Half Soft - what does it mean?

[Guest]

This is of interest:
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Sure is, thank you Sensei for continuing to post this material.
You are incredibly well read, I have learned much hanging out in your forum. You put in a lot of work and run a smooth running ship. You don't let the PC stuff gets out of control and you don't put up with any crap in your room. Just thought it was time to say thanks. You rock Van!

ohhhhhhhh and you other moderators rock too

BTW, could you post a book title I'd like to read more of Dr. Levine's theories

Back to topic:

Fight, Flight or Freeze
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Doctor Peter A. Levine indicates that people and other mammals have three instinctive and biological responses to danger: fight, flight and freeze. When we sense danger, our nervous system begins a four-stage process of arousal. In the first stage, our muscles tense, and we begin the orienting response by looking for the source of danger.
We enter the second stage when we locate the source of danger. We mobilize, our bodies begin to produce adrenaline and cortisol, the two primary chemicals responsible for the fight or flight response.
In the third stage, we discharge this energy by fighting or running away. The fourth and final stage is when the nervous system returns to a state of balance.
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Okay I'm not much of a scientist , and I don't have data to back up anything so this is just my opinion. I'm very connected to the natural world. I live in a National Park and encounter game on a daily basis. (The PC folks may be confused, game = wildlife, also formerly known as meat )

Yesterday I encountered a nice mule deer buck on a less traveled back road. The deer responded as Dr. Levine indicates.
1. The head ears and eyes turn to assess my approach. (the threat)
2. The buck tenses and sinks slightly in preparation to flee or attack (Bill, you think mule deer understand pylometrics?)
3. The buck then began to tremble as it stood frozen crouched in this prejump position. (the buck was in denial , we will get into that later)
4. I continued to creep up on the buck in my noisy rumbling diesel truck. I get within 8 feet and he explodes over the guardrail and is gone.

Pretty much the way the Dr. says things should happen.

If when facing a dangerous threat, we become overwhelmed and are unable to fight or flee, we instinctively fall into immobility or the 'freeze' response.
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Okay here is where I see it differently. I agree with most of what the esteemed Dr. says about trauma and the two purposes of the defensive maneuver.
However I believe the good doctor has missed one of the primary reasons for the freeze response to a threat.

Its called camouflage. The deer froze when my truck approached it in attempt to blend into its background. (Oh **** maybe he didn't see me ) I've been their done that. Ran into a bear once and did the same thing. The bruin ignored me, probably knew I has in the area for a half-hour. Not the most effective survival strategy.

The response is instinctive; many predators have piss poor eyesight and depend on other methods to kill their prey. (Scent, sound, ambush) So if you don't move and your down wind you might be okay.

We human folks still have this response to threat as well. The problem with this survival strategy is that if it doesn't work you're in a world of **** because the threat is real close now. Then denial sets in, he doesn't see me he won't eat me etc.
At this point the panic overload (immobilization) the Doctor describes probably kicks in.

I know we human folks can respond just like an ungulate in the headlights:
Years ago strolling down a street in Halifax. The predator growls, what the **** are you looking at #####? I think he's not talking to me, I just glanced at that couple, he's talking to some one else. Just keep walking, you're late for work, etc. (blend into the background) didn't work Thing is as it turns out neither were that great to look at .

Not all predatory responses are effective and not all survival strategies are either.

Van I know you hunt, ever hunt partridge/grouse? I think the only reason these birds survive is because they are just a pain in the ass to clean. I frequently have shot these birds from 5 yards away while they attempt to bury themselves in the fallen leaves. Like no one will notice all the motion or noise? But it is an instinctive response.

I don't believe we can shut down millions of years of evolution. Some survival strategies are poor and natural selection cleans up lot of that.

I'm still here and have to work with what I was given. I don't know if you can deprogram your survival instincts so I tend to embrace them instead.

Example: When I get blind-sided I tend to go down and away with the hands up. IF this is how my automatic responses work why fight it. So I train multiple scenarios where I go down and away, coming up with maximum torque from the trunk and floor.

I also explore shearing through the attack as I come up going the attacking limb and neck with the forearm as I come up with the momentum.

I also have realized that over the years most altercations have involved my putting my hands in a squeeze/ tear/ choke on the neck, and taking the opponent to the ground via the neck (the body has to follow).

So why fight it, I now search my Uechi for those applications that my reptilian brain is going to revert to any ways.

Why not train for what your going to do instead of what you would like to do?

Laird

[Guest]

Took me forever to type and post that.In the mean time Norm said it in very few words!

Else where in the forums exsists a thread about arm rubbing and pounding.

Truth be known, I don't feel I'm training Uechi unless I do sticky hands and arm rubbing and pounding every day.

(kind of enjoy these drills)

In the mean I stumbled across all these really neat principles. I learned more about sanchin stance from arm rubbbing than from anyone pounding away at me in kata.

I learned how to root and to take away my opponents root.

I learned about balance and weight transfer.

I learned about deflection, protecting the center and taking the center.

I even played with the C word that gets Bill going .

Hey, I just had a ton of fun with it

And Jimmy just told me way back when it was just to prevent bruises to warm up your arms

You got to walk before you can run so I guess a little mushroom management is okay.

The lessons learned in these exercises may serve me well when I'm a frail oldtimer.

I suspect that I would not be able to land many a strike with out the help of the the soft yeilding side of Uechi.

When two bulls bump heads the strongest bull or the one with the thickest skull wins.

So if I'm not the biggest bull in the pen I need to find a way that works for me.

Even the top bull will grow old and weak one day. Sad to see such a devotion to power when it's no longer there.

Laird

[CANDANeh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> If when facing a dangerous threat, we become overwhelmed and are unable
to fight or flee, we instinctively fall into immobility or the 'freeze' response.

Dr. Levine explains that, "This defensive maneuver serves two purposes.
First, it may fool the attacker into losing interest, allowing us a chance to
escape. Second, we will not suffer any pain if we are injured or killed while in
this state, because in immobility, consciousness seems to leave the body
(psychologists call this phenomenon 'dissociation').<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of the documented cases I read, individuals mauled by bears who were in the frozen state felt no pain but could feel thugging and hear the sound of flesh being eaten i.e arm , as if it wasn`t theirs. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>although most people-overly macho men in particular-think that
having a huge Fight response is a really, really good thing, the fact remains
that it can often been a very, very misserving character trait, and one that
winds up being the demise of the individual that possesses it. There is a time
and place for all three of these tools. Sometimes it is better to
Fight…sometimes it is smarter to engage in Flight and sometimes it is smartest
to do nothing at all and simply Freeze.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Laird can better cover this, but the example I give is if it be a black bear fight or flight if doing nothing at all results in attack, if its the brown bear (Grizz)accept freeze as fight flight poor choices. Dealing with people it is more complex and less predictable IMHO, learning to manage all three responses with conscious thought will be a lofty goal at least for me.

[Van Canna]

Here is more good reading: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Constriction refers to the narrowing of life that results from trauma. Emotions are dulled and attention shifts from building a future to simply surviving. There is a powerful chemistry to constriction that creates an altered sense of reality, constructed for the purpose of emotional safety.

For example, when an animal becomes dinner for a predator higher up in the food chain, it freezes and releases endorphins. It meets its end in this anesthetized, spaced out state, where struggling and suffering have ceased.

Human beings can go into an analogous state of numbness and unreality where events seem to be happening at a distance, in slow motion. This detached state of numbness is similar to a hypnotic trance. Traumatized people experience this state automatically, and may also seek it consciously through alcohol or drugs in an attempt to quiet their terror. Unfortunately, addiction is common in those with PTSD. It inhibits the healing process since life is narrowed to the immediate concern of staying relatively comfortable in the present, with little regard for the future.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Little more complex than we think when dealing with the potential of street violence. This is what most traditional martial artists are not exposed to in their learning of mental aspects of confrontational violence, that is why they usually come back at us with things like “Uechi Ryu is a complete system, it works if you train right, it has worked for me many times etc.”

It may have here and there,and it probably will again, and we must continue to have confidence in our training, but that’s no excuse to not continue in depth studies of the human psyche in combat, and other more defining cross concepts.

To learn more about the subject, I recommend two books. Trauma and Recovery by Judith Lewis Herman, M.D. is scholarly and accurate. [ above] __ It provides a very useful map for the territory of trauma and recovery.

Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma by Peter A. Levine is designed as a manual for recovery from what is known as post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

Most people who own televisions, the great majority of us, have watched enough of the news that images of the trade center towers crumbling will stay forever etched in the limbic systems of our brains. The limbic system is the seat of emotions. Rather than storing terrifying images verbally, it encodes terror as visual images that can be stubborn, long-lasting, and potent.

Same thing happens if you were to take a serious beating or worse on the street. Panther has touched upon this many times, but people prefer to embrace denial and talk about their successful self defense stories against some face slapping punk.

As it has been suggested, the ones who went through some real bad experiences, are usually not so “flippant”_ a good example is the manner in which Panther reported his ugly confrontation. No bravado there at all, just down and dirty reality.


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Van Canna

[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited September 08, 2002).]

[krymrgn]

Blessings Dana, and all;

I've always considered the half hard half soft to be both within and without. Meaning some of the techniques are meant to be hard- hitting strike your oponent and kill'um'dead' (LOL) and soft moves, graceful things that can be fast or slow... Personaly....

But I think honestly that a large part of the half "soft" part is within. The "spirit" part, and I'm not refering to "a fire in the belly" kind of spirit I'm talking about a person's heart. The essense of their being, a soul. To have someone come after you- is to pity that person, not because of the hurt they will suffer on their body- but the hurt they must be suffering inside their heart- to "want" to hurt another. Mind body and spirit. The aspect of half hard half soft are found in every part of the practice of Uechi- When standing in Sanchin- you relax everything except that which needs to be moving.... The relaxed part- is soft- waiting to do what's expected next- but resting until then. Pity 'da foo' that tries to hurt you, for the pain in their heart must be much greater than that which they are trying to inflict upon you. But don't let him hurt you or anyone you love.
half hard- but half soft

an opinion.
kerry

[Bill Glasheen]

Van

Interesting stuff; much useful information.

There's also a certain part of it that seems a bit much.

Ever listen to a daily stock market report? People talk about the Dow going up or going down, and then will give a reason why. In my book, about 50% of the time they come up with some lame reason that's nothing more than an event that just happened to go on that day. No causality whatsoever. But...they get paid to say something.

I spend a good deal of my time creating mathematical models to predict things. However one of the great discoveries - in my book - was the field of nonlinear mathematics. Nonlinear systems - under certain conditions - become "chaotic." When a system is in chaos, you can't predict the outcome unless you know the initial conditions to an infinite number of significant digits. This means that at certain times, you cannot predict what will happen to a nonliner system.

Not surprisingly enough, biological systems are inherently nonlinear. They behave in a linear fashion under most normal conditions. But a life/death situation is far from normal, and would be the classic transition into a chaotic state.

So, what does this mean? Well if I'm a wolf and I'm hunting a rabbit, I'm going to end up killing all the rabbits if I always know what they are going to do. If I kill all the rabbits, then there will be no more rabbits. That means both wolf and rabbit disappear. So it seems that being unpredictable when confronted with death is perhaps good for both prey AND predator. Species have evolved to be inherently nonlinear as a means of survival.

What to do, attack, flee, or freeze? Perhaps it isn't a great choice for the individual to choose any one at any certain point in time. But it is vital for the species that the end result be a roll of the die when things REALLY hit the fan.

At the end of the day, we shouldn't beat ourselves up for why we did this or that at a certain point.

It is true that experience and a developed mind overrides many of these situations. Having complete control means never getting to that chaotic state. Complete control can come from confidence and knowledge and experience and awareness. But being out of control isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world.

One other thing... It really bothers me that folks think endorphins are released to help an animal accept death. Survival of the species is a process that doesn't give a *&%$ about feelings. In my mind, that state of numbness is a SURVIVAL mechanism that either allows the individual to do what is necessary to survive, or allows the individual to do what is necessary to help the progeny survive. At some point, pain is like that fire alarm that goes off when you are in the kitchen and you KNOW there is smoke everywhere. Just like you run to take the battery out so you can undo your terrible mess in the oven, so too does the body have a mechanism to turn off an alarm system that can be distracting when in the "contraction" phase you speak of above.

Anyhow, just the opinions of a biologist/mathematician/chaologist.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

One other thing... It really bothers me that folks think endorphins are released to help an animal accept death. Survival of the species is a process that doesn't give a *&%$ about feelings. In my mind, that state of numbness is a SURVIVAL mechanism that either allows the individual to do what is necessary to survive, or allows the individual to do what is necessary to help the progeny survive.

Bill,

Good arguments.But I never forgot the sight of a prey animal, think it was a zebra, totally frozen still as the "pack" bit huge chunks of flesh from its body, without any reaction or change of expression from the animal.

Kind of makes you think.

[Bill Glasheen]

Dana

Check out the thread on my forum

Half Hard/Half Soft

More and more, I take the characters that describe the system to be more of acknowledging dichotomies rather than speaking of any ONE thing that is "hard" or "soft." A better descriptions might be half yang, half yin or (my favorite) a little of this and a little of that.

Sometimes we meet force with force, and sometimes we yield.

Sometimes we apply strength, and sometimes we tap into the partner's strength.

Sometimes we impose, and sometimes we feel.

Some muscles are tense, and some muscles are relaxed.

We remain firm on the outer part of our trunk, but do not "hold our breath."

Some motions are slow and strong, whereas others are quick and relaxed.

Sometimes a shoken/hiraken is a thrust, and sometimes a shoken/hiraken is a nasty, flesh-ripping grab.

In any one move, some muscles act as endurance stabilizers, and others act as explosive power generators.

We are distracted by nothing, but are aware of everything.

It goes on and on...

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

Van

I see your point. However at that instance the system has failed. The fact that the zebra feels nothing is a product of the state it entered to survive and respond to a few nasty bites. If it could have escaped, it would have done so because it wasn't distracted by the enormous pain. That's a powerful survival mechanism.

Once being eaten, the lack of pain is serendipity and not design. If we were programmed to accept death at the mouths of the predator, then we (as a species) wouldn't be here long.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

One more point...

An exception to that rule would be the domesticated animal, or animal that has a symbiotic relationship with another. Cows are docile because we breed them that way. They continue to "survive" because we have taken an active role in the natural selection process. We continue to breed those that make great steaks and give us milk. But if humans disappear, domesticated cows won't survive very well.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

Bill,

Good points.

But in some of us, or most of us, that initial tension will be there. The trick is to be able to channel it.

[Bill Glasheen]

Absolutely.

Again, my perspective comes from 10,000 feet. It is there to show why some things happen. The driver in this situation (using theories from Darwin and the sociobiologists) is survival of the species as a whole.

In the scheme of things, individuals get eliminated. If you happen to do something stupid and it is by nature, well you will be eliminated from the gene pool and - perhaps - make it to someone's "Darwin awards" e-mail distribution.

But what YOU are talking about is the nurture side of things. Given we have the genetic cards we are dealt, what can we do to maximize our probability of survival? The one advantage we have over most other species is a greater self awareness, and capacity to learn on the fly. Thus we have a stronger nuture component to this whole survival equation.

So...bring on the ice water!

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

Great. And I mean it. It's great that we all seem to understand that Uechi is to use sometimes one thing and sometimes another and that we will react sometimes one way and sometimes another.

It's even better to know that there are differences in the fight, flight, or freeze reactions.

How does this knowledge SPECIFICALLY translate into dojo training?

I'm talking drills & exercises. I don't like the answer of "train long enough and you'll find it" because that statement doesn't describe HOW to train. HOW CAN WE TRAIN to develop a "half soft intelligence" and a "half hard intelligence" to our fighting?

Dana

[Bill Glasheen]

Dana

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

I don't like the answer of "train long enough and you'll find it"

Thank you, thank you, thank you.... I've never been from the school of automatic pilot or divine inspiration either. I too think you have to work this information (the kata and such) to extract the knowledge.

I can't tell you "the" way, but I can share my own path. I had no problem with the yang side of things, because 1) I am male, 2) I started at age 17, and 3) "hard" is easy for a young 17-year-old male. I figured the way to learn the yin was to seek out the internal arts and see what I picked up.

I started training with "the D.C. crowd" in taiji, bagua, and xingi - the big three "internal arts." But as a young fellow and at that point in time, I found that approach to be too slow and the level of knowledge of these styles in the U.S. at the time to be so bad that the experience was essentially worthless. So instead I went to the Japanese approach - aikido. It served me well.

The thing I liked about aikido is that I didn't have to learn a whole lot of new "stuff" (kata or forms that looked very little like my own). In the aikido dojo you first learn ukemi. Actually you'd think that was a means to the end - the throwing stuff - but it's really an important part of the yin side of things. I soon learned the tremendous advantage I had over others because I wasn't afraid to fall. In ukemi we learn how to "give in" so we can come back and strike again.

And of course the actual throwing in aikido is done primarily by controlling the center (and your opponent's center) and not by brute force. It is the very exercise in yielding and going with the flow that I personally needed to awaken that side of my fighting.

That worked for me, and STARTED me on my journey. There are other approaches. If you can do chi sao with a great wing chun practitioner or push hands with the likes of Master Hee, well that's also a great way to explore the yin side of things. If not, open a book or buy a tape, learn what you can, and then just do it. Someone else can come along and clean up your "mess" later.

- Bill

[krymrgn]

Blessings;

To avoid any chaos I believe would be to avoid balance- you can't have one without the other- which is what you said awesome-

Specific Training: I'm not a Sensei- but I live with one. Maybe the way to specificaly train, without saying train long and hard enough and you'll see- (though- the longer you train the more chances you have to learn... that's a given right?)My husband suggests this in our classes... Do Sanchin as a Tiger- Become a tiger, feel as a tiger would, use your imagination... Do the same for Dragon and Crane. Each one becomes quite different. Do Sanchin as slow and strong as you can, thinking about each move specificaly, then do so as fast as you can. The same ideas can apply to all excersizes. And personaly, I think sitting down in the Dojo, and quieting your mind can do wonders. You wouldn't believe the focus, it can provoak. Try doing the Kata inside your mind, then do it physically. In the morning when you first wake up- stand up and do Sanchin. That'll show ya hard and soft parts LOL specially if you are like me and think Mornings are a very cruel joke and should be eliminated LOL.

Just a couple thoughts on where I've found both hard and soft measures of Uechi....

krymrgn@hotmail.com