Could This Happen?

Cecil · Post by **Cecil** » Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:53 pm

Any thoughts?
http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/comics/comic167.gif

Cecil · Post by **Cecil** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:52 pm

Do men feel less protective with regards to women who train? Do they expect her to be able to take care of herself?

LeeDarrow · Post by **LeeDarrow** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Cecil:
Do men feel less protective with regards to women who train? Do they expect her to be able to take care of herself?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was a discussion that I had had with several of my female students. Almost uniformly, they said, "if you see me getting attacked, don't wait for an invitation - wade right in!"

When you think of the situation logically, you are witnessing a person getting attacked, the urge is to help. When the person getting attacked is someone you know - that urge should be stronger.

Unless you have had this conversation and have been told -"LAY OFF - I'll handle it myself!" most people (male or female) would prefer the help.

At least IME.

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.

student · Post by **student** » Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:32 am

Of course, there's always the elfin type woman who will grin, clap her hands with glee, and shout:

"Sensei, can I have the one in the middle?"

But you wouldn't know anyhing about that, Lee, would you...?"

student

[This message has been edited by student (edited February 14, 2002).]

2Green · Post by **2Green** » Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:34 pm

The comic is a perfect illustration of the misconception that a Black Belt magically confers superhuman powers on its wearer, regardless of physical mis-match.
I think that's the point of the comic; a reminder to the less-than-humble or the less-than-realistic of what the rank truly implies and confers.
After all, isn't the man's comment the same as the general publics' perception?

[This message has been edited by 2Green (edited February 15, 2002).]

Akil Todd Harvey · Post by **Akil Todd Harvey** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:16 am

Hey everybody,

lets get ready to rant....this "comic", I think, has been with me in my subconscious since I first saw it.

I knew I did not like it, but I really had trouble putting into words what about it that made it seem so bad.

What bothers me about the cartoon is that it makes the woman out to be a victim, despite her supposed skills. On top of that, we seem to be blaming the victim for her inadequate defense skills. Finally, havent there been enough cases of women who are being accosted where no one responds to her pleas for help?

Cecil, I would expect anyone who trains to have the eventual goal and eventual ability to take care of oneself, woman or man. On the other hand, I would not leave any training partner to fend for themself in the case that they were asking for help (as is apparent)

Would that make me feel less protective with regards to women who train or of women who train that I happen to care about, perhaps romantically ( I thought this might be the implication or just the twist that I put on it)?

I am trying to separate your questions which seem reasonable and the "comic" which I suppose should be called a cartoon because to me it certainly aint funny.

What the cartoon makes me think of is.....if she trains, why is he not on the ground yet?

As Lee has already stated so well, most people would prefer to help.

I am still trying to keep separate the cartoon which I strongly dislike with the questions of Cecil's that have significant value and to which I wanted to respond, but that darned (I'll say it) mysoginist cartoon kept getting in my way.

2 green says
"The comic is a perfect illustration of the misconception that a Black Belt magically confers superhuman powers on its wearer, regardless of physical mis-match."

I used to think that being a black belt meant that I could beat everybody, but I later came to realize that what it means is that I can defend myself from everybody (not at the same time), not that I can beat everybody......

I might get hurt, even severely, but I will defend myself. and the other dude (or dudette) will get hurt too......

I have come to realize (a bit of a disapointment) that I wont ever become
the best fighter in the world, but I can hold my own (outside the ring-where there truely are "No Rules")......biting, groin shots, sand in the eyes, and every "dirty" trick I may need.....(if my life is on the line, the rules go out the window-has not happened yet)

The lack of a response to this cartoon has been very intriguing. u know folks have been holding back (which is allowed, of course) and I know that my opinion is just that. Im ichin' to hear your opinons.......

No take on the body language ( this guy has turned his back on his training partner (or his significant other)....... Why is his posture so good and hers so bad. Why did the perp grab the woman and not the man (who would presumably be the more dificult target)...... Why doesnt he just ask her if she needs help and not disparage her???? Why do I take this so seriously???? Isnt it just a cartoon ??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

Rant completed. thanks for listening....

Peace to all. God Bless

Akil Todd Harvey · Post by **Akil Todd Harvey** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:32 am

Hey everybody,

I just realized I am listed as a junior member....does this mean I have made only a few posts or that i am under 21?????

PEACE

Cecil · Post by **Cecil** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:13 pm

Nobody is responding because the topic is rather sensitive.

It still should be talked about.

I'd rather not be the one saying how insecure I think some guys may be around women who can fight, because men get more than enough flack these days. And, I'd also rather not speak for women because I am not female.

But, I will observe the discussion and people's reaction to the comic strip because that teaches me about human nature and perception.

Is the cartoon misogynistic or misandric? Or both?

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 5:04 am

If somebody grabbed me and anybody was standing nearby - whether they trained or not - I hope they come to my rescue.

Don't worry, I'll handle it is best left for the movies. That kind of attitude lets people get hurt.

It's like that question on the moral test a couple weeks back.

Is not doing something as bad as doing a bad thing to someone.

Is the guy who doesn't help as equally at fault the guy attacking the woman?

Is the woman at equal fault for not trying to defend herself???
Dana

LeeDarrow · Post by **LeeDarrow** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:30 pm

The cartoon shows something that is, frankly, deplorable.

The man is taking an "I don't care" attitude towards his spouse(?) geting attacked.

The woman is reacting like anyone would who is being attacked - she is struggling against a much bigger opponent - and not doing very well.

Blame her training? Maybe yes, maybe no.

Blame the guy (the Significant Other, not the attacker) - absolutely.

In real world terms, if she were injured or killed, there is a good liklihood that her companion could be charged with at least depraved indifference or negligence from what I understand of these laws.

To me, the bottom line of the cartoon goes to the indifference of the man to the attack on his companion.

If it weren't a cartoon, it would be actionable, IMHO.

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.

uechiwoman · Post by **uechiwoman** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 10:30 pm

I noticed that the attacker in the cartoon does not have a weapon showing. What I find interesting is that many of my friends and family assume that my black belt will protect me from bullets. I remember my mom saying that she felt safe walking anywhere with me and she had the utmost confidence that I could "take" anyone who bothered us. I asked what she thought I would do if the attacker had a gun. She said, "Aren't you trained to handle that?" I told her I would do my best to try to dissipate the situation but "taking" them in an aggressive way would not be my gameplan, especially if all that was at stake was our money.

tunetigress · Post by **tunetigress** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 10:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Akil Todd Harvey:
Hey everybody,

I just realized I am listed as a junior member....does this mean I have made only a few posts or that i am under 21?????

PEACE<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Akil Todd Harvey,
I don't think so, must be the number of posts. I'm an ole bat of 45 and I'm a 'Junior Member' LMAO! Makes me feel rather 'sprightly! LOL! _(_)_ Tune

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tunetigress · Post by **tunetigress** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 10:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Cecil:
Nobody is responding because the topic is rather sensitive.

It still should be talked about.

I'd rather not be the one saying how insecure I think some guys may be around women who can fight, because men get more than enough flack these days. And, I'd also rather not speak for women because I am not female.

But, I will observe the discussion and people's reaction to the comic strip because that teaches me about human nature and perception.

Is the cartoon misogynistic or misandric? Or both? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cecil, I didn't at first consider responding to the cartoon as it really reminded me of my hubby of 15 years! To be honest it made me cranky, cuz I thought to myself, "so typical, just like my hubby to hold it against her and rub it in her face, that he is jealous of her doing an activity without him". But then after thinking about it I was wondering if any other hubbies also resented their spouse's time put into the Martial Arts to the point that they would avoid stepping in, to subtly prove that all the time and money spent had been a waste of time all along? Mine has slowly started to come round the past couple of years, and may even (yeah, right honey) enroll with our youngest son when he is old enough. I can tell ya it's a heck of a battle with guilt with many of my women friends too, to have the strength to spend a little time on ourselves, and not give 100% away. Respectfully, _(_)_ Tunetigress

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[This message has been edited by tunetigress (edited February 28, 2002).]

Cecil · Post by **Cecil** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:25 pm

Okay, now hold on,

My wife is just as adamant about my training. She is giving me grief about traning time as I approach 1st Dan. So don't go jumping all on husbands.

Spouses can be resentful if you don't devote 100% of your free time to them. Male OR Female.

I figure if I can let her take 4 hours on a Saturday to get her hair done, why can't I get a few hours during the week to learn how to protect her and the kids. Especially when I help teach one of the classes my son is in.

Calming down now.....