At all the seminars, shiais, tournaments, etc there are always many blackbelts of various ranks.
Let's say there are 32 black belts at a seminar and 14 have red/white or red belts. Who do you rei to? The red belts? All of the black belts? Wait until the general bow in and acknowledge them then?
WHEN DO YOU REI? Even though I am a brown belt, I have been asked this question by others and wondered about some of it myself. Do you rei to a black belt when they walk in the door? When they dress out? When they enter onto the dojo floor? When they address you? When you and they talk? Everytime you see them? When they walk by?
Anytime I see someone of high rank, I put the respect they deserve in the highest regards especially when I have just met them. As far as I know, when you bow you show respect, but you obviously don't bow every second! So when is it appropriate?
For those of you who are black belts, what do you expect from the lower ranks? A casual bow? Them walking up, introducing themselves and bowing? A respectful bow to the black belts as a whole? Does you look forward to people bowing to you? Can you tell if they mean it?
This has to seem dumb to many of you, but I am sure a few have an answer or wonder to some extent yourselves. Please give me some guidence on this~ sjr
group etiquette
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group etiquette
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Went so far as to "not notice" a black belt because of my uncertainty.
So, maybe try this...
some dojo's rei every time a BB enters the floor, some don't. It is called by the highest ranking student on the floor at the time, or by the person who sees him first. In this case you just follow the rules.
In mixed groups outside the dojo, few BB will demand the dojo rules to be followed but the head of the Style or the most senior BB attending the seminar should be bowed in, following the same protocol as the dojo. If you don't know who that is, you may ignore the entrance of "just another BB."
Anytime you are addressed by a BB or called by one, you should rei and if given instructions, when you agree and leave you should rei. After the first bow, you don't have to bow again every time you pass them on the floor or they pass a remark with you. Of course, if you approacha d introduce yourself to a BB it shuld start with a bow.
How's that for starters?
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The Fighting Old Man
Bin there, fussed that!This has to seem dumb to many of you, but I am sure a few have an answer or wonder to some extent yourselves. Please give me some guidence on this~ sjr
Went so far as to "not notice" a black belt because of my uncertainty.
So, maybe try this...
some dojo's rei every time a BB enters the floor, some don't. It is called by the highest ranking student on the floor at the time, or by the person who sees him first. In this case you just follow the rules.
In mixed groups outside the dojo, few BB will demand the dojo rules to be followed but the head of the Style or the most senior BB attending the seminar should be bowed in, following the same protocol as the dojo. If you don't know who that is, you may ignore the entrance of "just another BB."
Anytime you are addressed by a BB or called by one, you should rei and if given instructions, when you agree and leave you should rei. After the first bow, you don't have to bow again every time you pass them on the floor or they pass a remark with you. Of course, if you approacha d introduce yourself to a BB it shuld start with a bow.
How's that for starters?
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The Fighting Old Man
group etiquette
So much made of a symbolic gesture, especially in an milieu (here) that is different from where the tradition came.
Sure, bow if the "sensei" is from there as it is acknowledging his/her culture and making him/her comfortable.
Here, I say the right attitude and the right speech are far more important (to me) than a borrowed gesture.
david
Sure, bow if the "sensei" is from there as it is acknowledging his/her culture and making him/her comfortable.
Here, I say the right attitude and the right speech are far more important (to me) than a borrowed gesture.
david
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gmattson
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group etiquette
When in Japan, bow to everyone you meet. (Be sure to learn the correct way to bow) When the Japanese greet an American, they bow first, then often shake hands with us.
In America, most dojo continue to bow as a preface to performing a kata or kumite. I don't believe it appropriate for students to be bowing to one another outside of the dojo, regardless of rank. I make it a policy to bow with the student, prior to their performing kata or other demonstration of their karate.
Be wary of anyone requiring that you bow to them, regardless of rank.
Last year, while attending the Atlanta seminars and tournament, many traditional dojo were present, along with many very senior Okinawans. I didn't see any bowing outside of the tournament rings, during competition or at seminars, prior to performing kata or other drills. I believe most of the seniors feel as I do about this subject.
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GEM
In America, most dojo continue to bow as a preface to performing a kata or kumite. I don't believe it appropriate for students to be bowing to one another outside of the dojo, regardless of rank. I make it a policy to bow with the student, prior to their performing kata or other demonstration of their karate.
Be wary of anyone requiring that you bow to them, regardless of rank.
Last year, while attending the Atlanta seminars and tournament, many traditional dojo were present, along with many very senior Okinawans. I didn't see any bowing outside of the tournament rings, during competition or at seminars, prior to performing kata or other drills. I believe most of the seniors feel as I do about this subject.
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GEM
group etiquette
Thanks to all of you for your replies... Now I have a question, what do you PERSONALLY do? ~sjr
group etiquette
Sunsu:
I train in a very small class; maybe 8 maximum, and we are all on a first-name basis...however:
We always address our teacher as "Sensei" while in class.He has taken 2 hours of his valuable time to pass on his knowledge,and this is our ACknowlegement of this.
I refer to him in conversation with others as MISTER...(last name).
This is a TaeKwondo custom, but I feel a very useful and respectful one. It acknowledges my respect for him as my senior in my training, whether or not in years.
He is my senior (slightly) in years.
Outside of class or on the phone, we are strictly first-name basis.
The interesting thing is that the switch from one mode to the other is what signifies the transition from friend to teacher, as recognized and acknowledged on my part.
In the mall, he's (first name).
To my friends, he's MISTER (last name.)
In class, he's Sensei.
He himself has NEVER insisted on any one or the other; I and classmates have kind of fallen into this respectful habit on our own.
It suits me just fine!
We always bow in and out of Kata, we bow in and out of Kumite and drills. I find it now to be a very natural and easy manner to adopt, and were I ever at a camp situation, a quick bow to any one of any rank would seem appropriate, whether "higher" or "lower", and a deeper bow to anyone I recognized or wore a darker belt!
I think it's a VERY useful custom, and couldn't we use more respect overall in our day-to-day affairs, even if "the bow" is completely internal? NM
I train in a very small class; maybe 8 maximum, and we are all on a first-name basis...however:
We always address our teacher as "Sensei" while in class.He has taken 2 hours of his valuable time to pass on his knowledge,and this is our ACknowlegement of this.
I refer to him in conversation with others as MISTER...(last name).
This is a TaeKwondo custom, but I feel a very useful and respectful one. It acknowledges my respect for him as my senior in my training, whether or not in years.
He is my senior (slightly) in years.
Outside of class or on the phone, we are strictly first-name basis.
The interesting thing is that the switch from one mode to the other is what signifies the transition from friend to teacher, as recognized and acknowledged on my part.
In the mall, he's (first name).
To my friends, he's MISTER (last name.)
In class, he's Sensei.
He himself has NEVER insisted on any one or the other; I and classmates have kind of fallen into this respectful habit on our own.
It suits me just fine!
We always bow in and out of Kata, we bow in and out of Kumite and drills. I find it now to be a very natural and easy manner to adopt, and were I ever at a camp situation, a quick bow to any one of any rank would seem appropriate, whether "higher" or "lower", and a deeper bow to anyone I recognized or wore a darker belt!
I think it's a VERY useful custom, and couldn't we use more respect overall in our day-to-day affairs, even if "the bow" is completely internal? NM
group etiquette
Sorry...just a quick addendum...
It is when we are in Gi that defines us as Karate-ka or specifically Uechi-ka, so it is in this mode that we act according to our traditions, since we wear the "badge" (Gi) of such traditions. NM
It is when we are in Gi that defines us as Karate-ka or specifically Uechi-ka, so it is in this mode that we act according to our traditions, since we wear the "badge" (Gi) of such traditions. NM
group etiquette
well put 2green! I liked what you wrote and I think that is probably what I will do (other than first name since i am a kid and he an adult) It seems to be a good median between bowing out of tradition and showing adaquate respect. Thanks again! I like the addendum too! ~sjr
P.S. Do any of you ever get caught bowing to people you meet in public? I was at the awards ceremony and everytime I went on stage to receive an award, I bowed! LOL I felt kind of dumb but didn't realize it til after I had done it!
P.S. Do any of you ever get caught bowing to people you meet in public? I was at the awards ceremony and everytime I went on stage to receive an award, I bowed! LOL I felt kind of dumb but didn't realize it til after I had done it!
