Colin 8 of 8
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My name is Colin 8 of 8, I am very much alive, and intend to stay that way.
Jack of many or master of one.
Moderator: Available
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Colin 8 of 8
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Portsmouth Hampshire UK
Jack of many or master of one.
Is it best to study one martial art till you are its master? Or to study many different arts but master none of them?
Colin 8 of 8
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My name is Colin 8 of 8, I am very much alive, and intend to stay that way.
Colin 8 of 8
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My name is Colin 8 of 8, I am very much alive, and intend to stay that way.
Jack of many or master of one.
Colin-san,
I love to drink green tea. I love jasmine green tea. I especially enjoy Peet's Jasmine Downy Pearls, which is a rare tea. I am in search of the "perfect" cup of green tea. There are so many variables that can effect the cup of tea like; freshness, the type of water (distilled, tap, or spring), water temperature, what kind of tea pot is used, what kind of cup, time of day, and of course your own disposition. With so many nuances to try and balance, and how to get them just right, the pursuit of that perfect cup can take a while - some may think, as I, it can be a lifetime of learning. Once you enjoy that perfect cup of tea, would you still want to drink one tomorrow??
In the Martial Arts, one can come from the approach that the understanding of one's chosen art has a beginning, middle, and an end. The End of learning suggests that there is nothing more to be gained or appreciated from that person.
If we assume that there are many layers and levels to "uncover," or discover, in the Martial Arts and that each new discovery reveals to us yet more things that we must explore, maybe learning and understanding and assimilating can [or should] be a lifetime pursuit.
Of course on another note, I can barely master my own life let alone consider myself to be now (or ever) a Master of anything.
I guess that means that I will have to just keep plodding along in search of the perfect movement within the perfect kata. 
Good luck in your travels!!
John
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John E. Doub, Jr.
Heiwa-Ryu Martial Arts Academy
http://www.heiwa-ryu.org/
"It is a way of life, not a sport."
I love to drink green tea. I love jasmine green tea. I especially enjoy Peet's Jasmine Downy Pearls, which is a rare tea. I am in search of the "perfect" cup of green tea. There are so many variables that can effect the cup of tea like; freshness, the type of water (distilled, tap, or spring), water temperature, what kind of tea pot is used, what kind of cup, time of day, and of course your own disposition. With so many nuances to try and balance, and how to get them just right, the pursuit of that perfect cup can take a while - some may think, as I, it can be a lifetime of learning. Once you enjoy that perfect cup of tea, would you still want to drink one tomorrow??
In the Martial Arts, one can come from the approach that the understanding of one's chosen art has a beginning, middle, and an end. The End of learning suggests that there is nothing more to be gained or appreciated from that person.
If we assume that there are many layers and levels to "uncover," or discover, in the Martial Arts and that each new discovery reveals to us yet more things that we must explore, maybe learning and understanding and assimilating can [or should] be a lifetime pursuit.Of course on another note, I can barely master my own life let alone consider myself to be now (or ever) a Master of anything.
I guess that means that I will have to just keep plodding along in search of the perfect movement within the perfect kata. Good luck in your travels!!
John
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John E. Doub, Jr.
Heiwa-Ryu Martial Arts Academy
http://www.heiwa-ryu.org/
"It is a way of life, not a sport."
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Jack of many or master of one.
Colin
I believe different people will give you different responses. This is - to some extent - a personal issue. I'll share my feelings. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
If one is to consider martial arts as an art of self-defense, then one necessarily has to branch out in order to investigate the entire force continuum. No, I don't particularly need to know how to throw grenades (I'll let some of the crazies that live in rural counties around here worry about the extremes ). But I really should consider everything from empty handed controlling methods to semiautomatic weapons. And even though some of the traditional arts are "extinct" (work with the sai as an example), the cross training can often complement the core.
- Bill
I believe different people will give you different responses. This is - to some extent - a personal issue. I'll share my feelings. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Pardon me for the editing, but my answer to this question is...yes. I believe everyone needs a core set of principles that all martial study operates on. In my case I have studied over half a dozen empty-handed arts for more than a year. I have settled on one system and one set of principles that I train around, and at this point I will only spend time working with arts that develop (rather than contradict) that core set of principles. To study only one art and/or with only one instructor can be a big handicap. One is not likely to face a bad guy that only knows how to fight your way, and different instructors/arts have unique strengths that may appeal to certain individuals in a way different from "the original."Is it best to study one martial art ... Or to study many different arts ... ?
If one is to consider martial arts as an art of self-defense, then one necessarily has to branch out in order to investigate the entire force continuum. No, I don't particularly need to know how to throw grenades (I'll let some of the crazies that live in rural counties around here worry about the extremes
). But I really should consider everything from empty handed controlling methods to semiautomatic weapons. And even though some of the traditional arts are "extinct" (work with the sai as an example), the cross training can often complement the core.- Bill
Jack of many or master of one.
8 of 8...
My opinion on this subject is that you should concentrate on one art that suites you.
Every so often you should cross-train in different arts which focus on a different aspect of combat.
For example: You have studied a striking style, such as Trakanon, for a year. You then attend a camp/seminar, in a grappling art, such as jujitsu. Over time you throw in some weapons.
However, I strongly believe you should commit most of your time to the original art which you chose.
My opinion on this subject is that you should concentrate on one art that suites you.
Every so often you should cross-train in different arts which focus on a different aspect of combat.
For example: You have studied a striking style, such as Trakanon, for a year. You then attend a camp/seminar, in a grappling art, such as jujitsu. Over time you throw in some weapons.
However, I strongly believe you should commit most of your time to the original art which you chose.
Jack of many or master of one.
Perhaps I can offer some suggestion on studying many different arts.
I've been studying, practicing, teaching Isshinryu for over 27 years. After attaining my ShoDan I found myself in the position of having to train myself and begin my own club without having any other Isshinryu instructor's within hours of my residence.
Having a great deal of free time as my wife was coaching swim teams back then and gone virtually all the time, I started going to other schools to train. Those instructors who graciously let me attend their program didn't teach Isshinryu, in fact they could have cared less about my own system, but they freely taught me and I traveled and trained as frequently as I could have.
Along the way I picked up a great deal of an older version of the Shotokan system, a great deal of the Goju system, a long term commitment to the study of Yang Tai Chi Chaun, an overview of various Northern Chinese systems, as well as much other information on aikido, and other arts.
I've never pretended that any of that made me an expert in those systems, on the other hand it gave me insight into how they were constructed, the approaches those instructors used for their classes, and a breadth of knowledge that was not avaiable to me concerning the Isshirnyu system. Also when I was judging those system kata in open tournaments, I had a stronger standard from each system in which to evaluate their performance.
As the years passed and I did my best to retain that knowledge, and those skills, they did have an impact on my Isshinryu. I began to understand how much was common across the differing systems, and how those differing training approaches were also within my core system.
For example today I spend a great deal of time finding the aikido and tai chi chaun within Okinawan systems, among other areas of study. If I had not received the instruction in those areas, and worked at them for long years, I would not have seen the obvious parallels to Okinawan Karate.
So all study can have a positive long term impact on one's training, provided one spends the time to actually build up those new skills and then try and apply them to one's system.
On the other hand, I don't feel a student has to do this. It simply is one alternative.
I didn't pick one system, and keep moving on after a few months or years. I first had some solid knowledge of my original system, and never stepped away from its practice. Each additional training, became a greater responsiblity to address in my own training.
I didn't try to mix and match the instruction based on short term study. Instead I did my best to practice each study in its own dimension. Then when I began to make some minor long term progress in understanding those systems, the fact there were common areas in my original system only enhanced its study.
Today I am simply an Isshinryu and a Tai Chi Chaun instructor of very minor note. On occassion I offer some of these studies to my students to allow them similar experiences.
In the long run we train until we cannot move any longer. We will slow and weaken, but perhaps our knowledge will still expand our capabilities as we decline.
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Victor Smith
I've been studying, practicing, teaching Isshinryu for over 27 years. After attaining my ShoDan I found myself in the position of having to train myself and begin my own club without having any other Isshinryu instructor's within hours of my residence.
Having a great deal of free time as my wife was coaching swim teams back then and gone virtually all the time, I started going to other schools to train. Those instructors who graciously let me attend their program didn't teach Isshinryu, in fact they could have cared less about my own system, but they freely taught me and I traveled and trained as frequently as I could have.
Along the way I picked up a great deal of an older version of the Shotokan system, a great deal of the Goju system, a long term commitment to the study of Yang Tai Chi Chaun, an overview of various Northern Chinese systems, as well as much other information on aikido, and other arts.
I've never pretended that any of that made me an expert in those systems, on the other hand it gave me insight into how they were constructed, the approaches those instructors used for their classes, and a breadth of knowledge that was not avaiable to me concerning the Isshirnyu system. Also when I was judging those system kata in open tournaments, I had a stronger standard from each system in which to evaluate their performance.
As the years passed and I did my best to retain that knowledge, and those skills, they did have an impact on my Isshinryu. I began to understand how much was common across the differing systems, and how those differing training approaches were also within my core system.
For example today I spend a great deal of time finding the aikido and tai chi chaun within Okinawan systems, among other areas of study. If I had not received the instruction in those areas, and worked at them for long years, I would not have seen the obvious parallels to Okinawan Karate.
So all study can have a positive long term impact on one's training, provided one spends the time to actually build up those new skills and then try and apply them to one's system.
On the other hand, I don't feel a student has to do this. It simply is one alternative.
I didn't pick one system, and keep moving on after a few months or years. I first had some solid knowledge of my original system, and never stepped away from its practice. Each additional training, became a greater responsiblity to address in my own training.
I didn't try to mix and match the instruction based on short term study. Instead I did my best to practice each study in its own dimension. Then when I began to make some minor long term progress in understanding those systems, the fact there were common areas in my original system only enhanced its study.
Today I am simply an Isshinryu and a Tai Chi Chaun instructor of very minor note. On occassion I offer some of these studies to my students to allow them similar experiences.
In the long run we train until we cannot move any longer. We will slow and weaken, but perhaps our knowledge will still expand our capabilities as we decline.
------------------
Victor Smith
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Jack of many or master of one.
Colin
We may not be that far apart. When I think about it, I do indeed spend the majority of my time in one art.
But in order to investigate another art, there must be a period of immersion. You cannot really learn a language without immersing yourself in the culture with a "speak or don't eat" mindset. Similarly, you cannot really assimilate another artform without a similar period of immersion and dedicated study.
I was in the bookstore the other day reading one of the martial arts periodicals. The name of the particular magazine escapes me, but the focus was "mixed martial arts," although the emphasis seemed to be more on the grappling arts. I presume this is a contemporary way to describe how some prepare for these NHB competitions. In it was an article and some editorials about Pride 13. The gist of the review was that striking was back. Multiple participants, including one of the famous Gracie brothers, were KOed by bread-and-butter strikes.
One of the fights was reviewed, and they talked about how a particular striking-oriented participant conducted his match. As the grappler charged, the striker used many of the standard grappling methods (like sprawling) to avoid the takedown. When the opportunity arose, boom - the strike came and the fight was over. So...what's with this reversal of fortune? It seems that when the first few UFC championships came about, the grapplers knew what the strikers were going to do (and trained for such), but not the other way around. The strikers had an inbred, better-than-thou mindset. The results spoke for themselves. Did the strikers need to lose their base? Absolutely not. But what is apparent is that they trained diligently in the methods of their opponents.
It is a lot like when I was teaching in the late 70s/early 80s and TKD (Jhoon Rhee variety) was king in our local market. One of my early accomplishments was to choreograph a kicking form for my students. I didn't really expect my students to master the spinning hook kick to the head (although a few were able to). All I wanted was a situation where we knew what they were going to do and not the reverse. I just needed a few headhunters floating around in my sparring classes. The students then learned to use their own methods (quite good I might add) to master their defenses against the almighty foot. The approach served us well.
In other cases, I find that studying a sister style has opened my mind to the meaning of techniques in my own system. There is a famous crane posture at the end of seisan kata. Over the years, I've heard some of the most ridiculous explanations for what the "saluting hand" was all about. Somehow, I couldn't picture myself applying this nonsense when the drunken 300 pound a-hole on the football team decided to get out of control at a fraternity party. Well I noted a similar posture in tsuken$hitahaku no sai, hamahiga no tonfa, and a crane form taught to me by a Fuzhou master. And then one day a boxing instructor taught me his version of the block to a roundhouse punch. When I looked at the multiple variations on a theme, it all started to fit together much better. Do I box now? Not any more. Do I do the sai or tonfa kata? Only when I can find a student dedicated enough to branch out. But the knowledge is there, and my foundation is stronger for it. This is but one of many, many examples.
Anyhow, I think we agree in principle.
- Bill
We may not be that far apart. When I think about it, I do indeed spend the majority of my time in one art.
But in order to investigate another art, there must be a period of immersion. You cannot really learn a language without immersing yourself in the culture with a "speak or don't eat" mindset. Similarly, you cannot really assimilate another artform without a similar period of immersion and dedicated study.
I was in the bookstore the other day reading one of the martial arts periodicals. The name of the particular magazine escapes me, but the focus was "mixed martial arts," although the emphasis seemed to be more on the grappling arts. I presume this is a contemporary way to describe how some prepare for these NHB competitions. In it was an article and some editorials about Pride 13. The gist of the review was that striking was back. Multiple participants, including one of the famous Gracie brothers, were KOed by bread-and-butter strikes.
One of the fights was reviewed, and they talked about how a particular striking-oriented participant conducted his match. As the grappler charged, the striker used many of the standard grappling methods (like sprawling) to avoid the takedown. When the opportunity arose, boom - the strike came and the fight was over. So...what's with this reversal of fortune? It seems that when the first few UFC championships came about, the grapplers knew what the strikers were going to do (and trained for such), but not the other way around. The strikers had an inbred, better-than-thou mindset. The results spoke for themselves. Did the strikers need to lose their base? Absolutely not. But what is apparent is that they trained diligently in the methods of their opponents.
It is a lot like when I was teaching in the late 70s/early 80s and TKD (Jhoon Rhee variety) was king in our local market. One of my early accomplishments was to choreograph a kicking form for my students. I didn't really expect my students to master the spinning hook kick to the head (although a few were able to). All I wanted was a situation where we knew what they were going to do and not the reverse. I just needed a few headhunters floating around in my sparring classes. The students then learned to use their own methods (quite good I might add) to master their defenses against the almighty foot. The approach served us well.
In other cases, I find that studying a sister style has opened my mind to the meaning of techniques in my own system. There is a famous crane posture at the end of seisan kata. Over the years, I've heard some of the most ridiculous explanations for what the "saluting hand" was all about. Somehow, I couldn't picture myself applying this nonsense when the drunken 300 pound a-hole on the football team decided to get out of control at a fraternity party. Well I noted a similar posture in tsuken$hitahaku no sai, hamahiga no tonfa, and a crane form taught to me by a Fuzhou master. And then one day a boxing instructor taught me his version of the block to a roundhouse punch. When I looked at the multiple variations on a theme, it all started to fit together much better. Do I box now? Not any more. Do I do the sai or tonfa kata? Only when I can find a student dedicated enough to branch out. But the knowledge is there, and my foundation is stronger for it. This is but one of many, many examples.
Anyhow, I think we agree in principle.
- Bill
