Why in the world are beginning women subjected to the ridiculous idea that they can block a grown man's punch power on power?
Even more laughable is the kanshiwa bunkai overhead attack defense where a woman is supposed to stop the shoulder of a guy. 95% of the time this will get her clobbered on the head.
Uechi is full of ways to deflect rather than meet power. Why do we wait until so late to focus on these skills?
end rant.
Dana
[This message has been edited by dmsdc (edited November 26, 2001).]
Power on Power - for men only
Moderator: Available
-
Allen M.
Power on Power - for men only
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I don't know where these habits originate, or how they stick, but often when an alternative is provided, the defender appears to be very strong. Headstrong, that is on resisting advice to at least try it.
Those types of things are well-peppered throught the exercises enough to want to make you sneeze.
------------------
Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
Even more laughable is guys trying to jam that attack against stronger guys. I don't think they get it that deflection and redirection is easy, and sometimes the only way that works.Even more laughable is the kanshiwa bunkai overhead attack defense where a woman is supposed to stop the shoulder of a guy. 95% of the time this will get her clobbered on the head.
I don't know where these habits originate, or how they stick, but often when an alternative is provided, the defender appears to be very strong. Headstrong, that is on resisting advice to at least try it.
Those types of things are well-peppered throught the exercises enough to want to make you sneeze.
------------------
Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
Power on Power - for men only
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
To answer this we must analyze the components of an overhead attack.
Club attacks usually initiate at longer ranges and either result in one handed “cave manning” or swinging a larger
Bludgeon [baseball bat, axe handle etc.] like a batter.
According to Tony Blauer, if someone comes running at you with a bat, hesitation, freezing and denial are the common behavioral responses.
This makes it difficult to “sabaki” around the attack. The flinch and startle reflex will cause you to hunch your shoulders and lift your hands to your head.
But, back away and you are moving your head and body towards the fastest part of the club.
It has been proven that the best chance at survival is to get inside the stick.
This means you must rush in and jam the attacker violently, trying to time your rushing with the attackers cocking of the weapon.
The idea is to try and gain control of the weapon arm and the weapon if you can.
Once inside, if you are not strong enough to smash the shoulder or snap the head back with a palm heel, and then you must follow with eye gouges while going ballistic.
The idea is not to give the swinger a chance to swing again.
The way our bunkai is taught, with a one handed circular block on the club arm, is a dysfunctional approach in my opinion.
We cock the elbow too soon anticipating a strike which will never materialize unless the opponent is first rocked by a two handed rush through the center of his upswing.
Not easy to do, and much safer to run away from the threat if possible, although the possibility does exist that you will die tired if you run, giving the adversary a clear shot to the back of the head.
In spite of martial arts training or any other training, club attacks, especially baseball bat attacks, statistically have a high record of fatalities.
Victims are usually overwhelmed by the sheer ferocity of it. And once the assailant gets any kind of space between his bat and the victim, he usually hits again, and again, inflicting terrible injuries.
------------------
Van Canna
Hi Dana__ good points.Even more laughable is the kanshiwa bunkai overhead attack defense where a woman is supposed to stop the shoulder of a guy. 95% of the time this will get her clobbered on the head.
To answer this we must analyze the components of an overhead attack.
Club attacks usually initiate at longer ranges and either result in one handed “cave manning” or swinging a larger
Bludgeon [baseball bat, axe handle etc.] like a batter.
According to Tony Blauer, if someone comes running at you with a bat, hesitation, freezing and denial are the common behavioral responses.
This makes it difficult to “sabaki” around the attack. The flinch and startle reflex will cause you to hunch your shoulders and lift your hands to your head.
But, back away and you are moving your head and body towards the fastest part of the club.
It has been proven that the best chance at survival is to get inside the stick.
This means you must rush in and jam the attacker violently, trying to time your rushing with the attackers cocking of the weapon.
The idea is to try and gain control of the weapon arm and the weapon if you can.
Once inside, if you are not strong enough to smash the shoulder or snap the head back with a palm heel, and then you must follow with eye gouges while going ballistic.
The idea is not to give the swinger a chance to swing again.
The way our bunkai is taught, with a one handed circular block on the club arm, is a dysfunctional approach in my opinion.
We cock the elbow too soon anticipating a strike which will never materialize unless the opponent is first rocked by a two handed rush through the center of his upswing.
Not easy to do, and much safer to run away from the threat if possible, although the possibility does exist that you will die tired if you run, giving the adversary a clear shot to the back of the head.
In spite of martial arts training or any other training, club attacks, especially baseball bat attacks, statistically have a high record of fatalities.
Victims are usually overwhelmed by the sheer ferocity of it. And once the assailant gets any kind of space between his bat and the victim, he usually hits again, and again, inflicting terrible injuries.
------------------
Van Canna
Power on Power - for men only
There's a very interesting article in this months' Black Belt magazine; it has a guy in combat gear on the cover; anyway, an article on "blunt weapon" i.e. club attacks.For those who haven't seen it, it's an eye opener.
It's called "Reality of the Club" and it contains some raw statistics such as:
Q:"Do clubbing attacks come straight overhead like you see in MA demonstrations?"
A:" No. Most clubbing attacks are diagonal strikes aimed at the left side of the defender's head. The overhead down stroke is the least common method. MA's tend to train against down strokes,thrusts,rising blows and horizontal strokes. All four angles of attack are rare in the real world."
Q:" What is the worst place to be hit by a club...what do I need to defend?"
A:" The ear area-especially when struck with a horizontal blow, and the back of the head are the most damaging locations."
The author addresses some other interesting points; it's a good article.
One thing's for sure: you'd better be either inside or outside the swing, because the area of lethality is the tip of the club.
Outside means both you and they get another chance. Inside means you're out of the frying pan...
In Kanshiwa bunkai, our class doesn't do the double shuto to the club arm. We do the single Wauke to the club hand/wrist while stepping into a horse to lower the target (the head)and simultaneously ripping the elbow strike diagonally upward in a rib/sternum/chin path.
This way each action serves a useful purpose, and if one is not 100% successful, the other two supporting actions (hopefully) compensate to make the overall triple move work.
True story: I pulled up and walked into a nightclub to collect my gear one sunny Sunday afternoon. Upon opening the door, the first thing I saw was a very drunk patron with a half broom stick, poised to swing.
I wasn't physically frozen, but I did an instant stop-look-judge.. He wasn't coming after me, but rather a bouncer inside who had apparently ousted him earlier, and he had gone to his pad nearby, broken a broomstick in two and come back with the weapon. I didn't know this until later however!
Only point is: it can happen at the most unexpected time, how will you react, and yes it was a classic club attack.
Luckily not directed at me!
It's called "Reality of the Club" and it contains some raw statistics such as:
Q:"Do clubbing attacks come straight overhead like you see in MA demonstrations?"
A:" No. Most clubbing attacks are diagonal strikes aimed at the left side of the defender's head. The overhead down stroke is the least common method. MA's tend to train against down strokes,thrusts,rising blows and horizontal strokes. All four angles of attack are rare in the real world."
Q:" What is the worst place to be hit by a club...what do I need to defend?"
A:" The ear area-especially when struck with a horizontal blow, and the back of the head are the most damaging locations."
The author addresses some other interesting points; it's a good article.
One thing's for sure: you'd better be either inside or outside the swing, because the area of lethality is the tip of the club.
Outside means both you and they get another chance. Inside means you're out of the frying pan...
In Kanshiwa bunkai, our class doesn't do the double shuto to the club arm. We do the single Wauke to the club hand/wrist while stepping into a horse to lower the target (the head)and simultaneously ripping the elbow strike diagonally upward in a rib/sternum/chin path.
This way each action serves a useful purpose, and if one is not 100% successful, the other two supporting actions (hopefully) compensate to make the overall triple move work.
True story: I pulled up and walked into a nightclub to collect my gear one sunny Sunday afternoon. Upon opening the door, the first thing I saw was a very drunk patron with a half broom stick, poised to swing.
I wasn't physically frozen, but I did an instant stop-look-judge.. He wasn't coming after me, but rather a bouncer inside who had apparently ousted him earlier, and he had gone to his pad nearby, broken a broomstick in two and come back with the weapon. I didn't know this until later however!
Only point is: it can happen at the most unexpected time, how will you react, and yes it was a classic club attack.
Luckily not directed at me!
-
Bruce Hirabayashi
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Tue May 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Frederick County, MD USA
Power on Power - for men only
Hi Dana:
You wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmsdc:
Why in the world are beginning women subjected to the ridiculous idea that they can block a grown man's punch power on power?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
and
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmsdc:
Uechi is full of ways to deflect rather than meet power. Why do we wait until so late to focus on these skills?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To take a slightly different tack from the other replies, I believe the techniques taught have to do with the experience of the student, the simplification assumptions we make as teachers when we first broach a complex topic and the ability of the teacher to recognize when the student is ready for something more sophisticated.
When we teach beginners math, we start easy, with (for example) addition and subtraction of whole numbers. Only when students have gotten a reasonable command of the basics, do we introduce variables and simple real-world applications. Later on down the road, we begin to talk about quadratic equations, partial derivatives, imaginary numbers, etc. and the applications for such techniques.
Anyway, you get the idea. What simplification assumptions do we make for Uechi beginners? Generally, that
- the attacker is the same size as you
- the attacker throws only one well defined, clean attack, then stops
- etc.
Moreover, we make sure that if an attack actually gets thru the beginner's defenses, that the attacker pulls the attack before the beginner gets hurt.
In a good learning environment, once the beginner has gained enough confidence to effectively deal with someone her own size who attacks repetively in a relatively simplistic fashion, we should, as teachers, begin to begin slowly add layers of sophistication and realism to the attacks and responses. What if the person uses a different attack? What if they throw two attacks? What if they are a lot bigger, quicker, stronger, nastier, uglier than you? Given these new challenges, supplied when the student is ready for the challenge, the student's response should gradually also become more and more sophisticated, effective and realistic. A good student will notice themselves that the technique taught at first is no longer adequate for a more fluid, less structured situation. In a ideal world, the student ultimately begins to think independently and creatively about about simplifying assumptions and "unrealistic" techniques, thus challenging and pushing / stimulating their teachers to consider new varibles and applications ... creating an upwards spiral of technique sophistication and understanding.
Again, I know you know all of this. My point is that we SHOULD, as teachers, begin with the simple, if "less-than-effective-in-a-real-situation" techniques. The question is are we paying enough attention to notice when the student is ready for more? Or worse: have we failed to extend our own technique and ability beyond simplistic original assumptions? As Sensei George Mattson (and others) have put it ... does the teacher have several years of experience, or one year of experience several times?
Bruce
[This message has been edited by Bruce Hirabayashi (edited December 19, 2001).]
You wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmsdc:
Why in the world are beginning women subjected to the ridiculous idea that they can block a grown man's punch power on power?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
and
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmsdc:
Uechi is full of ways to deflect rather than meet power. Why do we wait until so late to focus on these skills?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To take a slightly different tack from the other replies, I believe the techniques taught have to do with the experience of the student, the simplification assumptions we make as teachers when we first broach a complex topic and the ability of the teacher to recognize when the student is ready for something more sophisticated.
When we teach beginners math, we start easy, with (for example) addition and subtraction of whole numbers. Only when students have gotten a reasonable command of the basics, do we introduce variables and simple real-world applications. Later on down the road, we begin to talk about quadratic equations, partial derivatives, imaginary numbers, etc. and the applications for such techniques.
Anyway, you get the idea. What simplification assumptions do we make for Uechi beginners? Generally, that
- the attacker is the same size as you
- the attacker throws only one well defined, clean attack, then stops
- etc.
Moreover, we make sure that if an attack actually gets thru the beginner's defenses, that the attacker pulls the attack before the beginner gets hurt.
In a good learning environment, once the beginner has gained enough confidence to effectively deal with someone her own size who attacks repetively in a relatively simplistic fashion, we should, as teachers, begin to begin slowly add layers of sophistication and realism to the attacks and responses. What if the person uses a different attack? What if they throw two attacks? What if they are a lot bigger, quicker, stronger, nastier, uglier than you? Given these new challenges, supplied when the student is ready for the challenge, the student's response should gradually also become more and more sophisticated, effective and realistic. A good student will notice themselves that the technique taught at first is no longer adequate for a more fluid, less structured situation. In a ideal world, the student ultimately begins to think independently and creatively about about simplifying assumptions and "unrealistic" techniques, thus challenging and pushing / stimulating their teachers to consider new varibles and applications ... creating an upwards spiral of technique sophistication and understanding.
Again, I know you know all of this. My point is that we SHOULD, as teachers, begin with the simple, if "less-than-effective-in-a-real-situation" techniques. The question is are we paying enough attention to notice when the student is ready for more? Or worse: have we failed to extend our own technique and ability beyond simplistic original assumptions? As Sensei George Mattson (and others) have put it ... does the teacher have several years of experience, or one year of experience several times?
Bruce
[This message has been edited by Bruce Hirabayashi (edited December 19, 2001).]
Power on Power - for men only
The only place I see power in power "beginner" blocks is in the kumites & the bunkais. The kata do not have these blocks. the down blocks in the forms are circular and re-directing. Are they harder to do?? I don't think do -- I think it all depends on what you train.
I'm not sure we're doing the "basics" right at all after sanchin. Kyu, Dan & yakosuko kumite were built (in my understanding) to improve the ability of people to do jyu kumite for points. Kanshiwa bunkai happened for demo purposes, and Seisan bunkai was supposed to be a more dynamic exploration of what a mid-level student understood as principals of the style -- not a fixed, unchanging interpretation that was standarized.
If my assumptions are incorrect - I'd welcome clairification.
So I think the idea I'm challenging is:
what is basic? Is a linear block easier to learn first only because that is what we are used to teaching first?
Dana
I'm not sure we're doing the "basics" right at all after sanchin. Kyu, Dan & yakosuko kumite were built (in my understanding) to improve the ability of people to do jyu kumite for points. Kanshiwa bunkai happened for demo purposes, and Seisan bunkai was supposed to be a more dynamic exploration of what a mid-level student understood as principals of the style -- not a fixed, unchanging interpretation that was standarized.
If my assumptions are incorrect - I'd welcome clairification.
So I think the idea I'm challenging is:
what is basic? Is a linear block easier to learn first only because that is what we are used to teaching first?
Dana
-
Bruce Hirabayashi
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Tue May 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Frederick County, MD USA
Power on Power - for men only
Hi Dana!
Always interesting to chat with you!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmsdc:
So I think the idea I'm challenging is: what is basic? Is a linear block easier to learn first only because that is what we are used to teaching first?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
All things being equal, I would say that for a beginner unfamiliar with Karate-like movements, linear blocks ARE in fact easier. Not, mind you, better nor more effective; just easier for the beginning defender. When someone attacks you, raising one's arm in a linear fashion to defend oneself does not have to be trained … it’s ingrained from birth. To a beginner, an advanced, multi-faceted, timing-based technique like moving towards an attack then deflecting / stepping by it at the last split second appears to be a suicidal game of chicken rather than an extremely effective and effortless way of dealing with an attack.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I'm not sure we're doing the "basics" right at all after sanchin. Kyu, Dan & yakosuko kumite were built (in my understanding) to improve the ability of people to do jyu kumite for points
If my assumptions are incorrect - I'd welcome clairification.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your assumptions are not incorrect, they may simply be different from mine.
For example, I think of Kyu- and Dan Kumite as effective ways of learning how timing, distancing and movement can make or break your techniques. It also helps inspire confidence in the effectiveness of your techniques. For Jiyu Kumite, I use "slow sparring" or several Khoury-, Fagan- or Mehran Shahkar-inspired drills.
How you teach changes based on the context. My class in Atlanta for the past 5 years has been pretty small. I don’t have a formal beginners class; they’re just thrown in with the advanced folk. This means that my teaching method is fairly customized by student. I look at each student, see where they are, what they understand, and give them a technique that will work best for them for where they “are” at the moment.
Take, for example, Kyu Kumite #4 … one of my favorites. The defender catches the attacker’s right side kick with a left scooping shoken (similar to the Kon-chin motion), steps back, blocking the attacker’s left round house kick with a right raised knee / Sanchin strong arm combination, then steps back again before blocking the attacker’s overhead knife/bottle attack.
How I teach a student to deal with the overhead “bottle / knife” attack depends entirely on that student, their partner, and what they can make work.
If the student is larger, a beginner, and not overly coordinated, I will be happy if they can raise their arm (or two arms, in a X-configuration) to ward off the attack without tripping over their feet. My approach is to let them get a level of comfort with the sequence, steps, moves, distancing and body positioning before I worry too much about whether their technique actually works.
If the defender is more advanced in their understanding, smaller than the attacker, and is coordinated and moves well (perhaps a former dancer or gymnast), I will emphasize that movement, positioning and timing is far more important than what one does with one's arms. For example, I suggest to the smaller student that if they let a larger attacker’s arm start to move forward, no matter how hard they try to jam or how effectively they deflect the arm, their chance of escaping without injury is not that good. The attacker is simply too big and carries too much momentum. Instead, I might suggest that they work to find the proper moment to disrupt the timing of the attacker by moving in as the attacker’s arm is moving back, hitting the attacker’s shoulder hard with both palms BEFORE the arm starts to move forward.
If the defender is 29 years old, 6’2”, 360+ lbs, enormously strong yet moves soundlessly like a dancer, has blindingly quick reflexes, trains on a regular basis with members of the USA Olympic Judo team and happens to be a Nidan in Jujitsu, I let him do what he pleases
. If he decides to lift one arm to defend against an overhead attack, not only stopping the attack but nearly breaking the attacker’s arm in two, well, I don’t go out of my way to point out that he should not be doing power on power techniques (though I might suggest that he be easier on his fellow students).
The kind of individualized attention described above works well in a small class environment. If you are dealing with 20+ beginners as might be the case at the Washington Karate Academy, you probably need to teach in a more standardized, one-size-fits all fashion. The problem I've found teaching large classes of beginners is that I tend to keep only those students who can make the chosen standardized technique work.
So where does that leave us? Dana, your students are your guinea pigs. Try, if you like, teaching them the more advanced circular / deflecting / timing-based techniques from the get-go. My guess is that it will take them longer, on average, to figure out how to make a technique work, but once the advanced technique works, it should prove more effective for the student than the simpler linear techniques. If your students don’t lose patience, get overly frustrated, get injured, and/or leave the dojo at higher rates than before, you’ve hit on something good. If not, then you may have to adjust again. This is what makes teaching fun, and what will make you an even finer practitioner than you already are.
Bruce
[This message has been edited by Bruce Hirabayashi (edited December 20, 2001).]
Always interesting to chat with you!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmsdc:
So I think the idea I'm challenging is: what is basic? Is a linear block easier to learn first only because that is what we are used to teaching first?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
All things being equal, I would say that for a beginner unfamiliar with Karate-like movements, linear blocks ARE in fact easier. Not, mind you, better nor more effective; just easier for the beginning defender. When someone attacks you, raising one's arm in a linear fashion to defend oneself does not have to be trained … it’s ingrained from birth. To a beginner, an advanced, multi-faceted, timing-based technique like moving towards an attack then deflecting / stepping by it at the last split second appears to be a suicidal game of chicken rather than an extremely effective and effortless way of dealing with an attack.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I'm not sure we're doing the "basics" right at all after sanchin. Kyu, Dan & yakosuko kumite were built (in my understanding) to improve the ability of people to do jyu kumite for points
If my assumptions are incorrect - I'd welcome clairification.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your assumptions are not incorrect, they may simply be different from mine.
For example, I think of Kyu- and Dan Kumite as effective ways of learning how timing, distancing and movement can make or break your techniques. It also helps inspire confidence in the effectiveness of your techniques. For Jiyu Kumite, I use "slow sparring" or several Khoury-, Fagan- or Mehran Shahkar-inspired drills.
How you teach changes based on the context. My class in Atlanta for the past 5 years has been pretty small. I don’t have a formal beginners class; they’re just thrown in with the advanced folk. This means that my teaching method is fairly customized by student. I look at each student, see where they are, what they understand, and give them a technique that will work best for them for where they “are” at the moment.
Take, for example, Kyu Kumite #4 … one of my favorites. The defender catches the attacker’s right side kick with a left scooping shoken (similar to the Kon-chin motion), steps back, blocking the attacker’s left round house kick with a right raised knee / Sanchin strong arm combination, then steps back again before blocking the attacker’s overhead knife/bottle attack.
How I teach a student to deal with the overhead “bottle / knife” attack depends entirely on that student, their partner, and what they can make work.
If the student is larger, a beginner, and not overly coordinated, I will be happy if they can raise their arm (or two arms, in a X-configuration) to ward off the attack without tripping over their feet. My approach is to let them get a level of comfort with the sequence, steps, moves, distancing and body positioning before I worry too much about whether their technique actually works.
If the defender is more advanced in their understanding, smaller than the attacker, and is coordinated and moves well (perhaps a former dancer or gymnast), I will emphasize that movement, positioning and timing is far more important than what one does with one's arms. For example, I suggest to the smaller student that if they let a larger attacker’s arm start to move forward, no matter how hard they try to jam or how effectively they deflect the arm, their chance of escaping without injury is not that good. The attacker is simply too big and carries too much momentum. Instead, I might suggest that they work to find the proper moment to disrupt the timing of the attacker by moving in as the attacker’s arm is moving back, hitting the attacker’s shoulder hard with both palms BEFORE the arm starts to move forward.
If the defender is 29 years old, 6’2”, 360+ lbs, enormously strong yet moves soundlessly like a dancer, has blindingly quick reflexes, trains on a regular basis with members of the USA Olympic Judo team and happens to be a Nidan in Jujitsu, I let him do what he pleases
. If he decides to lift one arm to defend against an overhead attack, not only stopping the attack but nearly breaking the attacker’s arm in two, well, I don’t go out of my way to point out that he should not be doing power on power techniques (though I might suggest that he be easier on his fellow students).The kind of individualized attention described above works well in a small class environment. If you are dealing with 20+ beginners as might be the case at the Washington Karate Academy, you probably need to teach in a more standardized, one-size-fits all fashion. The problem I've found teaching large classes of beginners is that I tend to keep only those students who can make the chosen standardized technique work.
So where does that leave us? Dana, your students are your guinea pigs. Try, if you like, teaching them the more advanced circular / deflecting / timing-based techniques from the get-go. My guess is that it will take them longer, on average, to figure out how to make a technique work, but once the advanced technique works, it should prove more effective for the student than the simpler linear techniques. If your students don’t lose patience, get overly frustrated, get injured, and/or leave the dojo at higher rates than before, you’ve hit on something good. If not, then you may have to adjust again. This is what makes teaching fun, and what will make you an even finer practitioner than you already are.
Bruce
[This message has been edited by Bruce Hirabayashi (edited December 20, 2001).]
Power on Power - for men only
Bruce - I also enjoy our discussions and welcome differing viewpoints.
I think women will be more likely to drop out if they're learning techniques they don't have faith in and don't think will work than if they are being taught things that will take a little longer to learn but will actually work when they get them down.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If the student is larger, a beginner, and not overly coordinated, I will be happy if they can raise their arm (or two arms, in a X-configuration) to ward off the attack without tripping over their feet. My approach is to let them get a level of comfort with the sequence, steps, moves, distancing and body positioning before I worry too much about whether their technique actually works.
If the defender is more advanced in their understanding, smaller than the attacker, and is coordinated and moves well (perhaps a former dancer or gymnast), I will emphasize that movement, positioning and timing is far more important than what one does with one's arms. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In your response above you fail to address the target population of your initial question -- weaker, smaller, less coordinated individuals i.e. women who have had no previous combat or hand-to-hand or self-defense training.
Should't someone who can't use power as their main asset always be taught "that movement, positioning and timing is far more important than what one does with one's arms" as you suggest?
I also question your concept that linear is easier -- I think the circle uke/uchi technique is very close to the natural movements and startle response position for your arms - but instead of freezing up with your hands by your head our training helps us to keep the limbs moving. Children have a very very hard time first learning linear movements, but they can all wave very nicely. They wave high and they wave low.
In uechi there is 1 linear downblock in sanseiryu. I take this to mean that a linear downblock is a sohpisticated technique. But in seisan kata all of the downard blocks are circular (the movements most people call "groin strikes". Pay close attention to the hand that ends up in the back. It does not travel in a staight line backwards - rather it circles downward. As I imagine using this technique I see it as a way of helping me move forward and enter into the uke's space. They have thrown a low hand technique or a higher leg technique -- I use this backwards moving hand to stick to their attack and pull myself into them. The other arm is either throwing them off balance or whipping around to strike their neck or similar area.
But my main point is that there are few linear downward or upward deflecting/redirecting techniques. I think the style became more linear when it became "japanafied" by Master Kanei Uechi. And I feel very strongly that the most effective redirecting (aka "blocking") techniques are the ones that work for everyone, regardless of size -- and these are the circular ones.
Linear movements start and stop power - circular ones continue power and allow you to reuse it in different ways. Smaller defenders need to use the attackers energy they steal from circular redirecting techniques and simultaneously translate it into either circular or linear attacks.
Dana
pssst -- Bruce. Are you out there?
Dana
[This message has been edited by dmsdc (edited January 03, 2002).]
I think women will be more likely to drop out if they're learning techniques they don't have faith in and don't think will work than if they are being taught things that will take a little longer to learn but will actually work when they get them down.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If the student is larger, a beginner, and not overly coordinated, I will be happy if they can raise their arm (or two arms, in a X-configuration) to ward off the attack without tripping over their feet. My approach is to let them get a level of comfort with the sequence, steps, moves, distancing and body positioning before I worry too much about whether their technique actually works.
If the defender is more advanced in their understanding, smaller than the attacker, and is coordinated and moves well (perhaps a former dancer or gymnast), I will emphasize that movement, positioning and timing is far more important than what one does with one's arms. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In your response above you fail to address the target population of your initial question -- weaker, smaller, less coordinated individuals i.e. women who have had no previous combat or hand-to-hand or self-defense training.
Should't someone who can't use power as their main asset always be taught "that movement, positioning and timing is far more important than what one does with one's arms" as you suggest?
I also question your concept that linear is easier -- I think the circle uke/uchi technique is very close to the natural movements and startle response position for your arms - but instead of freezing up with your hands by your head our training helps us to keep the limbs moving. Children have a very very hard time first learning linear movements, but they can all wave very nicely. They wave high and they wave low.
In uechi there is 1 linear downblock in sanseiryu. I take this to mean that a linear downblock is a sohpisticated technique. But in seisan kata all of the downard blocks are circular (the movements most people call "groin strikes". Pay close attention to the hand that ends up in the back. It does not travel in a staight line backwards - rather it circles downward. As I imagine using this technique I see it as a way of helping me move forward and enter into the uke's space. They have thrown a low hand technique or a higher leg technique -- I use this backwards moving hand to stick to their attack and pull myself into them. The other arm is either throwing them off balance or whipping around to strike their neck or similar area.
But my main point is that there are few linear downward or upward deflecting/redirecting techniques. I think the style became more linear when it became "japanafied" by Master Kanei Uechi. And I feel very strongly that the most effective redirecting (aka "blocking") techniques are the ones that work for everyone, regardless of size -- and these are the circular ones.
Linear movements start and stop power - circular ones continue power and allow you to reuse it in different ways. Smaller defenders need to use the attackers energy they steal from circular redirecting techniques and simultaneously translate it into either circular or linear attacks.
Dana
pssst -- Bruce. Are you out there?
Dana
[This message has been edited by dmsdc (edited January 03, 2002).]
