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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 1999 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Following is my description of Okikukai's Yakusoku Kumite based on personal instruction and a video of an Okinawan demo from about six years ago. Even though I am affiliated with SOKE, I still train this kumite because that is what it is - training. I don't require it as a testing requirement and only use it with sankyu and higher.

If anyone (John T, etc) has any corrections, please feel free to list them. This may have changed over the last six years.


L=left. R=right. A=attacker. D=defender.


1 - Both in L sanchin.
A - Steps forward into R sanchin and throws a R lunge punch.
D - Steps back into R sanchin and does a R circle block followed by a R front kick.

2 - Both in L sanchin.
A - Steps forward into R sanchin and throws a R lunge punch.
D - Steps back into R sanchin and does a R circle block.
A - Steps forward into L sanchin and throws a L lunge punch.
D - Steps back into L sanchin and does a L circle block followed by a R shoken punch.

3 - A in R sanchin. D in L sanchin.
A - Steps forward into L sanchin and throws a L lunge punch.
D - Slide steps back into L sanchin and does a R palm heel block.
A - Steps forward into R sanchin and throws a R lunge punch.
D - Steps back and to the left into R sanchin and does a R circle block followed by a R front kick.

4 - Both in L sanchin.
A - Steps forward into R sanchin and throws a R lunge punch.
D - Steps back into R sanchin and does a R circle block.
A - Steps forward into L sanchin and throws a L lunge punch followed by a L front kick.
D - Steps back into L sanchin and does a L circle block and a L down block.
D - Grabs A’s left arm and throws a R shoken punch to the face.

5 - A in R sanchin. D in L sanchin.
A - Steps forward into L sanchin and throws a L lunge punch.
D - Steps back into R sanchin and does a R circle block.
A - Throws a R front kick ending up in R sanchin.
D - Steps back into L sanchin and does a L down block.
A - Maintains position and throws a R lunge punch.
D - Maintains position and does a L circle block followed by a R shoken punch to the body.

6 - A in L sanchin. D in R sanchin.
A - Throws a R roundhouse kick ending up in R sanchin.
D - Slide steps back into R sanchin and does a L "X" block.
A - Maintains position and throws a R lunge punch.
D - Maintains position and does a L palm heel block.
A - Throws a L roundhouse kick ending up in L sanchin.
D - Steps back into L sanchin and does a R "X" block.
A - Throws a L lunge punch.
D - Maintains position and does a R palm heel block followed by a L seiken punch to face.

7 - Both in L sanchin.
A - Steps forward into R sanchin and throws a R lunge punch.
D - Slide steps back into L sanchin and does a L palm heel block.
A - Steps forward into L sanchin and throws a L lunge punch.
D - Slide steps back into L sanchin and does a R palm heel block.
D - Throws a R roundhouse kick ending up in R sanchin.
A - Steps back into R sanchin and does a L "X" block.
D - Maintains position and throws a R lunge punch.
A - Maintains position and does a L circle block followed by a R lunge punch.
D - Maintains position and does a L circle block followed by a R front kick (bringing leg to rear).

8 - Both in L sanchin.
A - Steps forward into R sanchin and throws a R lunge punch.
D - Maintains position and does a L circle block.
D - Steps forward into R sanchin and throws a R shuto.
A - Steps back into L sanchin and does a L rising block.
A - Throws a L roundhouse kick ending up in R sanchin.
D - Maintains position and does a L "X" block.
A - Maintains position and throws a L reverse punch.
D - Maintains position and does a R circle block followed by a L boshiken to the face.

9 - A in R sanchin. D in L sanchin.
A - Throws a L front kick ending up in L sanchin.
D - Steps back into R sanchin and does a R down block.
A - Throws a R roundhouse kick ending up in R sanchin.
D - Slide steps back into R sanchin and does a L "X" block.
D - Throws a R roundhouse kick.
A - Maintains position and does a L "X" block.
D - Maintains position and throws a R lunge punch.
A - Maintains position and does a L circle block followed by a R front kick.
D - Moves left leg back into a low R horse stance and does a R shoken scooping block capturing the A’s right leg and throwing it, turning A around.
D - Steps forward into L sanchin, grabs A’s right shoulder with left hand (left elbow against A’s back) and throws a R shoken punch to the back of A’s head.

10 - A in R sanchin. D in L sanchin.
A - Throws a R front kick.
D - Does a L shin block (returning left leg to the rear).
A - Throws a L roundhouse kick (returning kicking leg to the rear).
D - Does a R shin block (returning right leg to the rear).
A - Throws a R lunge punch.
D - Does a L circle block, controls the arm, steps forward into R sanchin between A’s legs, does a R horizontal elbow strike to the body and a R backfist to the face.
D - Maintaining control of A, places his right leg behind A’s right leg, sweeps and pulls A down and follows with a R shoken punch to the body.


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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 1999 3:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2437
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Moe-san:

Not much change:

Point one, defender kicks, then returns kick thru chamber to land in a left sachin again.

Then Uke rtreats back two steps and tore move back to his original position in unison with Uke.

Point two:
Exact, maybe seiken for safety.

Repeat "reset" move except Uke clears back to right Sanchin to set up for three.

Point three:
Exact, except Uke (attacvker) clears back to Left SAnchin to set ou for four. Tore returns his right foot to the rear to end up in Left stance.

Point four:
Exact, except the left kick is a sokuto geri and the parry by Tore a "soft" two palm hand low block and sometimes the grab after is made nearer to the collar. I was shown it the way you have it.

Point five:

exact, except for the recentering "danse" and sometimes the softer two handed lower parry is used.

Point Six:

exact.


Point Seven:
Exact.

Point Eight:

exact.

Point NIne:

exact. Sometimes two hand soft block used intead of Gedan Berai . No need to reset as in the other point, after Uke is "thrown" by Tore, he spins back around to a right Sanchin and Point ten is taked from there.

Point 10.

Exact. Probably O-Soto gari throw as finish.


Thanks, I'vee printed yours out for my notebook and will type a slightly different version shortly.


JOHN T



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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 1999 6:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 18
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Hey, its great to see all this in print!! Although I am by no means an expert, here's how they had me doing it in Takamiyagi - Sensei's dojo last time I was there (almost 2 years ago, though I'm headed back in May)

Defender always starts in L sanchin, attacker always in L except for #3,5,9,10 (which start in R sanchin) I didn't check this part of your post very closely, but it looked right to me...

#2: defender steps back into a medium-level horse stance for the final shoken blow, which is often demonstrated as a seiken for safety.

#4: Attacker does a left side snap kick instead of a front kick.

#5: Defender maintains L sanchin throughout, using slide steps as spacing requires.

#6: The defender's second palm-heel block is directed somewhat downward to clear the face/neck for the finel return strike.

#10: The defender steps into the attacker with a medium-to-high horse stance for the elbow/back fist, then continues the movement for the throw. This movement would be nearly simultaneous, except for safety and control issues, and the upper part of the throw is directed towards the clavicle and/or shoulder ball-joint for a break/dislocation during the throw - but NOT in the dojo!!

If I see anything different on this trip to Okinawa, I will post it directly. Hope this helps, and wish I could train with you guys - all I have to work with is the students I trained, and they obviously do what I do(for better or worse!!). Take care

Chris Long
gunzoku@aol.com


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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 1999 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17202
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Chris

Good to hear from you.

Since you have spent a good deal of time with kyu and dan kumite, how do you feel about doing this one? To some extent, it seems annoyingly similar - to the point that it would mess you up. Also, I find it interesting that the sequences are so brief.

Wish YOU were HERE. We could have fun with this as well as with extracurricular activities.

Bill

P.S. Before you go back, let me see if I can dig up a photo for you to pass on to Takamiyagi sensei. I think he'll enjoy it. E-mail me an address.

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 03-25-99).]


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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 1999 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2437
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Bill Sensei:

Actually I don't mind "Yakusoku" so much. I have no business "rating" the Kumite. It is confusing to try to do Dan, Kyu and Yakusoku all as part of the same curriculum because of the similarities (you'd think this would make it easier). Maybe somebody with a larger school could comment with more authority.

"Big Blue", I am told, is not the "Shohei Ryu" Kyuhon, as I represented it, it is, I guess, the Kyuhon is "strictly the Chatan Dojo Manual". I will drop by another Shohei school soon and see if there is much difference. Locally there should not be because most of the Seniors Learned Yakusoku based on what was showon at the 1994 Seminar.

I am told that the Fukyu Gata form are also Shorin and the performer Nakazato Sensei of the Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu school. Apparently these form are shared by many systems (except Uechi) and I have no idea whether they will become a permanent part of the "curriculum" as of today, they are not.

More later as I read some material over. I will e-mail something to you today.

Thanks.

JOHN T

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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 1999 9:05 pm 
Hello all,

Fugyugata, (aka Fukyu kata), were invented by Shoshin Nagamine and Chojun Miyagi

because the kata of the Shuri and Naha schools had been too difficult for beginners.In 1940, two of the compositions were authorized to be the formal basic kata by the special committee of The Okinawa Karate-do organized and summoned by Gen. Hayakawa, then governor of Okinawa Prefecture.

--The Essence of Okinawan Karate-Do
Shoshin Nagamine
Charles E. Tuttle Co.
Rutland, VT
p.104


I just thought you might be interested.

------------------
maurice richard libby
toronto/moose jaw

[This message has been edited by maurice richard libby (edited 03-25-99).]


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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 1999 6:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 18
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Howdy again, folks!!

Its unnusual for me to speak so much on line in a month, but here goes...

The yakusoku kumite used in the Okikukai is indeed "simpler" in terms of sequence size and flow required. Not to digress, but I think of our style as having the land of kata, the isle of kumite, and a bridge spanning them composed of bunkai and pre-arranged sparring. Dan kumite was very close to the isle of kumite (in my simplified understanding of the world), whereas kyu kumite was closer to mid-span (assuming you are working with willing and reasonably knowledgeable partners). To me, the Okikukai's yakusoku kumite is much closer to an expanded kyu kumite set, and draws back somewhat from the region of straight sparring. It does however offer expanded practice with the types of control required for dojo sparring, and remains fun to do. I have found that for me, I need to concentrate myself on either the Dan/Kyu kumite sets, or the yakusoku kumite sets for extended periods of time to do them with any proficiency. They are just to similar to move back and forth on a regular basis.

It might seem like something has been taken away with the removal of Dan kumite - even I feel this way sometimes. But Takamiyagi-Sensei's dojo also includes a lot of flow and closure drills that are not tested, but are much closer to straight kumite than the pre-arranged set offers. They in essence go from yakusoku kumite (roughly equivalent to the kyu kumite's relative position on my "bridge") over to the "isle", and offer flexible, flowing, hard-charging alternatives - just shy of sparring. So nothing has been "taken" away. The emphasis and purpose of pre-arrranged sparring has simply been more closely defined.

Drew Doolin is still living in Okinawa, and might have some valuable insights to offer us on all these issues. Hope this helped clarify the muddy waters a little, though you need to remember my rank as a "guppy", or whatever our on-line system is (I never seem to be able to pay enough attention to catch where I rate on this festive scale).

On a personal note to Bill:
my address is 800 W. Forest Meadows #269
Flagstaff, AZ 86001

Send me your tired, your poor, your - er - pictures. But also send me 38 special!!!

Chris Long


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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 1999 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17202
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
John T

It makes sense that the Big Blue Book of Shohei is a Chatan dojo book. The original kihon with Uechi Kanei's name on it contained many hours of Takamiyagi-san's work. It's only fair that he spun off his own version. Academics do this all the time in the peer-reviewed literature. (Right J.D.??)

Chris

I'll see if I can dig up the picture I'm thinking of. I sent many of the originals to George, but I think I kept the negatives.

In any case, I'll e-mail or send you a copy of my 38 special form writeup.

-- Bill


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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 1999 1:37 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 6022
Location: Mount Dora, Florida
I still have the documentation and video Bill. Let me know if you need a copy.


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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 1999 2:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2437
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Bill Sensei:

Did you receive E-Mail and attachment?

JOHN T

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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 1999 6:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17202
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
John

Not yet.

Bill


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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 1999 11:37 am 
Hi Moe,

I've got another book with Okikukai's Yakusoku Kumite in it. I'll compare notes as soon as I am able to.<font color=green>

------------------
Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org


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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 1999 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2437
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Bill Sensei:

I sent it----
but I'' try again.

JOHN T

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 Post subject: Okikukai Yakusoku Kumite
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 1999 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
Chris has it right, defender always starts in left Sanchin.

Although okikukai has been adopted as the Dan test kumite in ShoHeiRyu, we still practice Dan and Kyu right along side it.

It does get confusing at times but it just makes one concentrate more.

Kevin


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