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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 1999 8:59 pm 
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Lori,

Thanks for getting this up. Also, the reason I am posting this here is that Strong gives many examples where women, supposedly the "weaker" sex, put up an effective fight once they had determined that the injury of resistance cannot be worse than the eventual injury and possible death from compliance. These examples, one of a 12 year old girl against a rapist/murderer, were inspiring.

I think Strong makes my "must read" list. Regards,

david

[This message has been edited by david (edited 02-23-99).]


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 1999 5:34 am 
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This is actually David's post - mentioned in the "Strong on Defense" thread - he had trouble posting it so emailed it to me...He raises most excellent points and outlines strategies to formulate a stronger mindset based on his reading and experience.

Thank you David for an excellent post!

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Debecker talks about how the bad guy (BG) uses various approaches to break down a victim’s initial distrust -- intuition that something’s not right. These include the “forced teamup” -- “C’mon open the door, WE’ll get that tired changed”; or the plead for the victim’s help -- “Can you help me find my lost dog?” The goal is to ease the victim and bring him/her into control. Failing to heed the instinct, the victim falls ever closer to the BG’s control.

Once the victim is in pretty good control, the BG cements it with fear -- “Don’t move/scream/resist or I’ll HURT you!” If the victim fears injury, then s/he becomes totally paralysed and totally under control. Strong advocates strongly that we mindset against the fear of injury. As he states it, compliance “seems like the way to escape injury. But, in fact, blind obedience makes it easier for him to switch from a quick theft to violence against you.” Part of mindsetting is to realize that the attacker probably has done this before, that he doesn’t have your well being at heart, that his promise to not hurt you if you comply is a LIE, that if he is not willing to hurt you, he would not have preyed on you in the first place. The second part of mindsetting is to see yourself escaping, resisting and even sustaining injuries in the process. The latter is important -- see yourself getting injured -- stabbed, shot,etc. -- but still committed to resistance and escape. This mindsetting will help you overcome fear and inaction.

“Fear can paralyze and panic the strongest of us or fill the weakest with courage beyond any degree they’ve ever known -- courage driven by a rage-filled determination. Which will it be for you, if you are ever targeted for a violent crime, depends on which you fear most: injury against yourself in trying to escape or control by the attacker and his crimes against you?”

Strong offers four basic rules, based on his experiences and his knowledge of various crimes committed against persons:

1. React immediately -- your best chance to escape violence and minimize injury is in the first seconds.

2. Resist -- you only alternative is to submit; both choices are lousy, but resisting gives you the best chance.

3. Crime Scene #2 -- always more isolated than the initial point of contact, and always worse for you.

4. Never, never give up -- your attitude can keep you alive when you’re badly injured.

While Strong is preaching to the general public and is talking about “visualization”, as martial artists we have opportunity through practice to actually face our fear of injury. Learn to handle pain and to work through it in the dojo. I personally found this useful in real confrontations. Unless, you’ve been knocked out or generally incapacitated, you can fight through the pain by FIGHTING the opponent.

david

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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 1999 6:40 am 
David:

Great post.

Rick


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 1999 4:42 am 
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< "Fear can paralyze and panic the strongest of us or fill the weakest
with courage beyond any degree they've ever known -- courage
driven by a rage-filled determination. " >


Good post by David ! A few comments :

1] Buy the book by Sanford Strong !

2] Remember that the best dojo technician will always be marginal in a street fight because street fighting is not an exact science ; it is ugly , brutal and messy and very unpredictable for the martial artist . And you will be incredibly alone at that moment !

3 ] Stop deluding ourselves that we have a magic talisman in our prowess on the dojo floor ; you could have a colt .45 in your hand and still be in jeopardy !

4] Determined enraged , violent , big beefy assailants can take tremendous punishment , kicks, punches , pressure point strikes , bullets and knife wounds , and still keep on coming ! Talk to someone who has been the victim of a psycho mugger and you will believe !

5] So can you under the kick of the adrenaline dump ; you will not feel much pain during the fight even through broken bones and smashed face ! But only if you are totally committed to prevail in a ruthless manner or you will revert to "prey mode" feeling all the pain , your brain shutting down in 'primal acceptance' of immolation !

6] Stop believing that in karate you do not strike first ! Sanchin starts with a strike !
If you believe that our system was patterned from wild animals then you must believe that such animals do not block when attacked ! They attack you in defense ! Try it if you don't believe it ! Your fight will be won in aggressive attack!

7] Stop believing that strength and powerful shocking delivery of technique is not necessary in the heat of battle ! This will never sink through ! You will need to use your strength in so many different ways hard to imagine along with your kyusho targeting ! If you do not develop explosive power in your techniques you are not really a martial artist as much as you would like to delude yourself !

8] Having assimilated the above concepts , physically and mentally , now you must cultivate a controlled ferocity and ruthless determination without any sympathy or consideration for your opponent or you will not be able to navigate through your fear and panic of injury or death ! A knife [ very effective weapon for close quarters battle] is useless in the hands of the one lacking a ruthless mindset ! Easier said than done for most of us of a civilized behavior , especially for women who are more compassionate and trusting , and in general , more sensitive , loving and caring then men ! Can it be done? Think of what you must do to educate your subconscious !


< < "Fear can paralyze and panic the strongest of us or fill the weakest
with courage beyond any degree they've ever known -- courage
driven by a rage-filled determination. " > Strong




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Van Canna


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 1999 12:08 pm 
Thanks for the post, David. It was excellent.

I’d like to comment on one or two Van’s responses.

<font color=blue>2] …street fighting is not an exact science … and very unpredictable for the martial artist.</font>

Getting popped while working with a ‘brave’ new white belt or doing bunkai and kumite as a member of another style’s dojo (a kiai for cross training) can give us a piece of “Unpredicatability Training.” Although it falls far short of street fighting, it can show you just how good -- or not -– your canned techniques are.

<font color=blue>8] < < "Fear can paralyze and panic the strongest of us or fill the weakest
with courage beyond any degree they've ever known -- courage
driven by a rage-filled determination. " > Strong </font>

One scary, not talked about yet, feature of fear is when you suddenly find yourself hyperventilating and you know you must control it immediately, else you are going to die. The conscious part of the mind says ”What’s going on? I’m not scared. No big deal. I’m in control.” You may have a strong body and mind, and a brave spirit, but somehow, for whatever the situation may be, the subconscious kicks in and dictates in its own secret insidious manner: “I can’t take this s**t no more and I'm gonna let him know about it right now.” and automatically takes over – shallow breathing, racing pulse, faint faint (not a typo) feelings because of lack of oxygen. Now you are fighting both self and exterior force at the same time in a compounded situation which can quickly take your life; you are truly alone.

I suspect hyperventilation can also happen in pre-fight stages because you run the same gamut of adrenelin flow, thoughts and strategies of how you are going to make it, confidence level, emotions, and stresses. Be aware of it and recognize it early if it does happen. -- Writings from an incident experienced as a young adult, one which I never forgot. Story but true.

[This message has been edited by moulton (edited 02-28-99).]


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 1999 3:40 pm 
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Allen-san,

Excellent comment ! Some of you may recall my postings on hypervigilance and hyperventilation in my old forum!

Here I like the works of Bruce Siddle !

The truth of the matter is that deep inside __ the martial artist, who has only been playing at fighting in his mind and in the controlled environments of the dojo or tournament halls , when suddenly confronted by a potential life threatening event finds himself in 'visceral response' mode , i.e., the primitive brain shuts down the thinking cortex ! The primitive brain knows the truth , i.e., the conscious mind has only been playing at fighting and the outcome may be less than successful given the threat level looming up ahead !

So you are kicked into hypervigilance mode ,i.e., the primal brain's questioning of the body's ability to survive ! This anxious state slams the door open to hyperventilation ___ a stress response action !

Hyperventilation : " the reduction of CO2 in the blood stream and a concomitant lowering of blood acid level, numerous systemic alterations are likely to occur in the body . These include increased sympathetic activity , changes in renal function , increased risk of cardiac dysrhythmias , elevation of the heart rate , decreased oxygen supply to brain tissue, and heightened cerebral vasoconstriction " { Siddle}

Now , as I have said before many times , this is not what the 'cocoon visionaries' like to hear , and they huff and they puff as they clutch their black belts and their diplomas as good luck talismans !

In my work I deal with some real experts in the medical and psychiatric fields to prepare cases for trial ! When occasionally posing the question to them about Uechi- breathing under stress , their feeling is that it may program to compound the person's natural hyperventilation stage ! But what do they really know _right ? We are martial artists and we have all the answers , especially we of the " right lineage " right?

In contrast , Siddle reports that we need to voluntarily modify our breathing patterns with slow deep breaths expanding the belly and the lungs !

Unlike shallow rapid breaths through the nose in between kata movements ? How deep do you really think you can breathe in between Kata moves at a good clip? Oh my , what a can of worms * smile* !!


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Van Canna


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 1999 8:38 pm 
Ok, Van, I'll pick at the can of worms a little.

This hyperventilating 'thing' I wrote about has nothing to do with style or lineage, or even karate. It is something which is part of a person's internal makeup. Only one time in my life did that 'thing' kick off, and I was not under any kind of stress at the time - until it hapened; that's when I got concerned. I thought it was either a panic attack, or I was starting to panic because of what was going on and immediately concentrated on controlling my breathing and slowing my heart rate down which were out of control. I'm not sure if that worked, or whether the 'thing' just ran its course.

I honestly think that it can happen to anyone and we have no warning nor do we have contol over its occurrance. I also feel that no one is above that type of occurance, but it is how we deal with it at the time that counts. And it can happen only once and never again.

The shallow breathing during kata performance at a good clip? Forget it. This is where you separate kata from breathing.<font color=red>
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Allen at [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> on <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]

[This message has been edited by moulton (edited 02-28-99).]


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 1999 10:23 pm 
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Hi Allen,

< This hyperventilating 'thing' I wrote about has nothing to do with
style or lineage, or even karate. >

True , but some people believe it does and that because of their training , they will be immune !

< Only one time in my life did that 'thing'
kick off, and I was not under any kind of stress at the time - until it
happened; that's when I got concerned. >

Siddle's research proposes that hyperventilation is always a stress response whether the conscious mind realizes it or not ! Stress is at times a question of subliminal perception insidiously assaulting the senses !

In the gift of fear , De Becker says : " is the emergence of man as we know him ; a hyper-anxious animal who constantly invents reasons for anxiety even when there are none "

AND :

" When it comes to survival signals , our minds have already done their best work by the time we try to figure things out " i.e., your intuition has already communicated something to you creating a psychological impact that disquiets you !

Subconscious predictions , trigger uncertainty , which triggers anxiety , which triggers underlying stress , which may trigger hyperventilation ~

OR: " Gut feeling is a cognitive process, faster than we recognize "

OR: "when in fact intuition is soaring flight compared to the plodding of logic "

OR:" just as when we see a cat or dog awake suddenly from a nap and stare down intently into a dark hallway "

And finally De Becker indicates that we may perceive danger chemically , just as some animals do , thus triggering natural responses !

Thus < Siddle's research proposes that hyperventilation is always a stress response whether the conscious mind realizes it or not ! >

Fascinating subject !

Peace ,



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Van Canna


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 1999 11:43 pm 
Hello Van.

Fascinating Subject? And I just let it be for all these years. Now, I am curious.

I am hesitant to mention the 'incident' because on the surface it may seem unrelated to this post, but I think it is exactly related to this post. Fear has nothing to do with karate, although karate can bring it out in the open, but everything to do with the self.

I wonder if what you said: "<font color=blue>Subconscious predictions , trigger uncertainty , which triggers anxiety , which triggers underlying stress , which may trigger hyperventilation ~"</font> holds true, and there was a subconscious fear which built up through the years and one day - Snap! This is a good one for the good doctors McKnight and Geilla if they wish to comment on it.<font color=red>
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Allen at [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> on <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]


[This message has been edited by moulton (edited 02-28-99).]


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 1999 1:13 am 
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Allen,

< Fear has nothing to do with karate, although karate can
bring it out in the open, but everything to do with the self. >

True ! It is a primal survival response pure and simple ! It has been documented that the fear response , once harnessed and welcomed as a friend , will turn into the great equalizer , allowing a physically inferior person to momentarily exude superhuman strength and resolve and destroy a much larger , more dangerous opponent ! Add the right karate moves which hold up under stress , the explosive power and the iron will to survive at all costs [mindset] and you have a pretty good chance to make it home !

Siddle reports that studies by Dr. Grossman reveal that hypervigilance / hyperventilation , can result from the perception of a threat and the person's lack of internalized confidence in his ability to control the threat !

I don't know what happened to you , but there must have been some underlying situation which somehow was suddenly triggered by something you were exposed to ! You may want to e-mail Drs Knight and Giella for a personal discussion !

Regards,




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Van Canna


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 1999 6:02 am 
My Anthony, time flies. I couldn't get to the center on your picture. Maybe that is how to avoid fear.

Van,

The following is the remainder rest of my previous post.

I hate to admit ever having been afraid, but at my age, I don't care any more. This forum is for education, and maybe I can learn something about myself in the fear department.

I was almost never afraid of any creature or anything in or under the water in those days, EVEN during numerous tense moments underwater. 'Courage' and 'brave' I called it then. Crap! Young man's stupidity and false immortality is what it was.

What happened could have been the result of years of supressed or subconscious fears "coming to the surface" all at once. Looking back, that is what I think sometimes.

I was spearfishing in the rocks off the coast of Newport, scanning the bottom for Tautaug (sp?), was very peaceful with myself like I usually was, and nothing particularly exciting going on when I got into trouble.
------------------
Allen at [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> on <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]

[This message has been edited by moulton (edited 03-01-99).]


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 1999 11:28 pm 
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One of my teachers often said that F E A R is nothing but Fantasy Experienced As Reality. He firmly believes that it's your viewing point of a situation being played out in the mind.

Or as Van Canna expressed, ..." your intuition has already communicated something to you creating a psychological impact that
disquiets you ! "

Fear has to do with what is not known. It's often not knowing what is going to happen that throws me into a turmoil. It's like having one foot in the past, one in the future while I'm straddling the present.

Jackie


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 1999 12:21 am 
Hello Anthony.

I was concentrating on shooting fish when I had begun hyperventilating for no apparant reason. I then dropped my weight belt as I swam like hell for the surface. Once there I popped my BC then dealt with the situation until it smoothed itself out. I mentioned what I thought was going on internally in the posts above.

BTW, we don't have reefs up here, rather plenty of ugly slippery rocks.

[This message has been edited by moulton (edited 03-01-99).]


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 1999 10:45 pm 
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Allen,

Did this happen in the seventies when the movie 'jaws' came out ? Had you ever read that spear fishing [ blood and squirming] can attract sharks " ?

Just a thought ! There could be more to this ! But I had the same strange feeling , when , after watching that stupid movie , I went swimming in the beautiful Mediterranean sea of Positano Italy, and had to get out of the water !


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Van Canna


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 Post subject: Mindsetting on Fear
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 1999 6:49 am 
Van Sensei:

A bunch of us saw Jaws at a drive-in and then went up to the lake. We went for a late night/early morning swim. In a fresh water LAKE, and we got that same feeling and got out! It was one powerful movie.

Rick


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