Why is it that Traditional Karate doesn't even address ground fighting? Do you believe that you are SO good that you will never end up on the ground? Remember Fred Ettish from the UFC????
[This message has been edited by Lone Wolf (edited April 08, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Lone Wolf (edited April 08, 2000).]
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Moderator: Available
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Lone Wolf: "Why dosen't traditional karate address ground fighting?"
First what do you mean by traditional karate?
Each Okinawan system has different approaches to their art, and in some there are definate grounding techniques.
In my own system, Isshinryu, the traditional basics begin with the beginner learning to kick off of the ground.
Likewise the application of many kata techniques involves locking and downing your opponent.
As for a 'wrestling' component, it may well be because Okinawa already had a rich 'tegumi' or grappling tradition of their own. It is possible the Okinawan's cross trained.
Consider reading the recent translation of Shoshin Nagamine's "Tales of Okinawa's Great Masters" published by Tuttle. This text goes into Okinawa's grappling tradition.
On the other hand, those arts developed in Japan followed a different standard. Of course Japan already had a strong Judo tradition at that time and most Japanese Karateka had already studied Judo in School.
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Victor Smith
First what do you mean by traditional karate?
Each Okinawan system has different approaches to their art, and in some there are definate grounding techniques.
In my own system, Isshinryu, the traditional basics begin with the beginner learning to kick off of the ground.
Likewise the application of many kata techniques involves locking and downing your opponent.
As for a 'wrestling' component, it may well be because Okinawa already had a rich 'tegumi' or grappling tradition of their own. It is possible the Okinawan's cross trained.
Consider reading the recent translation of Shoshin Nagamine's "Tales of Okinawa's Great Masters" published by Tuttle. This text goes into Okinawa's grappling tradition.
On the other hand, those arts developed in Japan followed a different standard. Of course Japan already had a strong Judo tradition at that time and most Japanese Karateka had already studied Judo in School.
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Victor Smith
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Joseph Bellone
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: MA, USA
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Lone Wolf,
Let's keep things in perspective. Traditionally, fighting arts were developed for the battlefield. That means simply, if you went down to the ground someone was going to spear you, stab you, run over you or have a chariot or horse run over you.
Let's think about things historically and then question why these events happened. In the West, you have arts like Greco-Roman, the Middle Eastern and Slavic influences of wrestling. All these arts favor clinching, and eventually throwing. In Greco-Roman you do have Par Terre as part of the sport, but it's a relatively small part because if you went to the ground, you were basically done in the melee.
In the East, you have Indian wrestling, Shuai Jiao (probably the oldest form of Kung Fu) and eventually the great art of Judo (forming from different schools of Jiu-Jitsu). All these schools emphasis throwing over groundsubmission. Why? Because of the same reason stated earlier. It wasn't until the popularity of Challenge matches (one on one) after the Meiji restoration in Japan (first on 1886) that Judo (and some other Jiu-Jitsu schools) emphasised Ne-waza.
Karate, my friend, developed on the island of Okinawa.
Historically, this is the reason.
Now, I saw Fred Ettish lose to Johnny Rhodes in the UFC II match. But, here's the bottom line, he had the balls to get in the Octagon.
I have one question to you, (and I already know the answer because guys that do step up don't talk smack about someone losing because they know it might be them someday)
Do you have enough guts to step up and get your ass kicked like Fred Ettish did?
Renzo (Gracie) said to us one time that he prays every night. He doesn't pray for victory, he said. He prays when the time comes (and he knows it eventually will) that he'll take his beating like a man. Think about it.
Joe
Let's keep things in perspective. Traditionally, fighting arts were developed for the battlefield. That means simply, if you went down to the ground someone was going to spear you, stab you, run over you or have a chariot or horse run over you.
Let's think about things historically and then question why these events happened. In the West, you have arts like Greco-Roman, the Middle Eastern and Slavic influences of wrestling. All these arts favor clinching, and eventually throwing. In Greco-Roman you do have Par Terre as part of the sport, but it's a relatively small part because if you went to the ground, you were basically done in the melee.
In the East, you have Indian wrestling, Shuai Jiao (probably the oldest form of Kung Fu) and eventually the great art of Judo (forming from different schools of Jiu-Jitsu). All these schools emphasis throwing over groundsubmission. Why? Because of the same reason stated earlier. It wasn't until the popularity of Challenge matches (one on one) after the Meiji restoration in Japan (first on 1886) that Judo (and some other Jiu-Jitsu schools) emphasised Ne-waza.
Karate, my friend, developed on the island of Okinawa.
Historically, this is the reason.
Now, I saw Fred Ettish lose to Johnny Rhodes in the UFC II match. But, here's the bottom line, he had the balls to get in the Octagon.
I have one question to you, (and I already know the answer because guys that do step up don't talk smack about someone losing because they know it might be them someday)
Do you have enough guts to step up and get your ass kicked like Fred Ettish did?
Renzo (Gracie) said to us one time that he prays every night. He doesn't pray for victory, he said. He prays when the time comes (and he knows it eventually will) that he'll take his beating like a man. Think about it.
Joe
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Bill Glasheen
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Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Lone Wolf
It appears from your post (and the title) that you have a preconceived notion about "traditional karate" (whatever that is), and know little or nothing about Uechi ryu. But you could always hang around and share/learn, that is if that's your intention.
You might like to know that I get no end of grief for spending most of my time in a dark green gi. This "self defense" gi from KWON was especially made (color and reinforcement) so one could grind around on the floor and not worry about dirtying the gi (or ripping the attire). So in my case, I can't relate to your question.
- Bill
It appears from your post (and the title) that you have a preconceived notion about "traditional karate" (whatever that is), and know little or nothing about Uechi ryu. But you could always hang around and share/learn, that is if that's your intention.
You might like to know that I get no end of grief for spending most of my time in a dark green gi. This "self defense" gi from KWON was especially made (color and reinforcement) so one could grind around on the floor and not worry about dirtying the gi (or ripping the attire). So in my case, I can't relate to your question.
- Bill
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Ok Joe,
You onviously misunderstood my post. SECTION DELETED I wasn't knocking Fred Ettish. I respect him for competing. But the fact is he got his Ass whipped by another NONGRAPPLER is what I think is funny. If he would have fought a grappler it would have been over for him MUCH quicker.
1. His stand-up skills were ineffective. One punch one kill ring a bell. Johnny Rhodes used Boxing COMBINATIONS to put Fred on his ass.
2. NO ground skills what so ever. Traditional stylist who felt that stand up skills were all that was needed. He was wrong on both accounts. His stand up couldn't match up with a boxer. ( Have you ever sparred a boxer? ) and while on the ground all he could do was bleed. He must be a hero of yours the way that you defend him. I respect Fred Ettish for putting it on the line. But I don't respect his skill PHRASE DELETED
Also," Renzo ( Gracie ) said to us one time..."
Damn, I didn't realize that Renzo was talking to you.
That was an interview and he was talking about Tito Ortiz. If your going to quote someone at least give some background info on the subject matter.
I don't subscribe to Renzo's ideology. I don't pray for a beating. Self defense is about self protection not self abuse. I know he was talking about fighting. But if he wants to LOSE all he has to do is fight Vochanchin.
Bill,
Isshin ryu, Shuri ryu, Shotokan. Karate is Karate is Karate. They all respond to a grappler the same way. Kick or punch him.
SECTION DELETED
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited April 11, 2000).]
You onviously misunderstood my post. SECTION DELETED I wasn't knocking Fred Ettish. I respect him for competing. But the fact is he got his Ass whipped by another NONGRAPPLER is what I think is funny. If he would have fought a grappler it would have been over for him MUCH quicker.
1. His stand-up skills were ineffective. One punch one kill ring a bell. Johnny Rhodes used Boxing COMBINATIONS to put Fred on his ass.
2. NO ground skills what so ever. Traditional stylist who felt that stand up skills were all that was needed. He was wrong on both accounts. His stand up couldn't match up with a boxer. ( Have you ever sparred a boxer? ) and while on the ground all he could do was bleed. He must be a hero of yours the way that you defend him. I respect Fred Ettish for putting it on the line. But I don't respect his skill PHRASE DELETED
Also," Renzo ( Gracie ) said to us one time..."
Damn, I didn't realize that Renzo was talking to you.
That was an interview and he was talking about Tito Ortiz. If your going to quote someone at least give some background info on the subject matter.
I don't subscribe to Renzo's ideology. I don't pray for a beating. Self defense is about self protection not self abuse. I know he was talking about fighting. But if he wants to LOSE all he has to do is fight Vochanchin.
Bill,
Isshin ryu, Shuri ryu, Shotokan. Karate is Karate is Karate. They all respond to a grappler the same way. Kick or punch him.
SECTION DELETED
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited April 11, 2000).]
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Gene DeMambro
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- Location: Weymouth, MA US of A
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
I saw Sensei Ikeo Higuchi (8th Dan Hanshi-Shotokan) do Unnshu kata with 2 ground defense moves and a spinning kick/takedown. Traditional karate? Yes. Ground defense, yes again. Look at Uechi Seichin, Seisan and Sanseiryu. All have good throws.
Get a chance and watch some advanced bunkai from Mike Murphy, Bill Glasheen and Bob Campbell, and you will see good ground applications in Uechi.
Will whoever be so good that they can protect their eyes and testicles after they throw me? It's real easy to yank an ear. If I do get thrown and someone is on top of me, forget elbow locks and whatever. I'm going for blood, and we'll deal with the police after.
Every year I earmark $100 for a new gi to replace the one I spend three days in, rolling around the dirt at Mass. Maritime at Uechi Camp. So about SECTION DELETED not wanting to get your gi dirty...
ANATOMIC REFERENCE DELETED
Gene
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited April 11, 2000).]
Get a chance and watch some advanced bunkai from Mike Murphy, Bill Glasheen and Bob Campbell, and you will see good ground applications in Uechi.
Will whoever be so good that they can protect their eyes and testicles after they throw me? It's real easy to yank an ear. If I do get thrown and someone is on top of me, forget elbow locks and whatever. I'm going for blood, and we'll deal with the police after.
Every year I earmark $100 for a new gi to replace the one I spend three days in, rolling around the dirt at Mass. Maritime at Uechi Camp. So about SECTION DELETED not wanting to get your gi dirty...
ANATOMIC REFERENCE DELETED
Gene
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited April 11, 2000).]
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Gene,
Your a funny guy with No obvious experience in ANY grappling or throwing art. Let me let you in on a secret, when you get thrown by someone who really knows how, not some Karateka, You will not get up! If you are close enough to grab my ear or eye poke me then guess what? I'm close enough to do the same to you. But I will have you in a BAD position, pinning you down so that you cannot escape. Then as you try to rip my ear, I will rip yours only slower amd there will be NO WHERE for you to go. You will be pinned after I slam you on the Concrete and fall on top of you.
Not a pretty picture is it. My only point is that I would like for all Karateka to honestly evaluate the merits of throwing and grappling. Learning a few throws from a Karateka is like learning how to punch from a Judoka. Understand what I mean here?
I hope that I did not come off as too brutal or rude above, I just wanted to illustrate my point.
Your a funny guy with No obvious experience in ANY grappling or throwing art. Let me let you in on a secret, when you get thrown by someone who really knows how, not some Karateka, You will not get up! If you are close enough to grab my ear or eye poke me then guess what? I'm close enough to do the same to you. But I will have you in a BAD position, pinning you down so that you cannot escape. Then as you try to rip my ear, I will rip yours only slower amd there will be NO WHERE for you to go. You will be pinned after I slam you on the Concrete and fall on top of you.
Not a pretty picture is it. My only point is that I would like for all Karateka to honestly evaluate the merits of throwing and grappling. Learning a few throws from a Karateka is like learning how to punch from a Judoka. Understand what I mean here?
I hope that I did not come off as too brutal or rude above, I just wanted to illustrate my point.
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mikemurphy
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
- Contact:
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Lone Wolf,
I have been reading your posts with some interest and it seems that you think everyone does not know what you are saying. On the contrary, I think everyone knows exactly what you're saying.
There are many things I would disagree with you on. The first is that "karate is karate is karate" statement. Have a look around at the various Okinawan karate and the various Japanese karate and tell me if you don't see some differences. I do.
Most importantly is your commment about being thrown by people who "really know how to throw." Let me tell you that most of the people who have responded to this thread have been thrown by some of the most renown judoka and jujitsuka in the world and know the wonderful experience that is. So please don't throw accusations around that people don't know what they are talking about.
As for an experienced "thrower" having the advantage after the throw...maybe, but there are so many factors to throwing and such, you certainly can not make that statement in truth. How can you tell the fight before it is fought? You can't. I have been tossed by people ten times better than I and have ended up on the better side of the pile several times. Does that mean they ******, or am I just that good? What it means is that we are human and no one can foretell everything that is going to happen.
If you truly know as much about this subject as implied then let's write about it with a little budo in mind. Shall we?
Yours in budo,
mike
I have been reading your posts with some interest and it seems that you think everyone does not know what you are saying. On the contrary, I think everyone knows exactly what you're saying.
There are many things I would disagree with you on. The first is that "karate is karate is karate" statement. Have a look around at the various Okinawan karate and the various Japanese karate and tell me if you don't see some differences. I do.
Most importantly is your commment about being thrown by people who "really know how to throw." Let me tell you that most of the people who have responded to this thread have been thrown by some of the most renown judoka and jujitsuka in the world and know the wonderful experience that is. So please don't throw accusations around that people don't know what they are talking about.
As for an experienced "thrower" having the advantage after the throw...maybe, but there are so many factors to throwing and such, you certainly can not make that statement in truth. How can you tell the fight before it is fought? You can't. I have been tossed by people ten times better than I and have ended up on the better side of the pile several times. Does that mean they ******, or am I just that good? What it means is that we are human and no one can foretell everything that is going to happen.
If you truly know as much about this subject as implied then let's write about it with a little budo in mind. Shall we?
Yours in budo,
mike
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Ok - back to civility. Ground fighting skills are necessary, just as punching and kicking skills are necessary. Remember the four ranges of fighting? Kicking, Punching, Trapping & Grappling?
Therefore, to be a complete fighter,
cross-training is essential - assuming that your goal is to become the complete fighter.
And let's not forget that almost as many of the UFC champions were college wrestlers as they were Brazilian jiu-jitsu specialists. I'm not certain how many have been from Sambo, Shootfighting, etc. The point is that even Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is not a complete fighting system. However, that doesn't stop me from studying it - as an ex-wrestler, I like the one on one competition.
Finally, if my memory serves me well, Gene D. trains in nihon jiu-jitsu.
Therefore, to be a complete fighter,
cross-training is essential - assuming that your goal is to become the complete fighter.
And let's not forget that almost as many of the UFC champions were college wrestlers as they were Brazilian jiu-jitsu specialists. I'm not certain how many have been from Sambo, Shootfighting, etc. The point is that even Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is not a complete fighting system. However, that doesn't stop me from studying it - as an ex-wrestler, I like the one on one competition.
Finally, if my memory serves me well, Gene D. trains in nihon jiu-jitsu.
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J. Bellone
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 6:01 am
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Lone Wolf,
Renzo is Roberto Maia's cousin. I have the privledge of belonging to the Gracie Barra organization, as Robson (Renzo's father) just recently promoted Roberto to his next degree of blackbelt upon his return from Brazil in January. We, in Boston, have the luxury of having the opportunity of training with Renzo, whether we go to his Academy in NY or he's in town visiting Roberto. Renzo is a very articulate man who's stated his personal philosophy of fighting many times, I'm sure in many different contexts. I will also have the luxury of hanging with his guys at the Pan Am's this week in Kissimmee, FL. I've competed with and against Renzo's guys. I just lost to Danny Ives in Feb.
If you care to use your real name, I can tell Renzo on Thursday that all he has to do is fight Vochanchin from you.
Of course, my question is still rather simple, as it's easy sometimes to not actually fight, what fights have you fought in?
Good luck with your training.
Sincerely,
Joe
Renzo is Roberto Maia's cousin. I have the privledge of belonging to the Gracie Barra organization, as Robson (Renzo's father) just recently promoted Roberto to his next degree of blackbelt upon his return from Brazil in January. We, in Boston, have the luxury of having the opportunity of training with Renzo, whether we go to his Academy in NY or he's in town visiting Roberto. Renzo is a very articulate man who's stated his personal philosophy of fighting many times, I'm sure in many different contexts. I will also have the luxury of hanging with his guys at the Pan Am's this week in Kissimmee, FL. I've competed with and against Renzo's guys. I just lost to Danny Ives in Feb.
If you care to use your real name, I can tell Renzo on Thursday that all he has to do is fight Vochanchin from you.
Of course, my question is still rather simple, as it's easy sometimes to not actually fight, what fights have you fought in?
Good luck with your training.
Sincerely,
Joe
-
mikemurphy
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Randolph, MA USA 781-963-8891
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Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Billy,
Personally, I don't look at Uechi and see throwing and grappling. I guess I just don't look that deep; however, in bunkai, I do like to take the technique a step further. I think that the techniques we find in kata don't necessarily show us grappling or takedown techniques, but they certainly can lead you in to many different techniques that involve kensetsu and osae waza
As for the kata in Judo, you are right. They are two man sets. Remember, kata is simply formalized exercise designed as some would say have us remember our techniques. It doesn't matter how many people are involved. In my jujitsu style, all of our kata are two man sets too.
Sparring or randori with a judoka is always a positive experience. They are amazing. I have a student who is a brown belt in judo as well as a Nidan in jujitsu and he is awsome. I hope I can get healthy enough to begin "playing" with him again. He has taught me a lot about fighting.
I think there is an advantage in knowing an empty hand are as well as a grappling art. I don't think the philosophies conflict so much. I would also consider a kobudo art too. I don't know if I have such an advantage or disadvantage when sparring Uechi people. I think it only shows when the situation presents itself. For example, you are sparring and you get caught up in a clench. Do you resort to nage waza then? The thought does cross my mind. Then again, if you are up against a Gary Khoury, chances are you never get that close (and he knows it too) :-)
Hope that helps,
Mike
PS Good talk sensei Bill
Personally, I don't look at Uechi and see throwing and grappling. I guess I just don't look that deep; however, in bunkai, I do like to take the technique a step further. I think that the techniques we find in kata don't necessarily show us grappling or takedown techniques, but they certainly can lead you in to many different techniques that involve kensetsu and osae waza
As for the kata in Judo, you are right. They are two man sets. Remember, kata is simply formalized exercise designed as some would say have us remember our techniques. It doesn't matter how many people are involved. In my jujitsu style, all of our kata are two man sets too.
Sparring or randori with a judoka is always a positive experience. They are amazing. I have a student who is a brown belt in judo as well as a Nidan in jujitsu and he is awsome. I hope I can get healthy enough to begin "playing" with him again. He has taught me a lot about fighting.
I think there is an advantage in knowing an empty hand are as well as a grappling art. I don't think the philosophies conflict so much. I would also consider a kobudo art too. I don't know if I have such an advantage or disadvantage when sparring Uechi people. I think it only shows when the situation presents itself. For example, you are sparring and you get caught up in a clench. Do you resort to nage waza then? The thought does cross my mind. Then again, if you are up against a Gary Khoury, chances are you never get that close (and he knows it too) :-)
Hope that helps,
Mike
PS Good talk sensei Bill
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Mike-Sensei,
Thanks, yes it helps. Hope whatever your illness is goes away soon! Injuries can be really frustrating, don't let it get you down.
How about the two handed circular movements combined with the rising knee, towards the end of Sanseirui kata, in Seirui kata, and the variants of this technique in Seichin kata? On "JUDOINFO.COM" there is an mpeg of the "President"(not sure what that means) from Russia doing throw/sweep that looks exactly like this movement to me. Its the very first mpeg on the list. I'm sure you are already familiar with the technique - looks pretty basic for a jujitsu guy. The more I think about it, I can't really see this as a striking technique at all!
BTW, you kind of confused me with the Japanese Jujitsu terms. I'm not that familiar. When sparring, and you go into a clinch - do you resort to jujitsu techniques? Yeah, it seems logical to me. What do YOU do? In my dojo we tend to "break" and go back to "sparring" distance. Not very realistic in my view. This whole concept of "looking deep" puzzles me. Its either there or it ain't. But it looks and feels to me like it MIGHT just be there. You and others have more experience though, and I bow to that.
Bill-Sensei,
Glad to see there are rules, and you are diligently policing the forum. Thanks. BTW, what are your thoughts on this issue Mr. Green Gis?
Paul C,
Great post man!
Thanks, yes it helps. Hope whatever your illness is goes away soon! Injuries can be really frustrating, don't let it get you down.
How about the two handed circular movements combined with the rising knee, towards the end of Sanseirui kata, in Seirui kata, and the variants of this technique in Seichin kata? On "JUDOINFO.COM" there is an mpeg of the "President"(not sure what that means) from Russia doing throw/sweep that looks exactly like this movement to me. Its the very first mpeg on the list. I'm sure you are already familiar with the technique - looks pretty basic for a jujitsu guy. The more I think about it, I can't really see this as a striking technique at all!
BTW, you kind of confused me with the Japanese Jujitsu terms. I'm not that familiar. When sparring, and you go into a clinch - do you resort to jujitsu techniques? Yeah, it seems logical to me. What do YOU do? In my dojo we tend to "break" and go back to "sparring" distance. Not very realistic in my view. This whole concept of "looking deep" puzzles me. Its either there or it ain't. But it looks and feels to me like it MIGHT just be there. You and others have more experience though, and I bow to that.
Bill-Sensei,
Glad to see there are rules, and you are diligently policing the forum. Thanks. BTW, what are your thoughts on this issue Mr. Green Gis?
Paul C,
Great post man!
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Unbelieveable,
Mr. Glasheen, I can't believe what you posted.
1. This is a public access forum. Just because I have a different opinion and a unique way of expressing it then you are going to censore me? This is NOT Fuedal Japan. This is AMERICA.
2. My post is the hottest topic right now. Why do you suppose that is?
3. I don't care who is related to Renzo. Renzo himself said, " Where Igor hits, the hair does not grow back"! Nuff said.
4. I never laughed off getting an Ear ripped off. Read my post again. Slower this time. I SAID that if you can rip my ear I can also rip yours, and I'll be in better position to do it.
5. " Back to civility", Aren't we talking about fighting here. Since when is fighting Civil???
6. I would NEVER study an ART who's creators tried to hide it's secrets from the very one's who would are interested in studying and learning it. Why is it that Karate has so many Hidden meanings? Why did the creators hide all the secrets from their students? And why would you want to learn from them? They obviously didn't mean for you to learn the REAL art!
Finally Mr Glasheen, If you want to "flush me down the cyber toilet" then so be it. If you do it will only demonstrate the control issues that you have. Are you always right? Incapable of accepting anothers opinion? YES MASTER!!! Get my drift here?
In Budo you are not suppose to allow yourself to be " MOVED ". You have.
Annoyance is an Emotion. You have been moved by an emotion.
Mr Glasheen Do as you will.
Mr. Glasheen, I can't believe what you posted.
1. This is a public access forum. Just because I have a different opinion and a unique way of expressing it then you are going to censore me? This is NOT Fuedal Japan. This is AMERICA.
2. My post is the hottest topic right now. Why do you suppose that is?
3. I don't care who is related to Renzo. Renzo himself said, " Where Igor hits, the hair does not grow back"! Nuff said.
4. I never laughed off getting an Ear ripped off. Read my post again. Slower this time. I SAID that if you can rip my ear I can also rip yours, and I'll be in better position to do it.
5. " Back to civility", Aren't we talking about fighting here. Since when is fighting Civil???
6. I would NEVER study an ART who's creators tried to hide it's secrets from the very one's who would are interested in studying and learning it. Why is it that Karate has so many Hidden meanings? Why did the creators hide all the secrets from their students? And why would you want to learn from them? They obviously didn't mean for you to learn the REAL art!
Finally Mr Glasheen, If you want to "flush me down the cyber toilet" then so be it. If you do it will only demonstrate the control issues that you have. Are you always right? Incapable of accepting anothers opinion? YES MASTER!!! Get my drift here?
In Budo you are not suppose to allow yourself to be " MOVED ". You have.
Annoyance is an Emotion. You have been moved by an emotion.
Mr Glasheen Do as you will.
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Lone Wolf - fighting is not civil. Public discourse is civil.
I encourage you to keep posting.
Best regards, Steve
I encourage you to keep posting.
Best regards, Steve
Don't want to get your Gi dirty?
Bill-Sensei,
If it counts for anything I vote for you to flush this boob down the toilet. (preferably a dirty one) Let him learn about respect elsewhere.
If it counts for anything I vote for you to flush this boob down the toilet. (preferably a dirty one) Let him learn about respect elsewhere.
