, without hesitation, in any situation in which we should find ourselves.
-

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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:20 pm 
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Great post by Art - should be broadcasted all over.

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Rick Wilson - http://wpd-rc.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Seisan bunkai
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:39 pm 
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Another way to learn to self protect on the streets is 'some street smarts.' Something you will have difficulty getting in karate classes.

Rick: your ideas on this?

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