Screaming Into The Wind

[Moe Mensale]

In a recent "What's New" column, GEM pontificates about the recent forum debates concerning all the political BS in Uechiworld. He puts forth two main reasons as to the political bruhaha - Money and Rank (so what else is new?).

"Do away with all ranks over godan and take away the ego inflating mechanism afflicting many of our seniors both on Okinawa and outside Okinawa."

Soooo, George wants to revert back to the way it was. Hmmmmm.... My understanding of the additional five dan ranks was that one day (in the 50s or 60s I believe) somebody noticed that there were 5th dans with a
couple of years in grade and 5th dans with a couple of decades in grade and everybody looked the same. Ta, Ta! Five new ranks and spiffy titles to boot!

Could it really work again? I seriously doubt whether anyone who came up under and knows nothing but the 10 rank system would be willing to give up something that they (hopefully) worked their butts off for, even if that meant the possible reunification of uechi.

The human ego is such a frail and at the same time such an overpowering entity that there would be those who would "break off" again and we could find ourselves in the same mess we are in now.

IF this could be pulled off, how would the rest of the martial arts world view the "new" uechi? (Oh, we are much better than them - they have only five black belt ranks, we have ten!) Or should we really care about how everyone else sees us or thinks about us?

I believe that there is a major style (judo, I think) that only awards up to 5th dan. If this is so, what types of problems do they encounter, if any? Are they looked down upon as inferior to the rest of the martial arts world due to their "lack" of ranks?

While uechi is not infected (for the most part) with an assortment of self proclaimed Grand Dans, like so many other styles are, reverting back to the days of old could hurt us more than help us.

Moe Mensale

ps - JD, I think your coveted "Junior Rokudan" is in jeopardy

[gmattson]

Moe:
I don't think the highest ranked individuals would really care whether they were referred to as a 10th dan or simply as 'Sensei'.

Taking something away from the younger teachers might be another story. Many still believe there is magic in those stripes.

Now the organizations might get upset if the godans refused to test(read pay) for more rank.

Since most of the politicing between students and Okinawa begins at the senior ratings, doing away with the ranks would eliminate the benefits of having multi organizations on Okinawa.

Before Igor was kicked off these forums for using aliases and for generally being a jerk, he posted a jab at me for saying the Okinawans were motivated by money. My editorial was focused on organizations and perhaps the people who control them. As individuals the Okinawans are wonderful people. But individuals don't make political decisions in Japan/Okinawa martial arts. Even Kanmei credits the Uechi-ryu Karate Association for decisions made concerning karate, even though he controls it.

Obviously rank and the fees associated with rank are not the only problem with unification. But it might be a beginning.

The only way to eliminate the main factor associated with foreigners jumping from teacher/organization to teacher/organization, is to do away with their incentives for playing musical teachers. RANK & the perceived POWER that goes with the rank!

Maybe I'm way off base, but if I'm a godan with an American teacher, and I'm visiting Okinawa and fall madly in love with the way Joe Shuriken does Sanchin, and I ask him to be my new teacher!

Joe Shuriken discovers that he has 10 Americans who have fallen madly in love with his Sanchin. Next thing you know, Sensei Shuriken is shoving rank at the students and issuing certificates from his newly formed organization.

If you take away the rank issuing incentive, Joe Shuriken can accept the students, but instead of issuing certificates from his own association, Joe will charge for lessons, seminars, travelling expenses, etc. BUT WILL REMAIN WITH HIS OLD ORGANIZATION!

Unfortunately, Joe will probably discover that since all he can provide is instruction, his newly found disciplies will quickly return to their original teachers.

Just a theory, but thats what this forum is all about. Maybe you have a better idea. Instead of throwing stones, contribute your wisdom.

Ask yourself why there are so many organizations on Okinawa, essentially performing the same kata and techniques. Yes, there are personal differences that will prevent certain individuals from toasting one another at parties, but what do you think really caused the serious problems that tore our style apart?


------------------
GEM

[Allen M.]

George! That WAS quite a radical post on What's New last week.

[JOHN THURSTON]

Moe, GEM et al:

I guess we are fortunate that we have not seen too much of "rank selling" in our system.

The three Shodans who labored for five years with me for last fall certainly don't think I "sold" them anything. I lost one Nidan who I would not put up for Sandan, however.

I think he will be in touch.

That being said, since I finally made Godan, I guess abolishing all ranks above that would be Ok-but who I am I fooling?

I still "pay" karate fees to my Senior, out of respect.

Personalities, of course, "ripped the system apart".

Sadly, as long as the ranks exist, if one gets to a certain point in a "system" and is not "promoted", one might just drop out and promote oneself.

I could never understand doing that, my ego is not sufficiently large, but it has been done.

The Kung fu and Tai Chi systems, traditionally, have only two or three rank distinctions: "student" "teacher" and "Master", but those systems are even more factionalized than are own. Nonetheless, I can tell who is who when I see them.

One cannot even walk into two Yang Tai Chi "Kwans" and expect to see any of the form done in the same sequence or with the same interpretations. I will admit that their essences seem to remain sort of intact regardless of the best efforts of the "factionalizationizers" thereof to screw things up.


Sorry I cannot be more constructive.

JOHN


------------------

[Robb in Sacramento]

Mr. Mattson:

You are in a better position to guage this, but there are probably fewer people "at the top" here in America than there are on Okinawa. Having had the privilege of meeting many of you, I doubt, given some the history you share amongst yourselves, that there is much chance for a unified voice coming from this continent.

Having said that, what I find wonderful about our style, is very few schools would ever turn away a student from another association or school. When it comes to training together, we generally seem to be able to follow Dr. X's advice. We can shut up and train. Is it odd that at a local level we all seem to be able to get along, but at a macro level there is no keeping us together. Maybe we are just too darn independent. Or, maybe the fractionalization is just normal evolution that will lead to both stronger and weaker versions of our art.

Great commentary however. I fear it just may be too late.

Peace
Robb in Sacramento

[JOHN THURSTON]

JD:

Well, I did not pass my (1st) Shodan test, but here I am, still struggling. Oh well.

At the time I was pretty put out, now, I don't feel I deserve the rank I have--but ---that's not uncommon either.

Robb:

I certainly feel a sadness and a certain sense of inevitably regarding the fracturing of the one family system. I still hope there is room for some damage control.

JOHN

------------------

[gmattson]

As Al pointed out, my 'whatsnew' editorial was quite harsh. It was meant to be. As seniors, both in and out of Okinawa, we have acted badly and selfishly.

I elected to point a finger at all our organizations. . . the one I'm with as well. . . not individuals. In spite of the strong words, my overall goal was to begin a dialog at the grass roots level, where a discussion can take place. Change will not begin from the top!

The seniors walk around with huge egos and heavy back packs, carrying the real and imagined slights of the past, preventing any talks of reconciliation from taking place.

My Susan does not study martial arts. She is, however, friends with just about everyone, even those who I would prefer not to be in the same country with. It was Susan who first pointed out that all of our problems can generally be reduced to the almighty dollar/Yen.

There are a number of issues to deal with before any reconciliation can be discussed:

1. Return emphasis back to the style.
2. De-emphasize rank.
3. Do away with "Okinawan Religion" [The belief that unless you are Okinawan, you cannot really know Uechi-ryu.
4. Return to the principle that one's teacher is the person who is actually your teacher! Not someone you see once a year to party with and have your annual picture taken.
5. Ranks up to 5th dan must be earned. Time in grade must be accumulated in a teacher's dojo, actually working out.
6. Ranks over 5th dan (if they must exist)should be issued by a single organization. The rank must be approved by the student's actual teacher and not by the student's adopted Okinawan contact.
7. Ranks should not be used to raise money for teachers or organizations. A minimum fee, enough to cover the administrative cost of preparing the certificate and mailing.
8. A single organization in every country, consisting of all legitimate Uechi seniors, should be in charge of all dan promotions.
9. A single organization on Okinawa should issue the certificates.
10. If you want to have your rank respected, support a public registry system, where lineage of every black belt is carefully and thoroughly researched. You might be surprised at how many phony, very high ranking dan certificates are floating around. We should document this information now, before it is lost. We should expose the phony 'masters' now, while the information exists and the seniors are alive to document the facts. Why have the rank if it doesn't have any meaning?

If interested, lets discuss each item with the focus on how we can affect positive change. And please remember. . . change will not start at the top! Rather, think of it as a revolution. A revolution affecting our Uechi-ryu!

And yes, you can smugly sit back saying "I'm too pure in heart and spirit to dirty my hands with this. . . I'll just sit back and let someone else fix it."

To this I say: "you will deserve what you get!"


------------------
GEM

[Moe Mensale]

George,

Allow me to apologize if you thought I was in any way casting stones - I wasn't. You posted a very telling commentary and asked for our opinions - you got mine, for what it's worth.

Whatever wisdom I can contribute is minor compared to the vast amount of knowledge that resides with the regulars, and the lurkers, of this forum. So, where are they? Money and Rank affects all of us, so I expect to see a hell of a lot more input than what has already come forth.

For us small fry, who are busting our humps in anticipation of that next coveted rank, the issue is kind of moot, because there is nothing to give up. But what about all you 6th, 7th & 8th dans out there - are you really willing and able to give up what you worked so hard and diligently for? I don't think so!

Personally, I like the concept of the "High Five." For the most part, it shows a dedication on the part of the individual and what he has accomplished with his life. To just "hang around" for 25-30 years in something in order to get a gold stripe or two is really assinine (not to mention a great waste of time).

The public registry is a great idea, not just for us as teachers and students, but because something like this is going to be necessary some day when some state or national spotlight wannabe decides to regulate the martial arts for the "good of humanity."

But, has anybody taken the time to sign up on GEM's registry or even to look at it? Hey, there's a hell of a lot more practitioners out there than are listed here. And I am guilty myself for not being on it - a situation that will soon be rectified.

I am in total agreement with your ten points and, yes, you are right, change will not come from the top, although unless all you S-S-Ss are dead, it would be nice to hear from you cause youse guys ARE still in charge.

HEY, IS ANYBODY OUT THERE??

Moe Mensale

[Bill Glasheen]

I have such mixed feelings on this subject. I've always felt it important to live by standards, but have never quite understood how to deal with those who don't. I can live with what I have earned in life, but am sometimes embarrassed to admit (flaunt) my titles. My 6-year-old students called me "Bill" for the longest time. Occasionally now I get "sensei Bill". It seems that the parents want that (even expect it). At work I am referred to as "Bill". I only use the "doctor" title as introduction to a roomful of angry physicians who want to play status games with me. I'll see your title and raise you. Now...let's cut the crap and get to work.

I don't eschew achievement or recognition of such. I eschew the trappings. They miss the point.

I don't have all the answers and I don't know how I feel about all these issues. But I think George has made good points. My only recommendation is to go far from martial arts and perhaps towards accrediting bodies in other organizations (like, for example, academia or the board certification process in medicine) to look for direction. To the extent that a title or license is useful (as it is in medicine or in other fields where professional certification is important) then it should be retained. But save the marketing B.S. and the ego gratification. I'd rather let you have the 10th dan; I need the practice.

-- Bill

[gmattson]

Moe: I thank you for contributing and helping to focus on the issues at hand. I re-read my post, but could not find any reference to your throwing stones or anything else critical of any individual. (except perhaps those who sit on their hands waiting for the ax to fall)

As we speak, five states are quietly pushing laws through that will strictly regulate the martial arts. Don't be surprised if Billy Blanks will be issuing your dojo it's certification in a few years.

------------------
GEM

[Moe Mensale]

UECHI-BO!!!! Son of a bitch!

Unfortunately, but true, the Billy Blanks and Joon Rhees of the world could very well be defining WHAT and HOW we teach if we don't come together as a unified force to be reckoned with. After all, that is what they have done - present a solid, unified front for their particular styles to the power brokers.

So, why shouldn't we? After all, the squeeky wheel gets the grease - yes?

Moe Mensale

[Robb in Sacramento]

Mr. Mattson, et al.

Uechi-BO. I can recall a group of California Uechi students sipping beers in San Jose and joking about how some day aerobics and karate would come together in the ultimate martial arts exercise. Apparently, we missed the marketing idea of this year.

Thank you for offering your plan. I appreciate you stepping out to the forefront. I disagree with you, however, on the role of the folks at the top. You and others command considerable respect. While I don't believe there was ever a time in this country after more than a handful of Uechi folks returned from Okinawa, that there was ever a cohesive organization that included everyone, or for that matter that on Okinawa there was total cohesion, the fractionalization we have experienced is still relatively new. Unlike many other styles, we all continue to the do the same kata pretty much the same way. And, there are still only a few folks in American Uechi with the years and prestige that could actually pull an organization together.

There is presently more that binds us together than issues that push us apart. But, as time passes, and more people become Master Shoken, and demand a place at the head table, the opportunity for any type of unity will diminish.

In the interim, I will continue to workout with my favorite partner from the other organization, and we will continue to ignore that we don't belong to the same Uechi organization. I will also continue to train with instructors from branches of Uechi that left the system long ago, and be grateful for the knowledge shared.

Thanks for providing this forum. Thanks for jumping out in front.

Peace
Robb in Sacramento

[Gary Santaniello]

All the focus here seems to be on rank and money. I do not believe that going back to a 5dan system in uechiryu will change the problems that exsist, nor do i see reunification as one organization taking place. After all, egos and personalities are human factors that we can not ignore as though they do not exsist. Excuse my boldness here but many of the same problems would still exsist, only at lower dan levels. Would not some of you agree? Do not missunderstand me here, I would not have an objection if things went back to how they once were. I was a part of N.A.U.K.A before it seperated many years ago. Certainly sensei George Mattsons intentions here are respected in his attempt to preserve Uechi-Ryu Karate-Do in the years to come. I just think that the "competitive" way of life that our society has nurtured many of us to believe in, somehow will win over "The Way" that we should understand through our trainning. Okinawan religion? Surely we have had many respectable Americans over the years show are abilties to succeed in our development of uechi-ryu.
One Teacher? Yes, we should all have "one" individual instructor whom we primarily study under. Certainly other instructors veiws and opinions should be accepted. Surely one whom never is working out other than his own teaching can fall into some bad habits. Phony "Masters" of uechiryu? Undocumented certificates of master ranks? Would be interesting if nothing else. Surely i know my roots of where my art came from. I also believe that rank should be earned, not given or purchased. As John T. mentioned "three shodans waited 5 years of hard work to earn their rank". Glad to hear it! I have a couple of 5 year students still waitting. We as insructors need to maintain the quality of what we produce at least to the maximum efficiency of each student! I have yet to see a Senior rank over 5th dan post his willngness to give up his rank. I would not care to give up my 5th to say i am now a 3rd dan who was a 5th? It's a double edge sword i believe. Be it as it may. Need i not continue to pay fees and test further i would just continue to teach, practice and enjoy "the way."

------------------



Gary S.


Gary S