I'm discovering that there seems to be a million ways to do this punch.
I like to throw it right from my guard position with no retraction. Basically my elbow rotates away from my center while my arm is still bent in sanchin.
However - others in my school like to make the technique larger my starting the circle from their hip - make more of what you think of as a classic "haymaker".
And then when I saw Raffi throw one at the seminar in Richmond - it seemed like he basically lifted his elbow until it was even with his shoulder and whipped his fist horizontally through the head of the defender (his quick-ducking wife!!).
How do you throw your round house punch? It is your jab - or it is more of your power technique? It is the techniqe you use to enter? Or is it the last one you throw on the way out of a sparring exchange?
I use it more as a jab - to stun the person, raise their guard and set them up for a centerline attack.
Round House Punch
Moderator: Available
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Tony-San
Round House Punch
I like it more as a hair pulling technique. Reach out quickly and twist your hip strongly and you rip it back into sanchin.
Works well for pinning someone against a wall by their throat too.
Works well for pinning someone against a wall by their throat too.
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Guest
Round House Punch
Interesting to do these movements with a knife in hand. The round house becomes a knife slash across the face/eyes. (Reverse grip)
A knife in hand adds new meaning to the upward elbow strike followed by the cranes beak strike as well.
Many of our kata movements blend well with the blade, the pocket stick, and the ballpoint.
Laird
A knife in hand adds new meaning to the upward elbow strike followed by the cranes beak strike as well.
Many of our kata movements blend well with the blade, the pocket stick, and the ballpoint.
Laird
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Guest
Round House Punch
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dana Sheets:
I'm discovering that there seems to be a million ways to do this punch.
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Glad you posted on this I've always had many questions.
I like to throw it right from my guard position with no retraction. Basically my elbow rotates away from my center while my arm is still bent in sanchin.
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I some times use it like this as well. An effective quick pop to set up another technique when thrown from the front foot. I do find it stronger off of the rear foot but rarely have had a chance to throw it off the rear foot except as a last ditch shot on a tackling rush. Some times it lands some times it doesn't but you end up on your back most times.
However - others in my school like to make the technique larger my starting the circle from their hip - make more of what you think of as a classic "haymaker".
---------------------------------------------
When I first studied Uechi kata the strike was taught this way. The explanation was a downward push or block too deflect the attacking push or grab. In this application, the strike delivered from the hips,springing off the coiled rear leg, with both round house strikes landing as the front foot lands, was definetly not a jab
.
I have use this interpretation in sparring, striking both temple areas with padded hands. It is effective. Could be why my sparring partners keep wanting to explore kata instead.
And then when I saw Raffi throw one at the seminar in Richmond - it seemed like he basically lifted his elbow until it was even with his shoulder and whipped his fist horizontally through the head of the defender (his quick-ducking wife!!).
---------------------------------------
Interesting is this off the front foot? Off the front foot the round house punch is very similar to the shot thrown in boxing when boxer doubles up on the jab. Very effective new angle to set up the power stroke.(pop the head up and shear it off)
How do you throw your round house punch? It is your jab - or it is more of your power technique? It is the techniqe you use to enter? Or is it the last one you throw
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D all of the above. I use this most when I'm stepping in off center with the lead hand. It can be used off the front foot in this fashion to intiate an attack or meet an attack.
Off the back foot I see the strike as a powershot that meets your opponents movement. I don't see this as a method to close distance.If someone wants to run in to it it may be the last one I throw
. I try to use the lead hand to convice the opponent that they want to move into my rear hand.
Hope this makes sense
Laird
I'm discovering that there seems to be a million ways to do this punch.
---------------------------------------------
Glad you posted on this I've always had many questions.
I like to throw it right from my guard position with no retraction. Basically my elbow rotates away from my center while my arm is still bent in sanchin.
---------------------------------------------
I some times use it like this as well. An effective quick pop to set up another technique when thrown from the front foot. I do find it stronger off of the rear foot but rarely have had a chance to throw it off the rear foot except as a last ditch shot on a tackling rush. Some times it lands some times it doesn't but you end up on your back most times.
However - others in my school like to make the technique larger my starting the circle from their hip - make more of what you think of as a classic "haymaker".
---------------------------------------------
When I first studied Uechi kata the strike was taught this way. The explanation was a downward push or block too deflect the attacking push or grab. In this application, the strike delivered from the hips,springing off the coiled rear leg, with both round house strikes landing as the front foot lands, was definetly not a jab
. I have use this interpretation in sparring, striking both temple areas with padded hands. It is effective. Could be why my sparring partners keep wanting to explore kata instead.
And then when I saw Raffi throw one at the seminar in Richmond - it seemed like he basically lifted his elbow until it was even with his shoulder and whipped his fist horizontally through the head of the defender (his quick-ducking wife!!).
---------------------------------------
Interesting is this off the front foot? Off the front foot the round house punch is very similar to the shot thrown in boxing when boxer doubles up on the jab. Very effective new angle to set up the power stroke.(pop the head up and shear it off)
How do you throw your round house punch? It is your jab - or it is more of your power technique? It is the techniqe you use to enter? Or is it the last one you throw
--------------------------------------------
D all of the above. I use this most when I'm stepping in off center with the lead hand. It can be used off the front foot in this fashion to intiate an attack or meet an attack.
Off the back foot I see the strike as a powershot that meets your opponents movement. I don't see this as a method to close distance.If someone wants to run in to it it may be the last one I throw
. I try to use the lead hand to convice the opponent that they want to move into my rear hand.Hope this makes sense
Laird
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Round House Punch
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Tonysan - very nice. I feel I sometimes undertrain the grabbing and pulling into center parts of uechi. Is so schweeet to be able to yank people off their center and be able to hit them while they're falling.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Why condition the fingers when a blade was built to do the work? You guys - you keep up with the knife stuff and I may even end up getting one. There's a wonderful article on how weapons are the great equalizer between genders - problem is getting most women to train the weapon well enough to make it effective.
This is also true, somewhat, of the round house punch. Since men come with bigger, heavier arms - most guys can make this a pretty effective technique pretty quickly.
I think women need to be trained carefully to keep their shoulder down and connected to the body - so when they throw the round punch they throw their body and not just their arm.
Dana
If memory serves, yes - it was off his lead foot. Later he showed the same move off of a lead hand grab of uke's roundhouse punch.Interesting is this off the front foot?
Tonysan - very nice. I feel I sometimes undertrain the grabbing and pulling into center parts of uechi. Is so schweeet to be able to yank people off their center and be able to hit them while they're falling.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
A knife in hand adds new meaning to the upward elbow strike followed by the cranes beak strike as well.
Why condition the fingers when a blade was built to do the work?
You guys - you keep up with the knife stuff and I may even end up getting one. There's a wonderful article on how weapons are the great equalizer between genders - problem is getting most women to train the weapon well enough to make it effective. This is also true, somewhat, of the round house punch. Since men come with bigger, heavier arms - most guys can make this a pretty effective technique pretty quickly.
I think women need to be trained carefully to keep their shoulder down and connected to the body - so when they throw the round punch they throw their body and not just their arm.
Dana
Round House Punch
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
A blade and the implications are hard for most folks to deal with, both male and female. It may be an obstacle that leads to deciding against an "equalizer." This is too bad because it weakens our position -- those of us who are small -- when we may be called upon to defend ourselves against BG's of much bigger sizes.
Since 9/11 and post implementation of more restrictive ordinance on blade length in Boston, I find myself carrying less and less because I often have to go to governmental buildings and pass through metal detection. The only constant I have with me these days is the Streamlight batonlight (small flashlight). It's obviously not as deadly as a blade but still packs some damaging potential as an impact weapon. It's also just plain useful at night as a flashlight. I think this is the way to go to introduce folks to having an equalizer. The way to use easily transfers from empty hand techniques. The more effective is to use it in combination with knifepoint techniques. If you're interested, send me your address -- dysmoy@aol.com -- and I'll send loan you my "Pocketstick" video by the late Guro Ted LucayLucay. It's a good intro.
Regarding Raffi's hook, that's pretty much the standard way it's done in boxing. Laird's comments are right on. Hook is an right inside type of technique. How you get there depends on who and how the gap closes. Generally, as already pointed out, you can lead with the lead jab and immediately convert to a lead hook. Yes. Hip torque/shift gives it the power. The hook is a often a finishing, knockdown/knockout technique. You'll be surprised at how often this one catches many MA folks. Another way is to step back/side of an opponent's attack, guard with the rear hand, and hook with the lead. This too catches may straight on attacks. Play around with variations and approaches.
david
An "equalizer" can make a difference in addressing disparity in size and power. I learned this long time ago as an usher in a movie house. No long story but I got into something with a guy well over six feet and much heavier than me. I had a small plastic flashlight in my right hand (standard equipment). I naturally hit him in the groin, doubling him over, and then hit him with an upper cut with the same hand. He went up and then down for the count. He was sporting a split that ran from his eyebrow to his ckeekbone. My hand didn't feel a thing.Why condition the fingers when a blade was built to do the work? You guys - you keep up with the knife stuff and I may even end up getting one. There's a wonderful article on how weapons are the great equalizer between genders - problem is getting most women to train the weapon well enough to make it effective.
A blade and the implications are hard for most folks to deal with, both male and female. It may be an obstacle that leads to deciding against an "equalizer." This is too bad because it weakens our position -- those of us who are small -- when we may be called upon to defend ourselves against BG's of much bigger sizes.
Since 9/11 and post implementation of more restrictive ordinance on blade length in Boston, I find myself carrying less and less because I often have to go to governmental buildings and pass through metal detection. The only constant I have with me these days is the Streamlight batonlight (small flashlight). It's obviously not as deadly as a blade but still packs some damaging potential as an impact weapon. It's also just plain useful at night as a flashlight.
I think this is the way to go to introduce folks to having an equalizer. The way to use easily transfers from empty hand techniques. The more effective is to use it in combination with knifepoint techniques. If you're interested, send me your address -- dysmoy@aol.com -- and I'll send loan you my "Pocketstick" video by the late Guro Ted LucayLucay. It's a good intro.Regarding Raffi's hook, that's pretty much the standard way it's done in boxing. Laird's comments are right on. Hook is an right inside type of technique. How you get there depends on who and how the gap closes. Generally, as already pointed out, you can lead with the lead jab and immediately convert to a lead hook. Yes. Hip torque/shift gives it the power. The hook is a often a finishing, knockdown/knockout technique. You'll be surprised at how often this one catches many MA folks. Another way is to step back/side of an opponent's attack, guard with the rear hand, and hook with the lead. This too catches may straight on attacks. Play around with variations and approaches.
david
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Guest
Round House Punch
An excellent tape and a most generous offer. The folder does not have to be open to be effective. Weather your considering carrying an equalizer or not, there are many good things in Guro Lucaylucay's pocket stick tape.
Laird
Laird
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Raffi Derderian
- Posts: 635
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Johnston, RI
- Contact:
Round House Punch
Dana,
I am sorry I opened up such a kettle of worms with that punch. I wish I could remember throwing it! But I am glad Susan ducked (she is usually hard to hit)
I am 99% certain it had to come off of my front foot. As David said, it is a standard boxers punch. JKD punches are boxing style punches.
I too have the Lucaylucay tape. It is excellent! I was lucky enough also to train with Tak Kabuta (the guy who developed the Kubaton) and it was a great class. He really has a great system for using the weapon. He might also have a tape as well.
Dana, are you and anyone from your school coming to camp?
Raf
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www.derderian-academy.com
I am sorry I opened up such a kettle of worms with that punch. I wish I could remember throwing it! But I am glad Susan ducked (she is usually hard to hit)
I am 99% certain it had to come off of my front foot. As David said, it is a standard boxers punch. JKD punches are boxing style punches.
I too have the Lucaylucay tape. It is excellent! I was lucky enough also to train with Tak Kabuta (the guy who developed the Kubaton) and it was a great class. He really has a great system for using the weapon. He might also have a tape as well.
Dana, are you and anyone from your school coming to camp?
Raf
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www.derderian-academy.com
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Tony-San
Round House Punch
Dana,
Try to interpret the washuke as an assist to the pulling technique. In other words, palm blast their jaw in the opposite direction as you yank your handfull of hair into Sanchin. Great way to get control of their head. You can really mess someone up with that.
Tony
p.s. David, You're hook rules bro!
Try to interpret the washuke as an assist to the pulling technique. In other words, palm blast their jaw in the opposite direction as you yank your handfull of hair into Sanchin. Great way to get control of their head. You can really mess someone up with that.
Tony
p.s. David, You're hook rules bro!
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Round House Punch
David, thank you for your offer. And please look for my email in your in box. I am definitely becoming a convert to the idea that empty handed training doesn't mean your hands have to be empty all the time.
Raffi - it's no can of worms. I thought it to be an excellent, quick and natural technique - actually, once the elbow is up even with the shoulder like that, the horizontal cross is the easiest way to rotate the shoulder. No antagonistic muscles = very fast technique. Oh, there's 3 of us right now planning to come to camp - I hope to convince more before long.
Tony - I think your comments are worthy of a full thread on hair grabbing - most women have lots of hair to grab so this makes hair very worrisome in self-defense. It also seems to be something you've put some good thought into as well.
Not to stand on details - but the round punch isn't in any of the kata - but it is in hojoundo. Same for the side & back elbow strike. I wonder how that came to be? And I wonder about other "uechi" techniques that were never meant to be lost.
Now - what's the follow up if your round house wiffs? Come back with the elbow?
Dana
Raffi - it's no can of worms. I thought it to be an excellent, quick and natural technique - actually, once the elbow is up even with the shoulder like that, the horizontal cross is the easiest way to rotate the shoulder. No antagonistic muscles = very fast technique. Oh, there's 3 of us right now planning to come to camp - I hope to convince more before long.
Tony - I think your comments are worthy of a full thread on hair grabbing - most women have lots of hair to grab so this makes hair very worrisome in self-defense. It also seems to be something you've put some good thought into as well.
Not to stand on details - but the round punch isn't in any of the kata - but it is in hojoundo. Same for the side & back elbow strike. I wonder how that came to be? And I wonder about other "uechi" techniques that were never meant to be lost.
Now - what's the follow up if your round house wiffs? Come back with the elbow?
Dana
Round House Punch
Dana,
I 'll get the tape out this week-end.
Raffi,
You're lucky you didn't connect on Susan... She would KILLLLLLL you for it.
Tony's hook ain't bad either. He's clearly been working on it a bit in the last year.
david
I 'll get the tape out this week-end.
Raffi,
You're lucky you didn't connect on Susan... She would KILLLLLLL you for it.
Tony's hook ain't bad either. He's clearly been working on it a bit in the last year.
david
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Tony-San
Round House Punch
hee hee! thanks David! it's coming along thanks to you... don't know if has KO potential yet but it's getting there...
I got a new pair of Focus mitts for Memorial Day weekend! Can't wait man!!!
I got a new pair of Focus mitts for Memorial Day weekend! Can't wait man!!!
Round House Punch
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Now - what's the follow up if your round house wiffs? Come back with the elbow?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you're powering the hook with the hips then the punch is very short -- 6"-12" -- rather than the long arc of arm driven "haymaker." A missed haymaker will result in the loss of balance or, at minimum, a severely out of position place that retards a follow-up. If you miss with hip driven hook, you can come back with the rear hand attack. It's a natural return of the hip. Highly unlikely you can come back with the elbow of the hooking hand -- unless you throwing a haymaker. A good hook driven by hip motion, with the elbow brought up to shoulder level, will mean the elbow never passes the centerline of your opponent. Thus impossible to whip back around. One possibility is just to keep that hooking elbow up and when you return with the hip motion, you drive straight in with that elbow. But this requires at least a stutter step into the opponent.
Tony, I'll not embarass you. So, I'll leave the French Riveria swim wear at home.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited April 19, 2002).]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you're powering the hook with the hips then the punch is very short -- 6"-12" -- rather than the long arc of arm driven "haymaker." A missed haymaker will result in the loss of balance or, at minimum, a severely out of position place that retards a follow-up. If you miss with hip driven hook, you can come back with the rear hand attack. It's a natural return of the hip. Highly unlikely you can come back with the elbow of the hooking hand -- unless you throwing a haymaker. A good hook driven by hip motion, with the elbow brought up to shoulder level, will mean the elbow never passes the centerline of your opponent. Thus impossible to whip back around. One possibility is just to keep that hooking elbow up and when you return with the hip motion, you drive straight in with that elbow. But this requires at least a stutter step into the opponent.
Tony, I'll not embarass you. So, I'll leave the French Riveria swim wear at home.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited April 19, 2002).]
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Raffi Derderian
- Posts: 635
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Johnston, RI
- Contact:
Round House Punch
David,
You are correct. If I had hit Susan, there would have been a nasty price.
Dana,
The elbow is certainly an acceptable follow up after a lead hook punch. A better one would be a rear cross.
One of the things we train in every single class in our school is punches/kicks on the focus mitts and thai pads. Standard JKD glove drills. Nothing I invented for sure. Just stuff I have learned from my teacher and his teacher Dan Inosanto. Guro Dan has some of the best focus mitt drills I have ever incountered. This is usually the first 30 minutes of class. That portion of the class is extremely intense. If you are game to start playing with these punches, here are a few simple combinations.
Try hook-cross-hook; cross-hook-cross, jab-cross-hook; hook-cross-elbow.
Have fun,
Raf
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www.derderian-academy.com
You are correct. If I had hit Susan, there would have been a nasty price.
Dana,
The elbow is certainly an acceptable follow up after a lead hook punch. A better one would be a rear cross.
One of the things we train in every single class in our school is punches/kicks on the focus mitts and thai pads. Standard JKD glove drills. Nothing I invented for sure. Just stuff I have learned from my teacher and his teacher Dan Inosanto. Guro Dan has some of the best focus mitt drills I have ever incountered. This is usually the first 30 minutes of class. That portion of the class is extremely intense. If you are game to start playing with these punches, here are a few simple combinations.
Try hook-cross-hook; cross-hook-cross, jab-cross-hook; hook-cross-elbow.
Have fun,
Raf
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www.derderian-academy.com
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Guest
Round House Punch
When we miss we miss for a reason. Most times because our target has moved. Rude of them why can't they just stand there like in class.
It's common to move under circular attacks.If your target has choosen to go down and away from your strike then the suggested followups work well.
If your target goes down and into your attack, it is a mute point as they probably dropped their own punch or knee in on their way to the outside. So you are now playing catchup.
When I miss with the lead hook,I like the backfist , doubling up on the hook,or the straight right hand.
When I miss with the hook off the rear foot I try to circle down and come up on the inside with the uppercut. Keep the top hand on the temple and the elbow in because you can run into knees if your opponent sees it comming. If not you have a power shot to drop in from the groin to the chin(nice to get a choice)
Laird
It's common to move under circular attacks.If your target has choosen to go down and away from your strike then the suggested followups work well.
If your target goes down and into your attack, it is a mute point as they probably dropped their own punch or knee in on their way to the outside. So you are now playing catchup.
When I miss with the lead hook,I like the backfist , doubling up on the hook,or the straight right hand.
When I miss with the hook off the rear foot I try to circle down and come up on the inside with the uppercut. Keep the top hand on the temple and the elbow in because you can run into knees if your opponent sees it comming. If not you have a power shot to drop in from the groin to the chin(nice to get a choice
)Laird
