A teenager in the class that I taught asked me this question.
I am familiar with two forms of meditation: active form - kata and "passive" - sitting in the lotus position. I know there are several reasons why people meditate, some of them being relaxation, clearing the mind, recharging the inner energy, concentration and so on. I guess these would vary from person to person.
So what are some of the common reasons for martial artists to meditate?
Looking forward to your opinions,
Vladimir.
Why meditate?
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Evan Pantazi
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Why meditate?
Vladimir San,
To build Chi for longevity...yet to be proved effective for me, or to use in releasing into your opponent...got this one working.
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Evan Pantazi
www.kyusho.com
To build Chi for longevity...yet to be proved effective for me, or to use in releasing into your opponent...got this one working.
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Evan Pantazi
www.kyusho.com
Why meditate?
Interesting question... Though I never do pass up a good meditation, the average martial artist would want the mental training that meditation can bring. Meditation can teach you to relax and focus, which are both crutial in a real self defense situation, or even in kumite.
Adam
The ever so lowly white belt.
Adam
The ever so lowly white belt.
Why meditate?
Evan-sensei and Adam,
Thank you very much. These are the kind of responses I was looking for. I especially like the release of power/energy, although I think this kind of control over own energy will take years to develop. Thanks again.
Regards,
Vladimir
Thank you very much. These are the kind of responses I was looking for. I especially like the release of power/energy, although I think this kind of control over own energy will take years to develop. Thanks again.
Regards,
Vladimir
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Bill Glasheen
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- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Why meditate?
Vladimir
I think there are many reasons to meditate, so this can be a very personal thing.
Whether by active or by passive meditation, I believe one of the most important reasons to do so is to gain control over one's mental disposition. We've had discussions (even disagreements) over this before as it pertains to various subjects, but the fact is well known - you can consciously control the autonomic nervous system. This means - on a day to day level - that one can theoretically meditate to help deal with daily stress. We already see that there are some around us who deal with stress better than others. Meditation allows one to actively affect or educate that ability. This can mean lower blood pressure, improved immune function, better relationships with peers, more enjoyment from life, etc.
The strictly martial standpoint is a region of a bit more debate. Theoretically if you can affect the tone of the autonomic nervous system, then you can attenuate the "chemical dump" that people refer to when the $hit hits the fan. Understand now that I am NOT saying you extinguish it. You would no more want to extinguish the fight or flight response to a life-or-death scenario than you would want to extinguish pain that comes from an injury that needs healing time. Both responses have important survival functions. But there's such a thing as the right level of response to achieve the right outcome. Too much pain can mean excessive discomfort and longer healing time. Too extreme a response to stress can make someone totally disfunctional. Neither scenario is desireable. Thus with the pain, one would want either a painkiller to take the edge off the pain, or internal control (attained by only a few) to accomplish the same thing. With the life-or-death situation, you ideally want to be in touch with your body mechanisms and responses so you can achieve a constructive response to the threat. That's the theory.
We know that some folks respond to stress better than others. Send a bunch of people off to war. Some folks crap in their pants and get shot. Some are able to deal with the tremendous stress and survive. Meditation - from a martial perspective - is the means by which we try to get an active handle on that stress and be one of the survivors when that time comes.
- Bill
I think there are many reasons to meditate, so this can be a very personal thing.
Whether by active or by passive meditation, I believe one of the most important reasons to do so is to gain control over one's mental disposition. We've had discussions (even disagreements) over this before as it pertains to various subjects, but the fact is well known - you can consciously control the autonomic nervous system. This means - on a day to day level - that one can theoretically meditate to help deal with daily stress. We already see that there are some around us who deal with stress better than others. Meditation allows one to actively affect or educate that ability. This can mean lower blood pressure, improved immune function, better relationships with peers, more enjoyment from life, etc.
The strictly martial standpoint is a region of a bit more debate. Theoretically if you can affect the tone of the autonomic nervous system, then you can attenuate the "chemical dump" that people refer to when the $hit hits the fan. Understand now that I am NOT saying you extinguish it. You would no more want to extinguish the fight or flight response to a life-or-death scenario than you would want to extinguish pain that comes from an injury that needs healing time. Both responses have important survival functions. But there's such a thing as the right level of response to achieve the right outcome. Too much pain can mean excessive discomfort and longer healing time. Too extreme a response to stress can make someone totally disfunctional. Neither scenario is desireable. Thus with the pain, one would want either a painkiller to take the edge off the pain, or internal control (attained by only a few) to accomplish the same thing. With the life-or-death situation, you ideally want to be in touch with your body mechanisms and responses so you can achieve a constructive response to the threat. That's the theory.
We know that some folks respond to stress better than others. Send a bunch of people off to war. Some folks crap in their pants and get shot. Some are able to deal with the tremendous stress and survive. Meditation - from a martial perspective - is the means by which we try to get an active handle on that stress and be one of the survivors when that time comes.
- Bill
Why meditate?
Another thing in my experience has been learning how to shut off meaningless internal dialogue. This seems to be good for intuition, and for reaction time. You just see, and do.
Probably great for ADD and OCD?
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sean
Probably great for ADD and OCD?
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sean
Why meditate?
Bill-sensei,
I appreciate your detailed response. Thank you. Obviously if one is attacked there is no time to meditate. So I assume that by doing it regularly, one's stress level is reduced in such situations. I guess the mind gets trained to react calmly to stressful cases...Right?
As for shutting of the meaningless dialogue, I always find this to be the hardest part, "empty your mind and think of nothing" - not easy.
Thank you once again.
Vladimir
I appreciate your detailed response. Thank you. Obviously if one is attacked there is no time to meditate. So I assume that by doing it regularly, one's stress level is reduced in such situations. I guess the mind gets trained to react calmly to stressful cases...Right?
As for shutting of the meaningless dialogue, I always find this to be the hardest part, "empty your mind and think of nothing" - not easy.
Thank you once again.
Vladimir
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
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Why meditate?
Another good example, Sean.
I thought of more. There are actually a number of different types of meditation. Some are like the kind Sean mentioned, and deal with "quieting the internal dialogue." This is the kind that reduces stress. But there are other types of medidation for those who are into this at a more advanced level.
One type, for example, trains the brain to look at situations and see things as if we are viewing them for the first time. This helps make an individual more perceptive. That would be a great skill to have if you were in law enforcement and had to remember details about a crime scene.
Another type of skill comes under the category of mental rehersal. For instance, it has been shown that folks who meditate about shooting foul shots do better at that than an equivalent group that just sits quietly for the same amount of time. Thus it is very useful to mentally rehearse the way you would like certain situations to come out. For instance, you could spend time in the evening quietly reviewing everything that happened in a sparring match that evening, and imagine capitalizing on all the opportunities that you missed. Or you could mentally do a kata in your head without even opening your eyes or contracting a muscle. Both have benefits.
Visualization and imagery are extremely useful types of meditation. Evan and I often agree things can be done, but disagree how they happen. It's well known that I don't believe in anything like chi per se. However I believe what Evan is talking about actually works, because the visualization helps the mind enable the body. That's MY opinion anyway, for what it is worth.
- Bill
I thought of more. There are actually a number of different types of meditation. Some are like the kind Sean mentioned, and deal with "quieting the internal dialogue." This is the kind that reduces stress. But there are other types of medidation for those who are into this at a more advanced level.
One type, for example, trains the brain to look at situations and see things as if we are viewing them for the first time. This helps make an individual more perceptive. That would be a great skill to have if you were in law enforcement and had to remember details about a crime scene.
Another type of skill comes under the category of mental rehersal. For instance, it has been shown that folks who meditate about shooting foul shots do better at that than an equivalent group that just sits quietly for the same amount of time. Thus it is very useful to mentally rehearse the way you would like certain situations to come out. For instance, you could spend time in the evening quietly reviewing everything that happened in a sparring match that evening, and imagine capitalizing on all the opportunities that you missed. Or you could mentally do a kata in your head without even opening your eyes or contracting a muscle. Both have benefits.
Visualization and imagery are extremely useful types of meditation. Evan and I often agree things can be done, but disagree how they happen. It's well known that I don't believe in anything like chi per se. However I believe what Evan is talking about actually works, because the visualization helps the mind enable the body. That's MY opinion anyway, for what it is worth.
- Bill
Why meditate?
Other types include those that align specific physical states with the thought of energy or just as a feeling. For instance rooting/sinking, movement without opposing muscle interference, etc.
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sean
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sean
Why meditate?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
On rare occaisons in meditation, one can actually quickly see the fantasies arising and cut them off before they hijack the mind. What states the "masters" are able achieve, I don't know...
Medition, does it help one's martial skills? Can't say for sure. Does it help to know oneself better? Yes. I think that in itself makes the practice worthwhile.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited October 02, 2000).]
It's really rare to cut off all thoughts... What one comes to realize is how much we are often caught up in our own meaningless thoughts, fantasies and related emotions. These distract us from seeing what's really happening out there. (Think of walking around lost in one's thoughts... Where's the awareness?) Instead, we often project from that internal dialogue outwards.As for shutting of the meaningless dialogue, I always find this to be the hardest part, "empty your mind and think of nothing" - not easy.
On rare occaisons in meditation, one can actually quickly see the fantasies arising and cut them off before they hijack the mind. What states the "masters" are able achieve, I don't know...
Medition, does it help one's martial skills? Can't say for sure. Does it help to know oneself better? Yes. I think that in itself makes the practice worthwhile.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited October 02, 2000).]
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Joseph Bellone
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: MA, USA
Why meditate?
Holding of postures, commonly called "Zhuan Zhuang" in Chinese, for varying lengths of time is common in Chinese martial arts. This is often looked upon as a method of martial meditation. Holding of postures (especially in the internal arts) are fundamental to developing power in the body. Holding postures increases the unity of the mind and body in the most efficient manner as variables are reduced to a minimum. Posture training is often overlooked when discussing martial meditation.
good training,
Joe
good training,
Joe
Why meditate?
David,
I remember another thread like this.
Just wanted to point out what might be termed the "soft" method, that can have similar results to the "hard" method of focus and active shutting of thoughts, at least in terms of inner dialogue. In this method, one just lets ideas drift through the mind and lets go of them, without placing any importance on them. The more this is practiced, the mind becomes relaxed and stops trying all the time. This can save room in your head for thoughts that have a purpose, and for subconcious perceptions.
I think both methods probably lead to the same place, eventually.
P.s. an easy and simple thing to try for anyone who hasn't meditated before is to stare at the blue part of a candle flame in a dark room. ------------------
sean
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited October 02, 2000).]
I remember another thread like this.
Just wanted to point out what might be termed the "soft" method, that can have similar results to the "hard" method of focus and active shutting of thoughts, at least in terms of inner dialogue. In this method, one just lets ideas drift through the mind and lets go of them, without placing any importance on them. The more this is practiced, the mind becomes relaxed and stops trying all the time. This can save room in your head for thoughts that have a purpose, and for subconcious perceptions.
I think both methods probably lead to the same place, eventually.
P.s. an easy and simple thing to try for anyone who hasn't meditated before is to stare at the blue part of a candle flame in a dark room. ------------------
sean
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited October 02, 2000).]
Why meditate?
Sean,
Actually, I practice pretty much what you described. Note the thought (and sometimes even the underlying emotion) and let it go. Eventually thoughts have less ability to capture and take one away...
To me this is the "soft" way. It's an effort through a diffused awareness. Staring into a candle or what Joe B mentioned take effort through concentration. Physical versions of Yoga fall into this latter category as do chanting.
Yes, with respect to the mind, I think they end up at the same place. The specific path is chosen because to fit one's needs. I don't need "focused effort." I already get that through martial arts practice. So, with the meditative path, I choose the opposite.
david
Actually, I practice pretty much what you described. Note the thought (and sometimes even the underlying emotion) and let it go. Eventually thoughts have less ability to capture and take one away...
To me this is the "soft" way. It's an effort through a diffused awareness. Staring into a candle or what Joe B mentioned take effort through concentration. Physical versions of Yoga fall into this latter category as do chanting.
Yes, with respect to the mind, I think they end up at the same place. The specific path is chosen because to fit one's needs. I don't need "focused effort." I already get that through martial arts practice. So, with the meditative path, I choose the opposite.
david
Why meditate?
There is much here to glean. Personally, meditation has been very fruitful. One of the best discoveries was learning how to breath. Granted this was from a combination of hatha yoga, zen meditation and martial cardiovascular training. But meditation is at the root. I now routinely breath deeply, slowly filling more of my lungs and exhale more fully as well.
While this is relaxing, it is also energizing. It brings greater clarity and intent.
The martial applications are significant. Greater cardiovascular efficiency, which brings more endurance and a higher quality of physical performance. Improves the potential to blend mind, body and spirit.
Increased focus. Deep breathing can also infuse the spirit with a greater martial
potency, just as shallow breathing brings weakness.
JohnC
While this is relaxing, it is also energizing. It brings greater clarity and intent.
The martial applications are significant. Greater cardiovascular efficiency, which brings more endurance and a higher quality of physical performance. Improves the potential to blend mind, body and spirit.
Increased focus. Deep breathing can also infuse the spirit with a greater martial
potency, just as shallow breathing brings weakness.
JohnC
Why meditate?
As a sort of afterthought,
Chi? Yep, it's real. I've seen it and felt it, and no I don't see pink elephants in the sky. It even comes with it's own built in proof.
There are moving meditations that are designed to allow it's manifestation in the physical realm of perception. The catch is that no matter how many times or how well one performs the motions, it is only experienced when one DOES NOT THINK ABOUT IT.
Words and logic are tools to divide and segment perception, for communication of specific pieces of experience. Chi, like any other form of energy simply follows the path of least resistance. When the mind entertains language, which solidifies desire, ego, logic, doubt, separation, it becomes a very poor conductor.
You can't create it, it doesn't depend on belief or dogma. It's the stuff that life uses to remain as life.
One can only allow it to use the human organism as a vessel, by opening the gate between heaven and earth, otherwise known as the mind.
Chi, life energy, bioelectromagnetic force, whatever you want to call it, it's there.
You can't suggest it because if you do, you will use language. You can't desire it because it's already there. You can only allow it, by opening the mind to what it can't explain with language/logic.
I have nothing to gain from this, and there is no attachment to my ego.
Until your hands pass by each other and you feel a static electricity, or your hands pass through a bubble of polarity, until you feel a sucking energy that has nothing to do with mechanical alignment, what can I say?
Just talking about meditation.
I can't explain it, but if you want to experience it, you can't even think about it.
Logic is a tool, but we have become used to being the tool of logic.
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sean
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited October 03, 2000).]
Chi? Yep, it's real. I've seen it and felt it, and no I don't see pink elephants in the sky. It even comes with it's own built in proof.
There are moving meditations that are designed to allow it's manifestation in the physical realm of perception. The catch is that no matter how many times or how well one performs the motions, it is only experienced when one DOES NOT THINK ABOUT IT.
Words and logic are tools to divide and segment perception, for communication of specific pieces of experience. Chi, like any other form of energy simply follows the path of least resistance. When the mind entertains language, which solidifies desire, ego, logic, doubt, separation, it becomes a very poor conductor.
You can't create it, it doesn't depend on belief or dogma. It's the stuff that life uses to remain as life.
One can only allow it to use the human organism as a vessel, by opening the gate between heaven and earth, otherwise known as the mind.
Chi, life energy, bioelectromagnetic force, whatever you want to call it, it's there.
You can't suggest it because if you do, you will use language. You can't desire it because it's already there. You can only allow it, by opening the mind to what it can't explain with language/logic.
I have nothing to gain from this, and there is no attachment to my ego.
Until your hands pass by each other and you feel a static electricity, or your hands pass through a bubble of polarity, until you feel a sucking energy that has nothing to do with mechanical alignment, what can I say?
Just talking about meditation.
I can't explain it, but if you want to experience it, you can't even think about it.
Logic is a tool, but we have become used to being the tool of logic.
------------------
sean
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited October 03, 2000).]
