Blocking kicks with your arms

[gmattson]

Agreed to the low kick Al. I should have said kicks in the middle range, in which that Seisan block can be used.

[LeeDarrow]

Dana-Sensei,

I recall, with no little wincing on my part, a "block" to a roundhouse kick that bloody well almost ended my afternoon.

I threw the kick and the hamster I was fighting stepped in and nailed me with an elbow strike to the thigh. Along the nerve. HARD.

REAL HARD.

Needless to say, that stopped things, right there.

One of my own favorites, back when I was sparring in the Jurassic Period, was to find some nice kicking oriented person and entice them into a spinning reverse wheel kick.

It's amazing the amount of pain that's generated by an elbow or extended knuckle punch into the middle of the calf of the kicking leg.

The result of that one almost forces the kicker to continue the fight from a Crane Stance - without benefit of Pat Morita's Mr. Miyagi!

With a wicked grin and an epathic wince,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Sandan (ret)

[candan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I threw the kick and the hamster I was fighting stepped in and nailed me with an elbow strike
to the thigh. Along the nerve. HARD.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> It's amazing the amount of pain that's generated by an elbow or extended knuckle punch into
the middle of the calf of the kicking leg.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Conditioning these areas doen`t seem to be effective does it . Leg conditioning has its limits..soft tissue is just that..soft!

[Dana Sheets]

FMA footwork sounds great. If the feet don't move well, it gets pretty ugly pretty quickly.

Thanks Raffi - I think different kinds of footwork in general are great to learn - it helps to understand better why the Uechi stances transition the way they do vs. the transition in other arts.

[sunsu8]

Just curious here, but in Uechi-ryu do you tend to kick higher or lower. I study Isshinryu and we are taught to kick more low and natural for the VERY reason that it is hard to block and in certain areas (inside knee, meridian on upper thigh, back of the knee, etc) are very effective. The few blocks we use for kicks (in the middle torso range) is to chaeck the leg and couter it (as mentioned by somone above) to crowd them and sweep there support leg and follow-through with a choke, arm bar, what have you, and meet there forse with an opposite force at the proper moment. The last one for me is really hard to do mostly because i am not a strong fighter, but when done on me i lose practically all my balance and am extremely vulnerable!

I would like to learn more about Uechi-Ryu if someone doesn't mind. I am always interested in finding more information and i have found a lot on this forum. THANKS to you all! SJR

[Dana Sheets]

SJR,
Besides viewing some of the video clips on this site to see the style I'd suggest trying to visit a school. Where are you? You never know - there may be a Uechi dojo just down the street.

The other option is to go to the store on this site and buy one of the books on Uechi. George Mattson's books and Allen Multons, and Allen Dollar's books seem to be at the top of most people's lists.

The style resembles many in the hakka family of souther chinese styles. (Fukien White crane, five ancestor fist, souther praying mantis.) Besides tha hakka family styles, Uechi shares many principles that are found is the more widely practiced style of Wing Chung.

good luck in your search.
Dana

[Allen M.]

Who's Allen Multon?

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

[sunsu8]

Thank you Dana,Sensei! I will look into those more and check ot the clips. Your style sounds neat though. SJR

[Uechij]

Here's my approach if not using my legs to block,

Catch the kick at the very end of its execution, when it's in that transition stage between full extension and retraction (this will require proper distancing). Use a downward hooking block catching the leg under the Achilles tendon with your hand (be sure to lead with the palm, letting the fingers follow). Don't worry about actually grabbing the leg, just get your hand around the back of the ankle and pull softly (even if your hand slides off, it will still work to some extent) while pushing the leg away from you (just enough to clear the leg), pulling them off balance. This is not easy to do and may require a combination of footwork to achieve. I have found this to be very effective against the big opponent who suddenly finds their selves have spun around exposing their kidneys for a shot. When done properly, the nice thing about this technique is that the harder they kick, the easier it is to pull them off balance. I only use one arm to block while the other strikes. If you find this too difficult to do then try a modified version of the double handed scoop and sweep cat stance block out of Seichin. I use the scooping as a slap or check (kinda like the check for the circle, no grabbing though) and the sweeping portion as a downward push\palm heel\strike in a one two fashion, so one hand always remains free to block or strike.


"Who's Allen Multon?"

Hmmmmm...that name sounds familiar.



[This message has been edited by Uechij (edited April 03, 2002).]

[Dana Sheets]

OK, Ok, OKAY!!!! One little typo...sheesh!

Moulton -- I got it. Actually I still need to order your book. -- If I go to the FAST defense thing in June then it'll have to wait until July. Can I put a copy on layaway Allen?

UechiJ - does your block work on somebody who is very quick with their retraction? The thing about arm/leg timing is that if you're really kicking to hit and get out - it is very different than kicking to shove. I find that on mediocre kickers it's fairly easy to put a hand on their leg to redirect - but with good kickers, the hand is almost always late. That's why I like raising the knee more against fast legs.

Obviously the exception is the low scissors strike, low down block, scoop combo in sanseiryu kata. That move is definitely has at least one interpretation that includes using the arms on the legs - but not so much against legs that are kicking. It's much more of a grappling and takedown sequence than "blocking".

just a ramble I guess, gotta run.
dana

[Allen M.]

Me? I thought that name looked a little familiar too, but couldn't figure out where I read it last.

I'm glad you asked me to put one away for you because I'm going to be out of them by summer. I'll be more than happy to Dana. And, thank you.

The best defense against big, hard, fast kickers is to get out of the way. I know a few people that when they kick, their foot stays right where they intended it to be and it takes two people to sweep it away.

Fingers jam more easily against a fast hard front kick. I lost the index finger on my left hand -- it popped right off at the knuckle -- to an overzealous hyped-up kicker.

Normally I like to block low incomings with my legs and higher ones with my arms.

What I call "My Serendipity Block" is also favorite with me. I was teaching Uechi in my dojo in Tennessee and also practiced Tang Soo Do at the local dojang. I came here to New England for my second dan test, and right after the test I was taught Konchin. I practiced it the next morning, all morning, just shy of 100 times, one right after the other and paced it out near the end.

I attended the Tang Soo Do class that Monday or Tuesday, and during sparring, the new double-shoken block, instantaneously, without my even thinking about it, caught my opponent's foot, and as I continued the block I could feel the point where his supporting foot was about to break traction. I was able to stop myself from continuing the block, but if not, I think I would have flipped him on his head.

The same thing happened several more times in the following weeks, and I safely terminated the block before I dumped my sparring partner. I gave up Tang Soo Do and sparring for awhile because I had no control on my block; it was just there.

Years before, when I was a young brown belt and did numerous sets of kata every day, Uechi kata would come out, and twice the automatic reflex of a pivot circle block, chamber, and settling down into a good fighting position stopped an attack on my person as it was about to start.

Experiences like that, and there are others like that, tell me that Uechi-ryu kata is meant for fighting, but you have to do it a lot and hard for it to work. In other words, dedicate yourself to what you believe in and it will automatically be there for you when needed.

So now I'm rambling, Dana.


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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

[Uechij]

Dana,

"UechiJ - does your block work on somebody who is very quick with their retraction?"

Yes, it's been pretty successful. Let me say though that it's not full proof as I have been kicked before. I place a heavy emphasis on body conditionong in my dojo for this very reason. Even when it doesn't completly block the kick it will usually take enough of the sting out of it so I don't get hurt. One thing that I forgot to mention is that your blocks may be more than adequete, it may be more an issue of timing. I look for ques to tip me off as to when an attack is coming. I know this sounds elementary but it is a skill that is often not developed to its fullest potential. When I do take one, I often find that I made the mistake of being in the "delivery zone." As stated before on this post, I will use legs for lower kicks, or just not be there period.

[Allen M.]

I suspect it works for you, Uechij, because your early-detection mechanism works well. Fast retraccting blocks are harder to catch, but looks like you've developed a knack for it.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

[Robb in Sacramento]

Dana:

Great topic. Two observations.

I am told that "down block" is not the right translation for the movement if one is referring to a gedan barai. I am told barai means to sweep. In most Okinawan and Japanese systems, the upper block is called jodan uke, and the middle block chudan uke. But this lower area movement is not called uke.

Second, in almost every classic kata a gedan barai is never performed outside a low or crouching stance. I have never seen a classic kata with a gedan barai performed in a stance as upright as sanchin. Indeed, in Uechi kata the gedan barai is performed in a low stance. If kata is the blue print for application, why do we insist on doing a gedan barai from a high stance?

OK, I said of a couple of observations, but one more. I am very fortunate to have access to many skilled martial artists in the Sacramento area. Arnie Inouye, a long time senior of Ed Parker, suggested to me that the arm that most people view as doing the blocking in a gedan barai is merely cleaning up the work done by the other arm. He noted that in most classic kata, there is always a reaching or extension of the opposite arm before the "blocking" arm moves. He would simply ask, which arm makes contact first.

Peace
Robb in Sacramento