I must also interject that rapists have not quit raping because their victims are now-days fighting back - my LEO friend, Darren Laur says that in interviews with rapists, they have found out that the rapist expects a fight and is he sees any sign of resistance, his plan is to knock her out and finsish his dirty deed, not quit.
Read Strong on Defense amd make your battle plan!
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The Fighting Old Man
Attacked in the shower
Moderator: Available
Attacked in the shower
Dana-Sensei,
A few thoughts on this scenario:
1 - ALWAYS lock your bathroom door. This will completely prevent the surprise situation happening, especially if you use an inside latch, bolt type lock. No need to go to a full deadbolt, but even a simple little push through latch will force the intruder to make enough noise for you to hear him coming and be prepared to make your stand.
2 - Use a translucent shower curtain. This way, you may actually SEE him coming.
3 - Keep a plunger (used ONLY for the tub and sink) in the shower with you. Thise with wooden handles are really great jo.
4 - have a towel rack at the back of your shower (out of the line of the spray, of course). Towels make great ropes and can be used to do binding moves, if necessary.
5 - Before you take your shower - CHECK THE DOORS!
This scenario is one of the most potentially dangerous ones there is. As another poster pointed out, there is little room to manuever, nowhere to retreat and the footing is almost always dangerous.
IF you have enough warning to get out of the shower, then a bathroom is often a wonerful arsenal of impromptu weapons - from the Drano under the sink to various aerosols to baby powder (ninja blinding powder has NOTHING on that stuff!) to toilet seats (great makeshift shields and battering weapons) to toilet cleaning chemicals and tools - you get the idea...
Taking steps to prevent the situation in the first place is the best way to keep it from happening, IMHO.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
A few thoughts on this scenario:
1 - ALWAYS lock your bathroom door. This will completely prevent the surprise situation happening, especially if you use an inside latch, bolt type lock. No need to go to a full deadbolt, but even a simple little push through latch will force the intruder to make enough noise for you to hear him coming and be prepared to make your stand.
2 - Use a translucent shower curtain. This way, you may actually SEE him coming.
3 - Keep a plunger (used ONLY for the tub and sink) in the shower with you. Thise with wooden handles are really great jo.
4 - have a towel rack at the back of your shower (out of the line of the spray, of course). Towels make great ropes and can be used to do binding moves, if necessary.
5 - Before you take your shower - CHECK THE DOORS!
This scenario is one of the most potentially dangerous ones there is. As another poster pointed out, there is little room to manuever, nowhere to retreat and the footing is almost always dangerous.
IF you have enough warning to get out of the shower, then a bathroom is often a wonerful arsenal of impromptu weapons - from the Drano under the sink to various aerosols to baby powder (ninja blinding powder has NOTHING on that stuff!) to toilet seats (great makeshift shields and battering weapons) to toilet cleaning chemicals and tools - you get the idea...
Taking steps to prevent the situation in the first place is the best way to keep it from happening, IMHO.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Attacked in the shower
I don't think a woman can get in a shower like she's preparing for war. Before installing bathroom arsenal, lock the front door. While I don't think the situation is as grave as Allen does, I agree it's superduper bad. I do think there is a role for compliance where resistance is going to be met with certain defeat. However, I think those moments are few and far between even among attacks which themselves are few and far between and stranger assaults in the BR, even more so.
[This message has been edited by Ian (edited July 03, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Ian (edited July 03, 2002).]
Attacked in the shower
The knife is the #1 problem.
He can't grab you; you're slick with soap.
You're freakin' with surprise so you jump back to the wall of the tub. Here comes the knife.
OK: Your slick skin is a slight advantage; actually you could grab his clothing with some kind of grip, while he can't hold you.
I propose dive low into the tub as he rushes in, grab his belly-area and try to hurl his head into the tiled wall.
You'll have superior grip on him than he on you. Plus you have soap.
As you "cower" you could be loading your hands with suds to nukite into his eyes.
Don't laugh: I once maced an opponent in the eyes with dog-stop pepper spray; the stuff postmen carry.
(Months later as we met in a reconciliatory pow-wow he confessed that he would rather have been shot.)It was a heavy scene, but don't discount the power of blinding the opponent: I think Uechi nukites are brilliant, unexpected and high-speed defenses which are completely practical.
Especially (please don't shred me!) FOR WOMEN! (I'm male.)
If most women flicked those lacquered L.A. Nails weapons in earnest there'd be a new meaning for "justice is blind"!
...If you could then manage to control that knife-hand for a second while you grab the pumice-stone...anyway, I agree overall: a nightmarish situation and low in survivability for general population.
MA training MIGHT give you just enough percent to to survive...
But again, securing your perimeters really is a MA mindset, and your first defense.
Just ask any Marine. NM
He can't grab you; you're slick with soap.
You're freakin' with surprise so you jump back to the wall of the tub. Here comes the knife.
OK: Your slick skin is a slight advantage; actually you could grab his clothing with some kind of grip, while he can't hold you.
I propose dive low into the tub as he rushes in, grab his belly-area and try to hurl his head into the tiled wall.
You'll have superior grip on him than he on you. Plus you have soap.
As you "cower" you could be loading your hands with suds to nukite into his eyes.
Don't laugh: I once maced an opponent in the eyes with dog-stop pepper spray; the stuff postmen carry.
(Months later as we met in a reconciliatory pow-wow he confessed that he would rather have been shot.)It was a heavy scene, but don't discount the power of blinding the opponent: I think Uechi nukites are brilliant, unexpected and high-speed defenses which are completely practical.
Especially (please don't shred me!) FOR WOMEN! (I'm male.)
If most women flicked those lacquered L.A. Nails weapons in earnest there'd be a new meaning for "justice is blind"!
...If you could then manage to control that knife-hand for a second while you grab the pumice-stone...anyway, I agree overall: a nightmarish situation and low in survivability for general population.
MA training MIGHT give you just enough percent to to survive...
But again, securing your perimeters really is a MA mindset, and your first defense.
Just ask any Marine. NM
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Attacked in the shower
I think some great thought has gone into all these ideas.
Here's a kicker though -- remember that you're "halfway through shampooing your hair". It's likely that the shampoo is going to get into YOUR eyes long before it gets into his.
How comfortable are you fighting blind? Lots of people will go for your eyes, lots of things can happen quickly in a fight. This is one place where those who do ground work or play push hands are going to have an advantage in their stand up skills -- they have more awareness of where the other person is by their sense of touch.
So because of the shampoo factor, I would close the gap and be all over him while screaming my lungs out the instant I could move. Because not long after that I'll be trying to fight him blind. So I'd rather close the gap first so I can get my hands on him - rather than wait for the shampoo to drip into my eyes and kill what little chance I had to begin with.
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited July 04, 2002).]
Here's a kicker though -- remember that you're "halfway through shampooing your hair". It's likely that the shampoo is going to get into YOUR eyes long before it gets into his.
How comfortable are you fighting blind? Lots of people will go for your eyes, lots of things can happen quickly in a fight. This is one place where those who do ground work or play push hands are going to have an advantage in their stand up skills -- they have more awareness of where the other person is by their sense of touch.
So because of the shampoo factor, I would close the gap and be all over him while screaming my lungs out the instant I could move. Because not long after that I'll be trying to fight him blind. So I'd rather close the gap first so I can get my hands on him - rather than wait for the shampoo to drip into my eyes and kill what little chance I had to begin with.
[This message has been edited by Dana Sheets (edited July 04, 2002).]
Attacked in the shower
I don't arm myself to shower and I often have aggressive hostile clients in the house.
But I did meet a guy (early thirties) who does - a smalish neck knife - he doesn't say why, really..."just practicing."
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The Fighting Old Man
But I did meet a guy (early thirties) who does - a smalish neck knife - he doesn't say why, really..."just practicing."
------------------
The Fighting Old Man
Attacked in the shower
Hmmm...I know you've done the FAST training and probably have more experience in being "attacked" than me, but I maintain that the knife is the major threat, and you DON'T want to lunge at a person with a knife.
Two really bad things can happen:
1: Perp thrusts as you lunge. You're impaled.
2: Perp pulls the knife behind his body as you lunge, fending you with his other arm, possibly controlling you. Now the knife comes around...very bad.
Either way, it's all about the knife first, then counterattack next.
I don't think you want to be "all over" a knife-wielding psycho while blinded,naked and slippery.
I say #1 establish distance, and #2 grab an implement for defense from the knife, THEN try to attack...if possible.
Wrapping a towel around your forearm might be a good first move, or grab the metal tub-rrack as a shield if there is one in your tub.
I'm no expert but I can't see lunging and hollering as a good move.
I assumed the scenario was 'you're alone' anyway.
It would be interesting to get the blade forum's input on this...I see it as a knife attack issue first and foremost, not a general hand-to-hand thing.
I did notice however Dana that you said "holding a knife" not "waving" or "thrusting" a knife, maybe he's really not prepared to use it, but just as a threat for other purposes. ??? Whaddya think? NM
Two really bad things can happen:
1: Perp thrusts as you lunge. You're impaled.
2: Perp pulls the knife behind his body as you lunge, fending you with his other arm, possibly controlling you. Now the knife comes around...very bad.
Either way, it's all about the knife first, then counterattack next.
I don't think you want to be "all over" a knife-wielding psycho while blinded,naked and slippery.
I say #1 establish distance, and #2 grab an implement for defense from the knife, THEN try to attack...if possible.
Wrapping a towel around your forearm might be a good first move, or grab the metal tub-rrack as a shield if there is one in your tub.
I'm no expert but I can't see lunging and hollering as a good move.
I assumed the scenario was 'you're alone' anyway.
It would be interesting to get the blade forum's input on this...I see it as a knife attack issue first and foremost, not a general hand-to-hand thing.
I did notice however Dana that you said "holding a knife" not "waving" or "thrusting" a knife, maybe he's really not prepared to use it, but just as a threat for other purposes. ??? Whaddya think? NM
Attacked in the shower
hello all- first off I have clear shower doors, so this is an offset opinion.
If you have shampoo coming in a stream down your face, you have about 5sec. max to do whatever it is you so choose. If you are lathered, graaping a bottle or shaving cream can isn't going to be very easy. Do you have shower mats? if so try to get out and land on it- if not aim the water in his face and poor things on the floor - make the situation a little bit even and let his shoes slip too! Harder to hit a moving target while you are moving too!
You will have to work a Naihanchi, Sanchin stance (do you have these?) and maintain balance as much as possible. You have ruled out all kicking to start with and your hands are up in submission. He more than likely does not want possessions (like the others said) or he would have rummaged through the house in search. He has a knife - you don't. You must immobilize the knife as quickly as possible because by now that shampoo is not far away from killing your vision. I would wife it off with one hand and rub it in his face while trying to separate my body from his weapon arm. then exit shower and take him to the gound. The floor is slick and once you make him fall, you know your BR better than he does. He has soap in his eyes, cannot stab you, and now is very disoriented. I would cut somewhere non-lethal in an "x" or something you could identify him with later. I would do something dislocation-wise to his knee or ankle so you could run and the probability of him laying there would be high. Then flee with the weapon and lock him in the bathroom!
~sunsu
P.S. excellent post Dana- I think everyone had thought and took part in this one! thanks!
If you have shampoo coming in a stream down your face, you have about 5sec. max to do whatever it is you so choose. If you are lathered, graaping a bottle or shaving cream can isn't going to be very easy. Do you have shower mats? if so try to get out and land on it- if not aim the water in his face and poor things on the floor - make the situation a little bit even and let his shoes slip too! Harder to hit a moving target while you are moving too!
You will have to work a Naihanchi, Sanchin stance (do you have these?) and maintain balance as much as possible. You have ruled out all kicking to start with and your hands are up in submission. He more than likely does not want possessions (like the others said) or he would have rummaged through the house in search. He has a knife - you don't. You must immobilize the knife as quickly as possible because by now that shampoo is not far away from killing your vision. I would wife it off with one hand and rub it in his face while trying to separate my body from his weapon arm. then exit shower and take him to the gound. The floor is slick and once you make him fall, you know your BR better than he does. He has soap in his eyes, cannot stab you, and now is very disoriented. I would cut somewhere non-lethal in an "x" or something you could identify him with later. I would do something dislocation-wise to his knee or ankle so you could run and the probability of him laying there would be high. Then flee with the weapon and lock him in the bathroom!
~sunsu
P.S. excellent post Dana- I think everyone had thought and took part in this one! thanks!
Attacked in the shower
Dana-Sensei,
I still believe that a LOCKED BATHROOM DOOR is a great starting point.
He will have to make noise to get in and that's when you start your defense.
Prevention is the name of the game in this scenario. It has to be, as others have pointed out, because a knife in a close-in fighting situation is VERY bad news for an unarmed, unprepared defender.
One note, there are still those nifty little plastic (kevlar) knives available at some surplus stores. Having one in the shower with you can certainly help even the odds - and they don't rust.
The other thing people haven't talked about is the towel rod. Usually, one good, hard pull and it will come out of the wall. You now have a jo to play with. Which can be very unpleasant for the attacker, especially if he comes through the locked door not expecting serious opposition.
Using one (the one in my shower is steel and hollow) to take a core sample of a perpetrator is a great way to discourage an attack.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
I still believe that a LOCKED BATHROOM DOOR is a great starting point.
He will have to make noise to get in and that's when you start your defense.
Prevention is the name of the game in this scenario. It has to be, as others have pointed out, because a knife in a close-in fighting situation is VERY bad news for an unarmed, unprepared defender.
One note, there are still those nifty little plastic (kevlar) knives available at some surplus stores. Having one in the shower with you can certainly help even the odds - and they don't rust.
The other thing people haven't talked about is the towel rod. Usually, one good, hard pull and it will come out of the wall. You now have a jo to play with. Which can be very unpleasant for the attacker, especially if he comes through the locked door not expecting serious opposition.
Using one (the one in my shower is steel and hollow) to take a core sample of a perpetrator is a great way to discourage an attack.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
