Yeah Cecil! Pink belts for the girls and blue belts for the boys.
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Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org
Kids and Black Belts
Moderator: Available
Kids and Black Belts
Just my two cents again...
Our junior black belts are black with a white stripe running through the length of it - they have to earn the solid black one at age 16 with an adult shodan test.
Our junior black belt recently participated in her second tournament - facing older girls with more tournament experience - and similar rank (high brown). She got hit square in the throat - choked, lost her breath, and after about 10 seconds was back in the ring. She got hit in the jaw hard enough to make tears well up - but stayed in the ring. Then one more shot to the throat disqualified her opponent. But she went another round with the next opponent anyway.
Certainly some junior black belts cry - and some don't hang in there when the going gets tough - this probably happens in other ranks as well. But not this junior blackbelt anyway.
Peace,
Lori
Our junior black belts are black with a white stripe running through the length of it - they have to earn the solid black one at age 16 with an adult shodan test.
Our junior black belt recently participated in her second tournament - facing older girls with more tournament experience - and similar rank (high brown). She got hit square in the throat - choked, lost her breath, and after about 10 seconds was back in the ring. She got hit in the jaw hard enough to make tears well up - but stayed in the ring. Then one more shot to the throat disqualified her opponent. But she went another round with the next opponent anyway.
Certainly some junior black belts cry - and some don't hang in there when the going gets tough - this probably happens in other ranks as well. But not this junior blackbelt anyway.
Peace,
Lori
Kids and Black Belts
Being a father of a rough and tumble son can understand why you need to give children something to work for. When my son gets old enough to start martial arts training which will be 5 or 6 years old not 3. I want to see my son progress through junior rank levels but I want who ever the instructor is to stress that my son's belt is a junior grade and I may even go as far as requesting that my son wear a white belt and simply acquire colored stripes or where a colored belt with a white stripe through it. Well thats just my view point as a dad.
Kids and Black Belts
Mule wrote
...I want to see my son progress through junior rank levels but I want who ever the instructor is to stress that my son's belt is a junior grade and I may even go as far as requesting that my son wear a white belt and simply acquire colored stripes or where a colored belt with a white stripe through it...
When kids (and adults) get a promotion, it is a sense of accomplishment and pride. As adults, hopefully we have learned to temper our egos, that the promotion comes as a result of a lot of hard work, practice, and dedication. Children often see just another colored belt (or another stripe) around their waist. It is important to impress upon them that they have earned the promotion and the respect and responsibility that goes with it.
Mule, it sounds like you are the kind of dad that will instill in your son the proper morals and values that he needs. A reminder around his waist won't be necessary.
MHO.
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Duane
...I want to see my son progress through junior rank levels but I want who ever the instructor is to stress that my son's belt is a junior grade and I may even go as far as requesting that my son wear a white belt and simply acquire colored stripes or where a colored belt with a white stripe through it...
When kids (and adults) get a promotion, it is a sense of accomplishment and pride. As adults, hopefully we have learned to temper our egos, that the promotion comes as a result of a lot of hard work, practice, and dedication. Children often see just another colored belt (or another stripe) around their waist. It is important to impress upon them that they have earned the promotion and the respect and responsibility that goes with it.
Mule, it sounds like you are the kind of dad that will instill in your son the proper morals and values that he needs. A reminder around his waist won't be necessary.
MHO.
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Duane
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Allen M.
Kids and Black Belts
Mule,
I once knew this maverick karate instructor who has two mid-teenage sons who have been immersed in different martial arts since they were old enough to jump on his back while he was sitting on the floor doing stretches. Dad never stressed belt levels with them, but now they are developing lives of their own much different from karate, he sometimes wishes they went for that rag when he had a chance to bring them to the doorstep. But it doesn’t matter, because the subtle discipline of their karate training throughout their lives has molded character into them, which is the real mark of a black belt[most important]. Dad says they still can walk into a tournament without training for it and walk away with some kind of trophy, and usually do [that’s better than any belt].
Let your kid go to a decent karate school of your choosing, and let him progress at the same rates and wear the same colors as the other kids without intervention and without knocking the junior bb stuff [putting those things down in front of them is a real turn-off and not good for their self-esteem]. One day in his training when he gets older, let him know that to be a black belt, it has to come from within. He will know by his own internal clock. Almost by magic, his little alarm will go off without any outside assistance, and he will let you know. Mother nature has a way of taking care of herself.
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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/ mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/
I once knew this maverick karate instructor who has two mid-teenage sons who have been immersed in different martial arts since they were old enough to jump on his back while he was sitting on the floor doing stretches. Dad never stressed belt levels with them, but now they are developing lives of their own much different from karate, he sometimes wishes they went for that rag when he had a chance to bring them to the doorstep. But it doesn’t matter, because the subtle discipline of their karate training throughout their lives has molded character into them, which is the real mark of a black belt[most important]. Dad says they still can walk into a tournament without training for it and walk away with some kind of trophy, and usually do [that’s better than any belt].
Let your kid go to a decent karate school of your choosing, and let him progress at the same rates and wear the same colors as the other kids without intervention and without knocking the junior bb stuff [putting those things down in front of them is a real turn-off and not good for their self-esteem]. One day in his training when he gets older, let him know that to be a black belt, it has to come from within. He will know by his own internal clock. Almost by magic, his little alarm will go off without any outside assistance, and he will let you know. Mother nature has a way of taking care of herself.
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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/ mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/
Kids and Black Belts
Okay, I'm 15 years old and I have my junior blackbelt in Go-Ju Karate. I'm supposed to get graded for my "normal" blackbelt this september after my 16th birthday in June. I've seen a lot of kids younger than me (not in my federation mind you) with 1st and 2nd degree blackbelts in this and that. Yeah, some of them are flashy and quick, but they do lack strength and wisdom.
I'm glad we have this junior system because why have a blackbelt if your not treated like one? I'm sure a lot less people respect kids with black belts than they do adults. I also think every good blackbelt has to be a good teacher. I come from a small club with only 4 or 5 black belts, and we all teach. That is one major thing that stands out with our blackbelts, the ability to teach.
One reason I'm glad I was a junior black belt first for a year or two is that my teaching skills increased dramatically, and now will be a respected blackbelt, who can also teach karate.
Yours in Budo,
Ben McWade
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Attack the attack
I'm glad we have this junior system because why have a blackbelt if your not treated like one? I'm sure a lot less people respect kids with black belts than they do adults. I also think every good blackbelt has to be a good teacher. I come from a small club with only 4 or 5 black belts, and we all teach. That is one major thing that stands out with our blackbelts, the ability to teach.
One reason I'm glad I was a junior black belt first for a year or two is that my teaching skills increased dramatically, and now will be a respected blackbelt, who can also teach karate.
Yours in Budo,
Ben McWade
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Attack the attack
Kids and Black Belts
Ben McWade-san
How do you “feel” about re-taking the Shodan Test again when you are 16. Would it “feel” the same, as if you had made the rank the first time.
I am glad to see that a junior student has read and replied to these forums. Truer meanings of the martial arts are written on these pages. This is the one area where the Black Belt mentality can flourish. It is because of these forums that a knowledgeable martial artist can begin to re-think their training and movements along the lines of self-defense and general awareness. How many juniors have read or posted intelligent thoughts about the complexities of the “fighting ways”. Is it just the dan ranks who post their observations and thoughts? No, it is mostly adults, of all ranks.
To award a black belt to anyone means what! They have learned the movements and dojo decorum, taught to them by their instructors, and has the ability to recall it when asked to demonstrate. Does this make them a black belt. Just because they can perform (not in real life situations) these movements as learned in a dojo, are they capable of the mentality associated with the rank.
I have a junior student at my school. He is 10 years old. He has missed only one class since I have opened my school. He knows the names of ALL the katas. He is almost always waiting at the door when I open the school. He has studied karate FULL TIME from February 28th to the present. Before that he was a student at the Brockton Community School after school program, where he received his first promotion in December, in a class that has 8 weekly lessons of one hour each. These after school programs barely get through Sanchin before the class breaks up. He was promoted to 2 stripe on the 28th of March and then to 3 stripes last week. He is performing better than another of my students who is a yellow belt. A smart kid who demonstrates the kata as an adult does (I.E. not just doing the movements correctly but also keeps his feet in Sanchin). Will he be a junior black belt at the age of 14. It sure looks like he will know how to MOVE his body like a black belt. Will his punches and kicks be as effective as an adult with a brown belt? I can not foresee that, but I would doubt it.
I have seen some big people able to easily intimidate a child, just by their size, and these have been some of the gentlest people I know. These juniors do not have their bodies developed enough to become a factor when dealing with adults. Intimidation or the startle factor is inherent in any person but as adults we have learned to calm those fears by the confidence of our training, and we also have the muscle development capable to perform against other adults. I have gone toe to toe with some of the best Uechi-ryu fighters. I am confident that I can kick and punch as hard as they can and if I surprise them and get in a few “shots” they will be hurt. Does a junior black belt have this confidence, the ability, and the mindset? The reasons I give for my confidence comes from experience. I have the, been there, done that mentality that can not be found in a junior student. Will a junior black belt of 14 years old, be able to ward off an attacker who is the same age, but has “street fighting sense” and maybe a knife? I do not think so.
What about the threat of an adult kidnapper? The fact that we do not train in “real fighting situations” can make adults re-think our confrontations. It is the basis for most of these other forum discussions. How can anyone even consider that a junior student has the mindset to react in similar fashion as an adult. I know when I was a pre high school graduate, I KNEW EVERYTHING ALREADY. What I did not know was not important to me. Well, I learn something new everyday, and the only thing I really know is, I DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT ANYTHING.
It is in the full development of the body and mind, that I consider a candidate worthy of the title of Black Belt.
I am condoning the multiple ranks for purple belts and the brown stripe for a red belt. Then when the student is 14, will be tested for Sankyu. I will then have two years to make them gain the experience of fighting and training with adults while their bodies become fully developed.
Please see the ranking system that I will be using for my school at http://members.aol.com/brocktonuka/Ranks.htm
How do you “feel” about re-taking the Shodan Test again when you are 16. Would it “feel” the same, as if you had made the rank the first time.
I am glad to see that a junior student has read and replied to these forums. Truer meanings of the martial arts are written on these pages. This is the one area where the Black Belt mentality can flourish. It is because of these forums that a knowledgeable martial artist can begin to re-think their training and movements along the lines of self-defense and general awareness. How many juniors have read or posted intelligent thoughts about the complexities of the “fighting ways”. Is it just the dan ranks who post their observations and thoughts? No, it is mostly adults, of all ranks.
To award a black belt to anyone means what! They have learned the movements and dojo decorum, taught to them by their instructors, and has the ability to recall it when asked to demonstrate. Does this make them a black belt. Just because they can perform (not in real life situations) these movements as learned in a dojo, are they capable of the mentality associated with the rank.
I have a junior student at my school. He is 10 years old. He has missed only one class since I have opened my school. He knows the names of ALL the katas. He is almost always waiting at the door when I open the school. He has studied karate FULL TIME from February 28th to the present. Before that he was a student at the Brockton Community School after school program, where he received his first promotion in December, in a class that has 8 weekly lessons of one hour each. These after school programs barely get through Sanchin before the class breaks up. He was promoted to 2 stripe on the 28th of March and then to 3 stripes last week. He is performing better than another of my students who is a yellow belt. A smart kid who demonstrates the kata as an adult does (I.E. not just doing the movements correctly but also keeps his feet in Sanchin). Will he be a junior black belt at the age of 14. It sure looks like he will know how to MOVE his body like a black belt. Will his punches and kicks be as effective as an adult with a brown belt? I can not foresee that, but I would doubt it.
I have seen some big people able to easily intimidate a child, just by their size, and these have been some of the gentlest people I know. These juniors do not have their bodies developed enough to become a factor when dealing with adults. Intimidation or the startle factor is inherent in any person but as adults we have learned to calm those fears by the confidence of our training, and we also have the muscle development capable to perform against other adults. I have gone toe to toe with some of the best Uechi-ryu fighters. I am confident that I can kick and punch as hard as they can and if I surprise them and get in a few “shots” they will be hurt. Does a junior black belt have this confidence, the ability, and the mindset? The reasons I give for my confidence comes from experience. I have the, been there, done that mentality that can not be found in a junior student. Will a junior black belt of 14 years old, be able to ward off an attacker who is the same age, but has “street fighting sense” and maybe a knife? I do not think so.
What about the threat of an adult kidnapper? The fact that we do not train in “real fighting situations” can make adults re-think our confrontations. It is the basis for most of these other forum discussions. How can anyone even consider that a junior student has the mindset to react in similar fashion as an adult. I know when I was a pre high school graduate, I KNEW EVERYTHING ALREADY. What I did not know was not important to me. Well, I learn something new everyday, and the only thing I really know is, I DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT ANYTHING.
It is in the full development of the body and mind, that I consider a candidate worthy of the title of Black Belt.
I am condoning the multiple ranks for purple belts and the brown stripe for a red belt. Then when the student is 14, will be tested for Sankyu. I will then have two years to make them gain the experience of fighting and training with adults while their bodies become fully developed.
Please see the ranking system that I will be using for my school at http://members.aol.com/brocktonuka/Ranks.htm
Kids and Black Belts
Well, as I said, I take Okinawan Go-Ju Ryu karate and in our federation, you "have" to be 16yrs old before you can be graded to black. This doesn't mean that if you've been a junior bb for 11 years that you automatically get your "senior" bb, you still have to be graded.
I think this makes sense otherwise, what's the point of waiting if your just going to get it given to you? They might as well do it now (except for the maturity level).
Our bb gradings are about 8 hours onlg and they are accompanied with a 30 page essay on anything to do with karate. My junior bb grading was 5 or 6 hours long with no essay. Usually, if you're going to get graded, you have to travel down to Toronto where our Homebu (spelling?) is. However, this september, the president of our federation is coming to our club, and is going to grade me then. I'm glad that they make you wait until you're 16 before you can be graded, otherwaise you will be some young kid being graded with 30 other strange people while some japanese guy yells at you. If you are going to get graded when you're young, you should go through the same training as anyone else.
Like I said, I come from a small part-time club where I am one of 4 or 5 black belts. I think I am respected, if not as much, than nearly as much as the other bb and I for sure know more than I should (at my level).
My father is also in karate with me and has recieved his Shodan-Ho (or maybe Shodan), and I know at least as much as he.
Anyway, I have nothing to complain about the way this system works and I am glad I waited.
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Attack the attack
I think this makes sense otherwise, what's the point of waiting if your just going to get it given to you? They might as well do it now (except for the maturity level).
Our bb gradings are about 8 hours onlg and they are accompanied with a 30 page essay on anything to do with karate. My junior bb grading was 5 or 6 hours long with no essay. Usually, if you're going to get graded, you have to travel down to Toronto where our Homebu (spelling?) is. However, this september, the president of our federation is coming to our club, and is going to grade me then. I'm glad that they make you wait until you're 16 before you can be graded, otherwaise you will be some young kid being graded with 30 other strange people while some japanese guy yells at you. If you are going to get graded when you're young, you should go through the same training as anyone else.
Like I said, I come from a small part-time club where I am one of 4 or 5 black belts. I think I am respected, if not as much, than nearly as much as the other bb and I for sure know more than I should (at my level).
My father is also in karate with me and has recieved his Shodan-Ho (or maybe Shodan), and I know at least as much as he.
Anyway, I have nothing to complain about the way this system works and I am glad I waited.
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Attack the attack
Kids and Black Belts
Thank you for the compliment Duane C. and thank you Allan M. for the advice. I will accept what ever rankning system the instructor uses simply because I'm going to be very selective in who I let train my son and so when I choose an instructor he will already have my trust. I don't care if I ever reach black belt and I want to stress to my son that he shouldn't either but with the hard work I've put into my training and cross training I know I will reach black belt when I am ready and I hope my son has the same philosophy as me when he matures. Today people are too hung up on rank instead of ability. I recently sparred a 4th degree black belt in a mixed martial arts style who was visiting my school. He was approximatly 40 to 50 lbs. lighter than me and 4 to 6 years younger. Now granted he was fast but he lacked power but he is also a national tournement champion. Would I want to fight him at a tournement? No, he'd have me down 5-0 in record time. Do I believe he is an all powerful black belt I should fear? No, he's a kid and I respect him and his skill but I don't fear him. And I believe someone said somewhere in this forum that one should fear his or her instructor a little and I can honestly say that I have feared all of my instructors to some degree. But that's kind of off the topic. I feel the general consensus is that junior black belts are junior black belts and when they reach the level where their instructor is ready to either test them again for black belt or award them their adult black belt due to their ability that they already possess then it's the responsibility of the instructor to give legitimate black belts or they will be responsible in getting some poor kid or adult for that matter hurt when they face a "real" black belt down the road. And as always I am just glad to be here.
[This message has been edited by Mule (edited April 26, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Mule (edited April 26, 2000).]
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Peter Soccio
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu May 04, 2000 6:01 am
Kids and Black Belts
I am strongly against kids wearing black belts. To them it is just another belt, something they can show off to everyone. If i ever teach a student they will not attain black belt till they are at least 16 years old.
A black belt is a great thing to achieve and i hope that i achieve this soon. But a 10 year old black belt is really not good, especially for the child involved. It will give them a false sense of confidence, until that day they are beaten by someone else, then there confidence is shattered. i saw a 6 year old girl at a tournament wearing a black belt and i thought that was just plain ridiculous. By seeing a 6 year old wearing a black belt just makes me feel that the parents of these children just buy these black belts, they havent truly earned their black belts like others have. They dont realise that being a black belt, you have to show wisdom as well as your skill. The training to be and stay a black belt is hard, harder than any child can imagine.
Everyone in my class is black belt except for me, but im treated like any other black belt and i will tell you this, training as a black belt is hard, very hard work. By giving a kid a black belt you are sending them into a chapter of their lives that they are just not ready for. As anyone knows, the really hard training starts after attaining black belt, and a kid will not understand that, no matter how good they are.
Kids must learn wisdom which will only come of age, by giving them black belts, that wisdom that most martial artists possess will be lost !!!
A black belt is a great thing to achieve and i hope that i achieve this soon. But a 10 year old black belt is really not good, especially for the child involved. It will give them a false sense of confidence, until that day they are beaten by someone else, then there confidence is shattered. i saw a 6 year old girl at a tournament wearing a black belt and i thought that was just plain ridiculous. By seeing a 6 year old wearing a black belt just makes me feel that the parents of these children just buy these black belts, they havent truly earned their black belts like others have. They dont realise that being a black belt, you have to show wisdom as well as your skill. The training to be and stay a black belt is hard, harder than any child can imagine.
Everyone in my class is black belt except for me, but im treated like any other black belt and i will tell you this, training as a black belt is hard, very hard work. By giving a kid a black belt you are sending them into a chapter of their lives that they are just not ready for. As anyone knows, the really hard training starts after attaining black belt, and a kid will not understand that, no matter how good they are.
Kids must learn wisdom which will only come of age, by giving them black belts, that wisdom that most martial artists possess will be lost !!!
Kids and Black Belts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Soccio:
To them it is just another belt, something they can show off to everyone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is simply not true in my dojo. A "junior" blackbelt is not just another belt to youngsters. It is a black belt!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
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This is a very good point, sir. Most kids really do not understand the degree of effort put forth consistantly by adult ranks. But thats because they are kids! They don't understand lots of stuff! Thats why we have a "junior" dan rank for them, we don't allow them to test for the adult rank. "Best in your catagory", I beleive Allen Moulton said on a different thread. Whats wrong with that? And, they still have the goal of attaining the real blackbelt when they turn 16.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
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"There ain't no graduation from this kind of education"
To them it is just another belt, something they can show off to everyone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is simply not true in my dojo. A "junior" blackbelt is not just another belt to youngsters. It is a black belt!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
This can and does happen to "real" adult blackbelts too! Check out Sensei Van Canna's forum for some good conversation along these lines.It will give them a false sense of confidence, until that day they are beaten by someone else, then there confidence is shattered.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
This is a legitimate concern, I think. In dojos I know that have these programs it ALWAYS takes a kid more years of training to achieve their junior dan grade than it would the average adult. Why? Because of the standards set by the teachers. Kids are made to work hard for their goal, forced to earn it, and they do! Average time for a kid to get a junior dan grade is 5-7 years of training. Indeed, we do need standards.i saw a 6 year old girl at a tournament wearing a black belt and i thought that was just plain ridiculous. By seeing a 6 year old wearing a black belt just makes me feel that the parents of these children just buy these black belts, they havent truly earned their black belts like others have.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Again, in dojos I know of this really is not true. These kids show wisdom far beyond their peers'. Why do kids want the coveted black belt anyway? In my dojo it is due to the adult role models, whom they look up to and emulate.They dont realise that being a black belt, you have to show wisdom as well as your skill.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
The training to be and stay a black belt is hard, harder than any child can imagine.
This is a very good point, sir. Most kids really do not understand the degree of effort put forth consistantly by adult ranks. But thats because they are kids! They don't understand lots of stuff! Thats why we have a "junior" dan rank for them, we don't allow them to test for the adult rank. "Best in your catagory", I beleive Allen Moulton said on a different thread. Whats wrong with that? And, they still have the goal of attaining the real blackbelt when they turn 16.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Actually, many adults are ignorant of this fact. The smart/wise ones are honest with themselves and figure this out, like you have! (actually I am beggining to think the "really hard" stuff starts at 5th dan, cause I ain't there yet.)As anyone knows, the really hard training starts after attaining black belt,...
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"There ain't no graduation from this kind of education"
Kids and Black Belts
A six year old with a black belt??!!
It should take about that long to get one!
She would have had to join when she was one or two.
Whats the point of having a black belt when you're six? She's probably going to drop out when shes older because she will have to be a blackbelt for the rest of her martial art career (no change is boring). She has nothing to strive for.
There is no way she is going to become a second or third degree black belt before she's at least in her teens (sould be in her 20's or 30's though), and she definitely won't become a master anytime soon...
Jeeze, some Senseis are either too lazy to think about what they are doing or they just don't care.
It should take about that long to get one!
She would have had to join when she was one or two.
Whats the point of having a black belt when you're six? She's probably going to drop out when shes older because she will have to be a blackbelt for the rest of her martial art career (no change is boring). She has nothing to strive for.
There is no way she is going to become a second or third degree black belt before she's at least in her teens (sould be in her 20's or 30's though), and she definitely won't become a master anytime soon...
Jeeze, some Senseis are either too lazy to think about what they are doing or they just don't care.
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Peter Soccio
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu May 04, 2000 6:01 am
Kids and Black Belts
Quote:
A junior Black Belt is not just another belt to youngsters. It is a black belt !!
Can i ask you this Billy B., what does a black belt mean to you ??
Peter Soccio
A junior Black Belt is not just another belt to youngsters. It is a black belt !!
Can i ask you this Billy B., what does a black belt mean to you ??
Peter Soccio
Kids and Black Belts
Peter,
You ask a very good question. What does it mean to me? My answer, I am guessing, will differ greatly from other folks'. To me personaly, it is a mile stone. It simply represents time in grade - hard work for many years. "Perserverance", If I had to use one word. Personaly, I would just as soon like a big cocktail party every three to five years or so instead of a new "rank". Now that is a proper mile stone!
A birthday party, of sorts!
Let me ask this. Why do we have colored belts, "Ranks"? I suspect they benefit the organization far more than the individual. As J.D. suggests, the best method would be to do away with the belt system all together. Yes, I know he was probably only suggesting the junior belt system, but I think his idea applies also to us "real" blackbelts. The only reason to keep the belt system is that it benefits organizations, and not just financialy.(the fees should be abolished, they are an abomination!- like income tax that was supposed to support the war effort in 1942!)
Rank helps keep a certain order in a dojo, and shows people where they should look for help if they want to improve, I think. Junior black belts do this for the junior classes. It is powerful, it works! It makes junior students work harder. If we are talking about standards here, I am not in disagreement. We should strive to have the highest standards.
J.D,
I fail to see how my argument is emotionaly based. I am basing my argument on the positve effects these "rewards" have on children's training and interest in karate. I have yet to see any negative effects in the Uechi dojo I have seen these programs operating in. (I admitt to limited exposure to other systems/organizations - I have never seen a six year old blackbelt)
Thanks for clearing up the matter of the other post. I thought I might have offended you based on my previous post on that thread, where I reacted to your comment but did not adress you directly. I did'nt know how to respond to you though, because I had trouble interpeting your language. It was a great post, though!
You ask a very good question. What does it mean to me? My answer, I am guessing, will differ greatly from other folks'. To me personaly, it is a mile stone. It simply represents time in grade - hard work for many years. "Perserverance", If I had to use one word. Personaly, I would just as soon like a big cocktail party every three to five years or so instead of a new "rank". Now that is a proper mile stone!
A birthday party, of sorts!
Let me ask this. Why do we have colored belts, "Ranks"? I suspect they benefit the organization far more than the individual. As J.D. suggests, the best method would be to do away with the belt system all together. Yes, I know he was probably only suggesting the junior belt system, but I think his idea applies also to us "real" blackbelts. The only reason to keep the belt system is that it benefits organizations, and not just financialy.(the fees should be abolished, they are an abomination!- like income tax that was supposed to support the war effort in 1942!)
Rank helps keep a certain order in a dojo, and shows people where they should look for help if they want to improve, I think. Junior black belts do this for the junior classes. It is powerful, it works! It makes junior students work harder. If we are talking about standards here, I am not in disagreement. We should strive to have the highest standards.
J.D,
I fail to see how my argument is emotionaly based. I am basing my argument on the positve effects these "rewards" have on children's training and interest in karate. I have yet to see any negative effects in the Uechi dojo I have seen these programs operating in. (I admitt to limited exposure to other systems/organizations - I have never seen a six year old blackbelt)
Thanks for clearing up the matter of the other post. I thought I might have offended you based on my previous post on that thread, where I reacted to your comment but did not adress you directly. I did'nt know how to respond to you though, because I had trouble interpeting your language. It was a great post, though!
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Peter Soccio
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu May 04, 2000 6:01 am
Kids and Black Belts
Billy B.
Im glad you answered my question, and no i wasnt offended by your last post.
But for me the topic of a child black belt does make me a little bit , angry, jealous perhaps. Im sure things are different at the Uechi ryu dojo, but in the style i practice Goju Ryu Karate do, there are to many junior black belts who think they are better then everybody else. I know this from experience, but dont get me wrong, i know a few junior black belts who are great to work with and they help me out with my techniques and katas.
But in my dojo, one of the grading requirements is : The student must be of high moral character, and i have seen that lacking in my style. And i believe that high moral character should be judged just as harshly as the techniques in a black belt grading. It does not mean every junior black belt in Goju Ryu is bad, most are good but there are those few that give the rest of them a bad name. Really the only way to stop this is to not have a belt system, which seems good to me, but it is needed, how is an instructor keep track of 30 students in a class if they are not wearing any type of belt to show how much skill they have. So a belt system is needed.
And as for charging people to learn martial arts ?? That's a crock in my mind, no one should have to pay to learn the martial arts. That is what i believe.
You seem to have a lot of wisdom Billy B.
I wish to hear your opinions on other topics as well.
Godd luck
Peter Soccio
Im glad you answered my question, and no i wasnt offended by your last post.
But for me the topic of a child black belt does make me a little bit , angry, jealous perhaps. Im sure things are different at the Uechi ryu dojo, but in the style i practice Goju Ryu Karate do, there are to many junior black belts who think they are better then everybody else. I know this from experience, but dont get me wrong, i know a few junior black belts who are great to work with and they help me out with my techniques and katas.
But in my dojo, one of the grading requirements is : The student must be of high moral character, and i have seen that lacking in my style. And i believe that high moral character should be judged just as harshly as the techniques in a black belt grading. It does not mean every junior black belt in Goju Ryu is bad, most are good but there are those few that give the rest of them a bad name. Really the only way to stop this is to not have a belt system, which seems good to me, but it is needed, how is an instructor keep track of 30 students in a class if they are not wearing any type of belt to show how much skill they have. So a belt system is needed.
And as for charging people to learn martial arts ?? That's a crock in my mind, no one should have to pay to learn the martial arts. That is what i believe.
You seem to have a lot of wisdom Billy B.
I wish to hear your opinions on other topics as well.
Godd luck
Peter Soccio
