I guess with an attitude like that, you can give any kid a black belt.
....and talk about how his martial arts training was no good....
Crap I say! Nothing to do with the martial arts training is the subject of children wearing bbs.
I remember years ago, in order to get passage into dan ranks in Uechi-ryu you had to do it with blood and bruises, and many "o'**** -- what the hell am I doing this for"'s along the way.
The bottom line for kids today is the keyword "FUN!" So they can fun their way into the elite. Mosquitoes sting too, but the least wind blows them away.
I have given class to, er rather baby-sat, as many as 20 kiddy black belts in a class at the time, and as far as I am concerned, except for a few older, larger, stronger, serious, etc. bb teens, the rest is business hogwash!
------------------
Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org
[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited 04-06-99).]
Kids and Black Belts
Moderator: Available
-
Allen M.
Kids and Black Belts
BTW, it seems as if this forum has not been corrected to Daylight Savings time unless I started this an hour ago. TEST - time is now 3:23 AM
Kids and Black Belts
All,
After a bit of a rest for two weeks while my computer was throwing sparks around by apartment, I can once again share my enlightened two cents (I really need to get more sleep, I'm starting to sound like someone's editor!).
I think I commented on this one way back when, on one of the 'viewpoint surveys.' It was interesting to me that everything you mentioned, Lori, that you do in your dojo is virtually identical to what I did when teaching 'commercially' (i.e. regularly in my own dojo), in terms of fees, number of kyu ranks, etc. Great minds think alike?!
I fall on the side of both support for junior black belts, and 'traditionalism' (whatever that means). I have had children start with me at age 5 who studied assiduously and around age 10-11 were nikyu and ikkyu. As determined and serious as some of these students were, they were still children. The thought of saying to them "you will have to wait another five years before you can test for a black belt," strikes me as tremendously unfair to these kids. Imagine telling all but the most dedicated adult student "well, yes, you are ready to test for your black belt - but you need to wait five years!" Think they'll stick around?
Don't misunderstand me - I do not think the point is to either make a lot of money through the testing process (I never charged for any testing in my dojo - just the way I personally chose to do it), nor is it placating impatient students or driven parents. Nevertheless, let's remember what the point of the ranking system is in the first place (anyone?...) - in my opinion to give newer students a goal to strive for, and to give some modicum of a measure of expertise for practitioners of that style to measure one another by (please take it easy on the definition, folks...).
Utilizing this definition, it seems to me that in order for this to mean anything to a child (or an adult, for that matter), any rank needs to be difficult, but not impossible to attain. I maintain that the comparison should not be between adults and children, but between children and children. Nevertheless, Any child I promoted to ikkyu knew all of the required information for an adult shodan. They were sharp, talented, and dedicated. Go ahead, tell me they'll cheapen the system if they make junior shodan. But if we're going to begin pointing fingers at those who 'cheapen' our style by the rank they are wearing, many adults are going to have to get used to being pointed at...
Aren't you glad I got my computer fixed??
[This message has been edited by Greg (edited 04-06-99).]
After a bit of a rest for two weeks while my computer was throwing sparks around by apartment, I can once again share my enlightened two cents (I really need to get more sleep, I'm starting to sound like someone's editor!).
I think I commented on this one way back when, on one of the 'viewpoint surveys.' It was interesting to me that everything you mentioned, Lori, that you do in your dojo is virtually identical to what I did when teaching 'commercially' (i.e. regularly in my own dojo), in terms of fees, number of kyu ranks, etc. Great minds think alike?!
I fall on the side of both support for junior black belts, and 'traditionalism' (whatever that means). I have had children start with me at age 5 who studied assiduously and around age 10-11 were nikyu and ikkyu. As determined and serious as some of these students were, they were still children. The thought of saying to them "you will have to wait another five years before you can test for a black belt," strikes me as tremendously unfair to these kids. Imagine telling all but the most dedicated adult student "well, yes, you are ready to test for your black belt - but you need to wait five years!" Think they'll stick around?
Don't misunderstand me - I do not think the point is to either make a lot of money through the testing process (I never charged for any testing in my dojo - just the way I personally chose to do it), nor is it placating impatient students or driven parents. Nevertheless, let's remember what the point of the ranking system is in the first place (anyone?...) - in my opinion to give newer students a goal to strive for, and to give some modicum of a measure of expertise for practitioners of that style to measure one another by (please take it easy on the definition, folks...).
Utilizing this definition, it seems to me that in order for this to mean anything to a child (or an adult, for that matter), any rank needs to be difficult, but not impossible to attain. I maintain that the comparison should not be between adults and children, but between children and children. Nevertheless, Any child I promoted to ikkyu knew all of the required information for an adult shodan. They were sharp, talented, and dedicated. Go ahead, tell me they'll cheapen the system if they make junior shodan. But if we're going to begin pointing fingers at those who 'cheapen' our style by the rank they are wearing, many adults are going to have to get used to being pointed at...
Aren't you glad I got my computer fixed??
[This message has been edited by Greg (edited 04-06-99).]
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The Editor
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Seattle, Washington
Kids and Black Belts
Greg-san,
To whose Editor in particular did you refer?
Since measurement of manner and speech has been evoked allow me to lend my shilling or two.
I think some miss the mark. Are junior <U>brown</U> belts equivalent to adults? Is your very dedicated 5 year old green belt equivalent to an adult? I think we need to accept that, for once, the old guard had it correct the first time. Children are not miniture adults. Perhaps we need to promote slower. One of the reasons for "multicolor" belts is to give incentive to the wee ones. Most adults seem to survive on a 4 belt system: white, green, brown, black. You can add stripes if you or the students do not like waiting a long time between promotions.
With children you can keep them going with multiple colors and stripes. You can also be honest with them. A nine year old understands that while he is very skilled he is not yet physically equivalent to an adult. He should understand he has, therefore, the potention to be a very extraordinary adult.
J.D. was quite an exceptional guppy who went through all sorts of colors and stripes and then transitioned over into minnow. Indeed, he did not really learn to tie his gi pants correctly until he was firmly a Small Fry.
In contrast, the talented guppies, as they develop physically, will find, with encouragement, better and stronger ways to perform what they do well.
--J.D.
[This message has been edited by The Editor (edited 04-06-99).]
[This message has been edited by The Editor (edited 04-06-99).]
To whose Editor in particular did you refer?
Since measurement of manner and speech has been evoked allow me to lend my shilling or two.
I think some miss the mark. Are junior <U>brown</U> belts equivalent to adults? Is your very dedicated 5 year old green belt equivalent to an adult? I think we need to accept that, for once, the old guard had it correct the first time. Children are not miniture adults. Perhaps we need to promote slower. One of the reasons for "multicolor" belts is to give incentive to the wee ones. Most adults seem to survive on a 4 belt system: white, green, brown, black. You can add stripes if you or the students do not like waiting a long time between promotions.
With children you can keep them going with multiple colors and stripes. You can also be honest with them. A nine year old understands that while he is very skilled he is not yet physically equivalent to an adult. He should understand he has, therefore, the potention to be a very extraordinary adult.
J.D. was quite an exceptional guppy who went through all sorts of colors and stripes and then transitioned over into minnow. Indeed, he did not really learn to tie his gi pants correctly until he was firmly a Small Fry.
In contrast, the talented guppies, as they develop physically, will find, with encouragement, better and stronger ways to perform what they do well.
--J.D.
[This message has been edited by The Editor (edited 04-06-99).]
[This message has been edited by The Editor (edited 04-06-99).]
Kids and Black Belts
Dear Editor:
J.D. has learned to tie his gi pants? Please congratulate him for me. (meanwhile, I have learned how to make a smiley face appear in my post...)
Seriously, though - I think that my point is simply that while it is totally reasonable to expect a child to wait for a particular rank while giving him or her a sense of progress and movement, I also think that there is room for a "junior black belt."
If folks want to object to this on the grounds that it is bad for the young student, fine. I agree that telling a child that he or she is now a "black belt," and not distinguishing this in any way from an adult rank is a mistake in terms of helping the youngster to continue pushing him/herself to improve and train.
I think promotions for juniors need to be taken on a case by case basis. I have seen some very qualified juniors test for their "junior shodan" alongside the adults at recent dan tests, and this seems to work very well. This also minimizes the concerns raised about 'dojo promotions' that some have (rightly) raised.
In fact I have never sent a student up for a junior black belt. The one fifteen year old I sent before a test board passed - but the board then voted to grant him his adult rank, rather than retest him in five or six months. Nevertheless, I passed some of my students along to other instructors who I assume will send them up when they are ready - likely far short of the age when they can test for adult rank. I will proudly attend their tests when the time comes.
greg
J.D. has learned to tie his gi pants? Please congratulate him for me.
(meanwhile, I have learned how to make a smiley face appear in my post...)Seriously, though - I think that my point is simply that while it is totally reasonable to expect a child to wait for a particular rank while giving him or her a sense of progress and movement, I also think that there is room for a "junior black belt."
If folks want to object to this on the grounds that it is bad for the young student, fine. I agree that telling a child that he or she is now a "black belt," and not distinguishing this in any way from an adult rank is a mistake in terms of helping the youngster to continue pushing him/herself to improve and train.
I think promotions for juniors need to be taken on a case by case basis. I have seen some very qualified juniors test for their "junior shodan" alongside the adults at recent dan tests, and this seems to work very well. This also minimizes the concerns raised about 'dojo promotions' that some have (rightly) raised.
In fact I have never sent a student up for a junior black belt. The one fifteen year old I sent before a test board passed - but the board then voted to grant him his adult rank, rather than retest him in five or six months. Nevertheless, I passed some of my students along to other instructors who I assume will send them up when they are ready - likely far short of the age when they can test for adult rank. I will proudly attend their tests when the time comes.
greg
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Moe Mensale
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Boca Raton, FL
Kids and Black Belts
George & Allen,
I'll have to agree with Allen on this. Yes, George, MJ is correct when he says that we all come to the arts for different reasons.
BUT....The major problem young kids have today is that they (or maybe more rightly, their parents) look at everything as just something else to go play at for awhile, bring home some trophys, put another notch on the belt, and go off and find the next interesting, fun thing to do.
"Remember those words such as character, humility, responsibility and maturity? That is not learned by gathering a "required" number of classes under your belt. It only comes through the perseverance of time."
I think it is indeed the rare child that can even begin to comprehend these ideals that we strive so hard and diligently to teach and even learn for ourselves.
Moe Mensale
I'll have to agree with Allen on this. Yes, George, MJ is correct when he says that we all come to the arts for different reasons.
BUT....The major problem young kids have today is that they (or maybe more rightly, their parents) look at everything as just something else to go play at for awhile, bring home some trophys, put another notch on the belt, and go off and find the next interesting, fun thing to do.
"Remember those words such as character, humility, responsibility and maturity? That is not learned by gathering a "required" number of classes under your belt. It only comes through the perseverance of time."
I think it is indeed the rare child that can even begin to comprehend these ideals that we strive so hard and diligently to teach and even learn for ourselves.
Moe Mensale
Kids and Black Belts
My problem is not so much with junior dan ranks, because if a kid has earned it, then they've earned it. True, they are NOT the emotional equal of MOST adults, but I have no problem with a junior equivalent for dan ranks since, from what I've seen, they are very RARE.
My problem comes in with a few areas of one, how old should you even begin training a child in the martial arts, and two, really, really, young black belts.
Instances: I saw a 3 and 1/2 year old yellow belt. The boy could do a few kicks and a couple of punchs. However, let's face it, his form was LOUSY. I mean he had something that resembled the basic Okinawan/Japanese/Korean H-shaped kihon/kibon/tekki pattern, but he still couldn't remember which way to turn without prompting. And as far as sparring: he'd work with the teacher and he looked like a 3-year old trying to do karate. Then, the people at that particular school kept trying to get me to train my son who was about six months younger that kid and/or bring him in to class and start learning. Considering my son had already picked up a vicious roundhose kick just by spying on me and used it on an older child much to my HORROR I respectfully declined. Besides, I can't get him to sit still now that he's 4 for more than ten minutes, so I wonder how much a child can really learn, let alone be a black belt a FIVE. I'd be willing to bet that my kid is a little more typical of most toddlers: they can do a few gross motor moves, may be able to do a couple of kicks and MAYBE a punch, but really pull of a kata--forget it.
Another instance: I saw a small kid in a mall school actually doing some good karate. He had a good front kick/jab-reverse combination. Of course, that was ALL he could do. Now: does this kid really know any karate? A little. I'd suspect it's in his brain and will come out later on when his body has the coordination to pull it off.
Yet another instance--I'd been taught some things younger and had consciously forgotten them, then when taught as a teen or adult and wondered how I caught it so easily I remembered, oh yes, so and so showed me it way back when, but I didn't get it--such as the first time I got grab up high as an adult from behind by surprise in the jujitsu alley I POORLY did the proper escape. I wondered how I even had a clue what to do then later that day I remembered that I was my older brother's tackle dummy when he did judo for a brief stint as a kid--six year age difference.
Someone mentioned above what will make these kids with inflated rank wake up and realize what they learned is not real? I know what: an a** whippin on the playground. I remember I thought I knew karate because someone showed me the three levels of punching, the front kick, side kick, and horse stance. Then, after I told a Filipino kid I knew some karate he beat the crap out of me. Wounded pride and crying, I went to my brother who introduced me to the "way" of what I love to call "ghetto-ryu"--as in do whatever you can think of to win--grab, push, shove, bite, throw dirt, use a rock, sucker punch 'im, etc. The next time I fought the kid (he was a bullly) he came at me with the same pattern and I moved, grabbed his leg, and threw him into a trash can, knocked the trash can over and kicked the can while the boy was inside of it (Peyton Quinn would have been proud of me). After that I completely forgot about martial arts training at ALL, which I think was a mistake, since I'd probably be a lot further along now had I pestered my mother to take lessons. But hey, I was just a kid. Who knew, huh?
Now does that mean what I had learned, or that bully had learned, was not REAL just because it can't be pulled off by a tot or a first grader? NO. The stuff is still there, it just will have to be refined. Let me tell you, the first time I did a front kick and a side kick as a teen/adult, man they WORKED. Yet, I still think that a five year old black belt is 99.9% a farce unless you are looking at someone who is a prodigy.
This brings me to my question: how old is it REALISTIC to begin training a child? The Jaded Master I refered to in a previous thread on another forum months ago said he held off really training his son until the boy was seven. Now his son is 15, and can really fight. He's only been in one altercation and by all reports, used minimal force to protect himself. Whenever I see little kids in uniforms I can't help but feel like it's a little too early unless the kid is in grade school. Yet I get countered all of the time with "Yeah, but you could teach your son NOW", and "I started training at 4" and "I've been doing this stuff since I could walk". I also wonder if you really could teach someone how to do chinna while they are still sucking a pacifier, does the child have the JUDGEMENT to use it properly. Now if the kids would do some pressure points on Barney or the Teletubbies, then hey, I'd be all for it!
But seriously, I'm putting it out there to you all, as a parent, what is a good age to start training. REALLY. Let me know!
------------------
Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net
My problem comes in with a few areas of one, how old should you even begin training a child in the martial arts, and two, really, really, young black belts.
Instances: I saw a 3 and 1/2 year old yellow belt. The boy could do a few kicks and a couple of punchs. However, let's face it, his form was LOUSY. I mean he had something that resembled the basic Okinawan/Japanese/Korean H-shaped kihon/kibon/tekki pattern, but he still couldn't remember which way to turn without prompting. And as far as sparring: he'd work with the teacher and he looked like a 3-year old trying to do karate. Then, the people at that particular school kept trying to get me to train my son who was about six months younger that kid and/or bring him in to class and start learning. Considering my son had already picked up a vicious roundhose kick just by spying on me and used it on an older child much to my HORROR I respectfully declined. Besides, I can't get him to sit still now that he's 4 for more than ten minutes, so I wonder how much a child can really learn, let alone be a black belt a FIVE. I'd be willing to bet that my kid is a little more typical of most toddlers: they can do a few gross motor moves, may be able to do a couple of kicks and MAYBE a punch, but really pull of a kata--forget it.
Another instance: I saw a small kid in a mall school actually doing some good karate. He had a good front kick/jab-reverse combination. Of course, that was ALL he could do. Now: does this kid really know any karate? A little. I'd suspect it's in his brain and will come out later on when his body has the coordination to pull it off.
Yet another instance--I'd been taught some things younger and had consciously forgotten them, then when taught as a teen or adult and wondered how I caught it so easily I remembered, oh yes, so and so showed me it way back when, but I didn't get it--such as the first time I got grab up high as an adult from behind by surprise in the jujitsu alley I POORLY did the proper escape. I wondered how I even had a clue what to do then later that day I remembered that I was my older brother's tackle dummy when he did judo for a brief stint as a kid--six year age difference.
Someone mentioned above what will make these kids with inflated rank wake up and realize what they learned is not real? I know what: an a** whippin on the playground. I remember I thought I knew karate because someone showed me the three levels of punching, the front kick, side kick, and horse stance. Then, after I told a Filipino kid I knew some karate he beat the crap out of me. Wounded pride and crying, I went to my brother who introduced me to the "way" of what I love to call "ghetto-ryu"--as in do whatever you can think of to win--grab, push, shove, bite, throw dirt, use a rock, sucker punch 'im, etc. The next time I fought the kid (he was a bullly) he came at me with the same pattern and I moved, grabbed his leg, and threw him into a trash can, knocked the trash can over and kicked the can while the boy was inside of it (Peyton Quinn would have been proud of me). After that I completely forgot about martial arts training at ALL, which I think was a mistake, since I'd probably be a lot further along now had I pestered my mother to take lessons. But hey, I was just a kid. Who knew, huh?
Now does that mean what I had learned, or that bully had learned, was not REAL just because it can't be pulled off by a tot or a first grader? NO. The stuff is still there, it just will have to be refined. Let me tell you, the first time I did a front kick and a side kick as a teen/adult, man they WORKED. Yet, I still think that a five year old black belt is 99.9% a farce unless you are looking at someone who is a prodigy.
This brings me to my question: how old is it REALISTIC to begin training a child? The Jaded Master I refered to in a previous thread on another forum months ago said he held off really training his son until the boy was seven. Now his son is 15, and can really fight. He's only been in one altercation and by all reports, used minimal force to protect himself. Whenever I see little kids in uniforms I can't help but feel like it's a little too early unless the kid is in grade school. Yet I get countered all of the time with "Yeah, but you could teach your son NOW", and "I started training at 4" and "I've been doing this stuff since I could walk". I also wonder if you really could teach someone how to do chinna while they are still sucking a pacifier, does the child have the JUDGEMENT to use it properly. Now if the kids would do some pressure points on Barney or the Teletubbies, then hey, I'd be all for it!
But seriously, I'm putting it out there to you all, as a parent, what is a good age to start training. REALLY. Let me know!
------------------
Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net
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Kevin Mackie
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Kids and Black Belts
Cecil wrote..But seriously, I'm putting it out there to you all, as a parent, what is a good age to start training. REALLY. Let me know!
My son started when he was seven. (two years ago) For him, it was a good age, he had some physical ability and a reasonable attention span. Some of the 8 and 9 year olds I occassionally work with are an incredible distraction and in my opinion don't belong in the class.
The time to start ( and continue with) training is when the child can take direction and show aptitude for learning. This can range from after first grade to possibly never for some children. This is when they can actually learn. IMHO,before that it's simply structured playing without the sand and slides.
VTY
Kevin
My son started when he was seven. (two years ago) For him, it was a good age, he had some physical ability and a reasonable attention span. Some of the 8 and 9 year olds I occassionally work with are an incredible distraction and in my opinion don't belong in the class.
The time to start ( and continue with) training is when the child can take direction and show aptitude for learning. This can range from after first grade to possibly never for some children. This is when they can actually learn. IMHO,before that it's simply structured playing without the sand and slides.
VTY
Kevin
Kids and Black Belts
"The time to start ( and continue with) training is when the child can take direction and show aptitude for learning. This can range from after first grade to possibly never for some children"
In that case, then I know plenty of adults who aren't cut out for training as well!!!
Thanks for the tip. Seven seems to be the recommended magic number from the people I know who have a good chunk of experience in the martial arts.
My son has one kick and according to what I heard from his mother, some pretty good punches the last time some kid picked on him in day care. ONE thing I am GLAD about is that he actually feels BAD about fighting, as in he thinks it's wrong. I like that sentiment. Not to the point where you don't think you can't even DEFEND yourself, but a LITTLE guilt about it may help keep kids from killing each other.
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Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net
In that case, then I know plenty of adults who aren't cut out for training as well!!!
Thanks for the tip. Seven seems to be the recommended magic number from the people I know who have a good chunk of experience in the martial arts.
My son has one kick and according to what I heard from his mother, some pretty good punches the last time some kid picked on him in day care. ONE thing I am GLAD about is that he actually feels BAD about fighting, as in he thinks it's wrong. I like that sentiment. Not to the point where you don't think you can't even DEFEND yourself, but a LITTLE guilt about it may help keep kids from killing each other.
------------------
Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net
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Moe Mensale
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Boca Raton, FL
Kids and Black Belts
"My problem is not so much with junior dan ranks, because if a kid has earned it, then they've earned it. True, they are NOT the emotional equal of MOST adults, but I have no problem with a junior equivalent for dan ranks since, from what I've seen, they are very RARE."
Cecil - come ooooooonnn down!! I'll take you on a little tour of the TKD schools where the only thing that is rare is the instructor who doesn't ask for full payment up front!
Moe Mensale
Cecil - come ooooooonnn down!! I'll take you on a little tour of the TKD schools where the only thing that is rare is the instructor who doesn't ask for full payment up front!
Moe Mensale
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Allen M.
Kids and Black Belts
Hello All,
As a rule I don't teach children and will never ever recommend a boy under 18 for black belt from my dojo. If he ore his parents don't like it, they can go across the street to Tokyo Joe's.
This is MY personal feeling about MY students.
------------------
Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org
As a rule I don't teach children and will never ever recommend a boy under 18 for black belt from my dojo. If he ore his parents don't like it, they can go across the street to Tokyo Joe's.
This is MY personal feeling about MY students.
------------------
Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org
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Allen M.
Kids and Black Belts
C'mon, J.D. Rank is one of the most important things to a kid. They look forward to a new belt color and certificate every 2 months, and I think that is great.
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Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org
------------------
Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org
Kids and Black Belts
The question was posed:
"Who awards these things anyway?"
Just thought I'd mention that the only two "junior blackbelts" ever awarded in my dojo, were tested under a board consisting of Sensei Jack Sommers (7th dan) Sensei Hideko Thompson, Sensei John Bassett (6th dan), Sensei Peggy Hess (5th dan), and a couple more yandans of various associations (multi-organizational test board)
Each candidate had to endure the same rigors as the adult shodan candidates.
The fees paid went to the travelling expenses of the visiting senseis.
Signed,
Lori aka an evil money grubbing dojo manager
"Who awards these things anyway?"
Just thought I'd mention that the only two "junior blackbelts" ever awarded in my dojo, were tested under a board consisting of Sensei Jack Sommers (7th dan) Sensei Hideko Thompson, Sensei John Bassett (6th dan), Sensei Peggy Hess (5th dan), and a couple more yandans of various associations (multi-organizational test board)
Each candidate had to endure the same rigors as the adult shodan candidates.
The fees paid went to the travelling expenses of the visiting senseis.
Signed,
Lori aka an evil money grubbing dojo manager
Kids and Black Belts
Okay Moe, you've got me on that one. That's why I train in an organization that works through Park & Rec!
------------------
Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net
------------------
Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net
Kids and Black Belts
Change o' heart:
Talked to my nephew after going to a tournament (more about the tournament later). He told me there was a TKD one nearby. I asked him why he isn't training anymore since every time I've seen him for the past six years he's talking about martial arts or wrestling or snooping around for pressure points. He had the following story:
He got 3rd in a kids tournament when he was 7 or 8 years old. He was a yellow belt (8th or 7th gup). They MADE him fight brown and black belts. He said he didn't want to do it because he was afraid; after all, they were brown and black belts, right, and he was a beginner? The black belt and brown belt kids were the same size, same build, same age, etc.
Turns out he kicks BOTH of their butts, ROYALLY. Yet do to politics and whimpering the other two kids end up placing hirer than he did. There were points not called that he scores and points called by his opponents that he blocks, ducks, or slips. He said that the kid with the black belt was awful, even by little kid standards. He even told me at one point the kid punched him in the face as hard as he could, so in turn, he kicked the boy in the stomach and the boy started crying. Of course I believe him because I've been similarly dogged myself in the past and present (especially the present). He gets scolded for excessive contact and not the senior belt--it's okay for the senior belt to lose his temper but not the kohai! (I had to knock a teenager back a few feet who was trying to rumble with me in the tournament I was in--he was mad because he was not scoring, and he is 1st brown--the rank before 1st Dan, so he outranks me--he's lucky I nailed him in the chest out of restraint instead of in the chin, which he left WIDE OPEN.) I encouraged him to go back if he really likes doing it, ignore trophies, and be glad that he can at least fight. I also told him to get the Jaded Master to train him or the Jaded Master's son, or let me train him when I feel that I'm ready.
Why I mention this is simple: why is a black belt being beaten up by a yellow belt, even if they are kids? Not because the beginner lacked control on a luck shot, but because the black belt can't spar? And why in the hell is a black belt kid CRYING because he gets kicked in the stomach after he had punched someone in the face? He's not the only person that has told me a similar story.
So I must say that after hearing that story and reading this thread you guys are converting me over to the No Kid Black Belts camp. Maybe some type of stripe deal or weird color things, or something or other (fuschia belt, maybe?? mauve??? plaid???), but nothing that carries the weight of an adult 1st Dan until the child is about 16 or 17 years old.
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Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net
Talked to my nephew after going to a tournament (more about the tournament later). He told me there was a TKD one nearby. I asked him why he isn't training anymore since every time I've seen him for the past six years he's talking about martial arts or wrestling or snooping around for pressure points. He had the following story:
He got 3rd in a kids tournament when he was 7 or 8 years old. He was a yellow belt (8th or 7th gup). They MADE him fight brown and black belts. He said he didn't want to do it because he was afraid; after all, they were brown and black belts, right, and he was a beginner? The black belt and brown belt kids were the same size, same build, same age, etc.
Turns out he kicks BOTH of their butts, ROYALLY. Yet do to politics and whimpering the other two kids end up placing hirer than he did. There were points not called that he scores and points called by his opponents that he blocks, ducks, or slips. He said that the kid with the black belt was awful, even by little kid standards. He even told me at one point the kid punched him in the face as hard as he could, so in turn, he kicked the boy in the stomach and the boy started crying. Of course I believe him because I've been similarly dogged myself in the past and present (especially the present). He gets scolded for excessive contact and not the senior belt--it's okay for the senior belt to lose his temper but not the kohai! (I had to knock a teenager back a few feet who was trying to rumble with me in the tournament I was in--he was mad because he was not scoring, and he is 1st brown--the rank before 1st Dan, so he outranks me--he's lucky I nailed him in the chest out of restraint instead of in the chin, which he left WIDE OPEN.) I encouraged him to go back if he really likes doing it, ignore trophies, and be glad that he can at least fight. I also told him to get the Jaded Master to train him or the Jaded Master's son, or let me train him when I feel that I'm ready.
Why I mention this is simple: why is a black belt being beaten up by a yellow belt, even if they are kids? Not because the beginner lacked control on a luck shot, but because the black belt can't spar? And why in the hell is a black belt kid CRYING because he gets kicked in the stomach after he had punched someone in the face? He's not the only person that has told me a similar story.
So I must say that after hearing that story and reading this thread you guys are converting me over to the No Kid Black Belts camp. Maybe some type of stripe deal or weird color things, or something or other (fuschia belt, maybe?? mauve??? plaid???), but nothing that carries the weight of an adult 1st Dan until the child is about 16 or 17 years old.
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Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net
