Hi-
Have any other wommen out there experienced lower back pain like in-between the hips after practicing several "Sanchins" or hours of practice within "Sanchin"? I have a few ideas on what might be causing this, not the least of which is doing it "wrong" (LOL) but I thought I'd ask if others have delt with this and what they came up with.
Thanks
Kerry
Sanchin and back pain
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Sanchin and back pain
Kerry - I felt lower back pain when I first started training. And I spent a lot of time building my trunk, stomach, and lower back muscles.
For a good while I was doing iron bridge training. I've written about it several times if you do a search in the archives of this or Bill's forum you should find it.
But I'm interested to hear what you think the causes are -- back pain is an important symptom. The back is connected to everthing!
dana
For a good while I was doing iron bridge training. I've written about it several times if you do a search in the archives of this or Bill's forum you should find it.
But I'm interested to hear what you think the causes are -- back pain is an important symptom. The back is connected to everthing!
dana
Sanchin and back pain
Well, I thought that maybe I had/have been tucking my hips to far forward. When I took singing lessons a wicked long time ago- I was "taught" how to stand for proper breathing- right- one of the things my teacher mentioned was that women tend to stick their butt out when they stand- most unconsciously- (he didn't put it that way- but that's what he was saying) At any rate- I thought that maybe- if I had fallen back into that (no pun intended LOL) that the contradition in correcting it durring Sanchin- would cause the pain... or correcting it too much- I've addressed this with my Sensei too- so he's aware of it- he thinks I'm over-correcting.
I'll look up the other info you mentioned as after 4 yrs of training- it actually has gotten a little worse. I've had two children too, so maybe that's got something to do with it- tilted hips or something maybe-
K-
I'll look up the other info you mentioned as after 4 yrs of training- it actually has gotten a little worse. I've had two children too, so maybe that's got something to do with it- tilted hips or something maybe-
K-
Sanchin and back pain
Kerry:
My expertise on back pain is purely from a sufferer's point of view...!
I started Uechi in 1998 after having rolled myself into the doctor's office in a wheelchair, because I could not stand.
I "threw my back out" (translation: severe muscle spasm in lower back: like a charlie-horse of the low back muscles.)
Anyway; Karate training has completely transformed my entire concept of standing, walking, sitting, lifting, moving, bending...everything related to posture and balance.
It took over two years before I no longer experienced DAILY "warning pain" in my lower back.
On the rare days that it creeps up on me now, I find the "tucking" stance instantly stabilizes my lower back, bracing the muscles and preventing the advance of the deadly throwout.
I know women have a different hip-structure than men , but for me the benefits of Karate training and concepts of stance and balance have been a miracle cure.
Bear in mind too, that every 10 pounds of excess stomach weight produce 100 pounds of pressure on the spinal column.
Adding the generally poor posture I see in people all around me is a recipe for disaster for them.
I'll give you a name to research:
Moshe Feldenkrais.
Check it out, you'll be amazed. NM
My expertise on back pain is purely from a sufferer's point of view...!
I started Uechi in 1998 after having rolled myself into the doctor's office in a wheelchair, because I could not stand.
I "threw my back out" (translation: severe muscle spasm in lower back: like a charlie-horse of the low back muscles.)
Anyway; Karate training has completely transformed my entire concept of standing, walking, sitting, lifting, moving, bending...everything related to posture and balance.
It took over two years before I no longer experienced DAILY "warning pain" in my lower back.
On the rare days that it creeps up on me now, I find the "tucking" stance instantly stabilizes my lower back, bracing the muscles and preventing the advance of the deadly throwout.
I know women have a different hip-structure than men , but for me the benefits of Karate training and concepts of stance and balance have been a miracle cure.
Bear in mind too, that every 10 pounds of excess stomach weight produce 100 pounds of pressure on the spinal column.
Adding the generally poor posture I see in people all around me is a recipe for disaster for them.
I'll give you a name to research:
Moshe Feldenkrais.
Check it out, you'll be amazed. NM
Sanchin and back pain
Ahh yes; that excess: I've been able to work off 30 of that excess, and have found that it has lessoned some of the back pain, though I also experienced it at 108 lbs. Which is why I thought "over tucking" possibly to contribute. Is that possible, I wonder... I will check out the name gladly!
Maybe something in my back is outta wack and shows up in the correcting of posture/Sanchin- as of late, I have also experienced tingly down my right arm and hand, at strange times- for instance- sitting in a chair watching TV. It'll just shoot down and cause my hand to go numb, or tweek my elbow. Spose I should look into that too. I haven't fallen or been in any accidents either.
I'm glad to hear the pain is better for you. I've experienced those before and the pain is exruciating.
I also recently, reletively recently realized I wasn't even standing "in" Sanchin correctly, knees weren't positioned right- so maybe with that correction it will help too. It's amazing how it all connects. I started trtying to correct my stance due to flat feet, then noticed my knees, then the back pain.... humn great big "DUH" on me or what? LOL
Thanks for the help, and info!
K-
Maybe something in my back is outta wack and shows up in the correcting of posture/Sanchin- as of late, I have also experienced tingly down my right arm and hand, at strange times- for instance- sitting in a chair watching TV. It'll just shoot down and cause my hand to go numb, or tweek my elbow. Spose I should look into that too. I haven't fallen or been in any accidents either.
I'm glad to hear the pain is better for you. I've experienced those before and the pain is exruciating.
I also recently, reletively recently realized I wasn't even standing "in" Sanchin correctly, knees weren't positioned right- so maybe with that correction it will help too. It's amazing how it all connects. I started trtying to correct my stance due to flat feet, then noticed my knees, then the back pain.... humn great big "DUH" on me or what? LOL
Thanks for the help, and info!
K-
Sanchin and back pain
I too noticed that for quite a while I was standing in sanchin with the wrong emphasis. I thought in order to bring my abductor muscles in for protection from a groin kick, I needed to bring bring my knees closer to each other, yet maintaining my feet in hour glass stance.
What I was actually doing was not keeping my hips under and trying to achieve the same results with my legs. The result, nagging back pain after sanchin.
If the hips are tucked, feet positioned correctly, and knees following the natural orientation they should go...the back doesn't hurt anymore. Hips absolutely have to be correct.
I also notice due to a mild scoliosis (and trying to keep my back straight, I had in the past fatigued my back. I have a double curve from the front as well as the side. It is really noticeable when I am trying to lie flat on the floor, prostrate, to do leg lifts and such. Very difficult without some reinforcement under my pelvis.
Sanchin over the years though has improved my posture phenomenally....a major plus.
Vicki
What I was actually doing was not keeping my hips under and trying to achieve the same results with my legs. The result, nagging back pain after sanchin.
If the hips are tucked, feet positioned correctly, and knees following the natural orientation they should go...the back doesn't hurt anymore. Hips absolutely have to be correct.
I also notice due to a mild scoliosis (and trying to keep my back straight, I had in the past fatigued my back. I have a double curve from the front as well as the side. It is really noticeable when I am trying to lie flat on the floor, prostrate, to do leg lifts and such. Very difficult without some reinforcement under my pelvis.
Sanchin over the years though has improved my posture phenomenally....a major plus.
Vicki
Sanchin and back pain
Vicki;
Thank you! That's exactly what I needed! I will check myself for those positionings.
THANKS!
K
Thank you! That's exactly what I needed! I will check myself for those positionings.
THANKS!
K
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Sanchin and back pain
This was an interesting idea I explored at camp during a session with Joan Neide.
Sanchin should be natural to you. So start walking. You know, like a normal person. Then, when you're not paying attention, STOP. Freeze both feet in the middle of a stride (i.e. you just stepped out and planted your front foot but you have fully come off your back foot yet.
This is the length of your natural stride at your natural walking pace. A good rough rule of thumb for the length of your sanchin stance.
Now push your front heel out a little, and drop your weight down into your hips and bring your arms up to sanchin.
Again - the idea is examine the length of the stance. Your walking stride may be a little more narrow than what you need for sanchin.
Now the rest of this is my extrapolation --
When you walk at an even pace, you take a certain size of step. When you walk slowly, you often take smaller steps, when you walk very quickly you take much larger steps.
If I try to translate that into fighting -- when I'm at a short range I may have a smaller sanchin stance. When I'm at medium range (bridging range) I'll have my "typical" sanchin. When I need to cover some distance like the beginning of a sparring match) then I'll need a long sanchin.
Then, as the action flows I'll flow between my different sanchin stances as the need happens. So to me there is no single sanchin stance. There is a baseline sanchin for sure, but after that the stance, along with the weapons I use, but be adapted to the distance I'm dealing with.
Kerry - this may not help your back pain - but it sounds like you're getting some ideas to use to explore the stance. Which is great. Sanchin shouldn't be painful. So my general comment would be to try to relax just a little, and let your body go to the posture naturally. It may not look in the mirror like a text-book sanchin but it may help you find yours.
Dana
Sanchin should be natural to you. So start walking. You know, like a normal person. Then, when you're not paying attention, STOP. Freeze both feet in the middle of a stride (i.e. you just stepped out and planted your front foot but you have fully come off your back foot yet.
This is the length of your natural stride at your natural walking pace. A good rough rule of thumb for the length of your sanchin stance.
Now push your front heel out a little, and drop your weight down into your hips and bring your arms up to sanchin.
Again - the idea is examine the length of the stance. Your walking stride may be a little more narrow than what you need for sanchin.
Now the rest of this is my extrapolation --
When you walk at an even pace, you take a certain size of step. When you walk slowly, you often take smaller steps, when you walk very quickly you take much larger steps.
If I try to translate that into fighting -- when I'm at a short range I may have a smaller sanchin stance. When I'm at medium range (bridging range) I'll have my "typical" sanchin. When I need to cover some distance like the beginning of a sparring match) then I'll need a long sanchin.
Then, as the action flows I'll flow between my different sanchin stances as the need happens. So to me there is no single sanchin stance. There is a baseline sanchin for sure, but after that the stance, along with the weapons I use, but be adapted to the distance I'm dealing with.
Kerry - this may not help your back pain - but it sounds like you're getting some ideas to use to explore the stance. Which is great. Sanchin shouldn't be painful. So my general comment would be to try to relax just a little, and let your body go to the posture naturally. It may not look in the mirror like a text-book sanchin but it may help you find yours.
Dana
