<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:
I used to be like many of the TCM folks, and think this was the mystical energy stuff. Now...I think I understand much better, and it isn't really all that difficult a concept. It's like the difference between using your hand as a jackhammer as opposed to a wet noodle. The "hardness" of the weapon is to come from structural strength as opposed to surface conditioning. But you really need to feel it to understand.
- Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Interesting that you have come to that conclusion. Taika Oyata has been teaching that to his students for twenty years but some people still don't get it. Taika is rather disparaging when people bring up the subject of "ki" or "chi" because he says that they just don't understand what it is. For him, it's something in everyday life and not something supernatural. As I said on another topic he told me once that everybody has it. So it's not about how to get it or develop it but rather how to use it. The "jackhammer" analogy is really a good one. Taika teaches how one should vibrate the hand (closed or open) when using it while protecting oneself and others. By keeping the hand relaxed (soft) and then tightening (hard) upon striking with it, a practitioner can maximize the efficiency of the strike.
and you also wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:
These unique weapons are not Okinawan karate standards; they are special tools used mostly by the southern Chinese warriors. They came from a brand of fighting different from what we typically see in the "striking" arts of Okinawa. My personal bias is that the original system may have been something in-between a striking and grappling art - the very thing that the "mixed martial artists" strive for.
- Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Taika Oyata says that one of his teachers was a man named Wakinaguri no tanmei. He was of Chinese descent and practiced a style of martial arts heavily influenced by Chinese systems. It was this teacher that showed him ways to move his body and strike with his hands in the manner that you describe. Taika said that this man's fingers were of all one length from years of practice and could strike as hard with his hands open or closed. Wakinaguri showed him a way to cover his body that Oyata could never find a way penetrate his defense. Taika still hasn't discovered how he could do it. This teacher also taught Taika some of his first lessons in what Taika now calls tuite-jitsu and kyusho-jitsu. Taika considers what he is teaching now to be the way that you described as the original system to have been.
Bill, I didn't get a reply from you on the Videos topic. I assume that you haven't had time to get back to that one. Please take a look if you get a chance. Thanks.
Regards,
Dale
[This message has been edited by Dale Knepp (edited June 12, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Dale Knepp (edited June 12, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Dale Knepp (edited June 12, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Dale Knepp (edited June 12, 2001).]
The evolution of training
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Dale Knepp
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Bill Glasheen
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The evolution of training
Dale
The video you spoke of was produced by a small group of folks in Northern Virginia. I e-mailed the guy after you posted. I haven't heard back from him, which is strange since he usually responds right away. He must be on vacation.
I'll let you know when I get the information.
- Bill
The video you spoke of was produced by a small group of folks in Northern Virginia. I e-mailed the guy after you posted. I haven't heard back from him, which is strange since he usually responds right away. He must be on vacation.
I'll let you know when I get the information.
- Bill
The evolution of training
Actually, in GEM's Uechi Ryu Karate Do there are TWO stories that involve Kanbun Uechi jumping on an opponent's back. I think, in fact, there are only these two stories of him in any fight in there. So where the heck is it in kata? 
)
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Bill Glasheen
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The evolution of training
In American Gladiator, I remember an interview of one of the beefy warriors where he was answering questions that were sent in by the audience. One question asked the warrior how much he could bench. The response was interesting. He commented that his maximum was xxx pounds, but he had been concentrating more lately on the quality of his workouts rather than the amount of weight he could push in this weight training standard.
Many tales are told of the feats of great masters like Uechi Kanbun, Uechi Kanei, and Tomoyose Ryuko. It is well known that these three had a phenomenal ability to perform the trademark techniques of the system - the shoken, boshiken, hiraken, and sokusen. It is said that when Uechi Kanei visited the states in the sixties, that he would go to students and squeeze their swollen, improperly trained knuckles. The grimace he was able to elicit spoke volumes of the false strength that the student had attained. Uechi Kanei spoke of the need to develop internal rather than external strength with these weapons. I used to be like many of the TCM folks, and think this was the mystical energy stuff. Now...I think I understand much better, and it isn't really all that difficult a concept. It's like the difference between using your hand as a jackhammer as opposed to a wet noodle. The "hardness" of the weapon is to come from structural strength as opposed to surface conditioning. But you really need to feel it to understand.
These unique weapons are not Okinawan karate standards; they are special tools used mostly by the southern Chinese warriors. They came from a brand of fighting different from what we typically see in the "striking" arts of Okinawa. My personal bias is that the original system may have been something in-between a striking and grappling art - the very thing that the "mixed martial artists" strive for. I don't believe Kanbun fought "loaded for bear" from a distance. I believe his methods were on the inside, and much more sinister. One story of his exploits speaks of him jumping onto the back of an opponent. Isn't it strange how the streetwise methods consistently evolve to a narrow set of methods in spite of our efforts to the contrary?
I don't know if it's enlightenment, just another place in time, or maybe just sinus problems.
I gain a lot from a method I employ where I train in cycles. About every 12 weeks or so, I take a break from personal training, rethink things, and start again. I intentionally change things around to avoid the kinds of injuries that happen from repeated stress. Some of my greatest epiphanies come forth in those first few weeks of trying something new. Lately, the new methods seem to be evolving around bringing in those hands and feet. And surprisingly enough, they are responding in spite of my "middle age." I sometimes wonder why I didn't do some of these things earlier. I sometimes wonder why others didn't spend the time in their own teaching and methods - way back to Okinawa (with a few notable exceptions).
I may not have found the soul of this style - whatever that is - but I certainly have found an interesting character.
- Bill
Many tales are told of the feats of great masters like Uechi Kanbun, Uechi Kanei, and Tomoyose Ryuko. It is well known that these three had a phenomenal ability to perform the trademark techniques of the system - the shoken, boshiken, hiraken, and sokusen. It is said that when Uechi Kanei visited the states in the sixties, that he would go to students and squeeze their swollen, improperly trained knuckles. The grimace he was able to elicit spoke volumes of the false strength that the student had attained. Uechi Kanei spoke of the need to develop internal rather than external strength with these weapons. I used to be like many of the TCM folks, and think this was the mystical energy stuff. Now...I think I understand much better, and it isn't really all that difficult a concept. It's like the difference between using your hand as a jackhammer as opposed to a wet noodle. The "hardness" of the weapon is to come from structural strength as opposed to surface conditioning. But you really need to feel it to understand.
These unique weapons are not Okinawan karate standards; they are special tools used mostly by the southern Chinese warriors. They came from a brand of fighting different from what we typically see in the "striking" arts of Okinawa. My personal bias is that the original system may have been something in-between a striking and grappling art - the very thing that the "mixed martial artists" strive for. I don't believe Kanbun fought "loaded for bear" from a distance. I believe his methods were on the inside, and much more sinister. One story of his exploits speaks of him jumping onto the back of an opponent. Isn't it strange how the streetwise methods consistently evolve to a narrow set of methods in spite of our efforts to the contrary?
I don't know if it's enlightenment, just another place in time, or maybe just sinus problems.
I gain a lot from a method I employ where I train in cycles. About every 12 weeks or so, I take a break from personal training, rethink things, and start again. I intentionally change things around to avoid the kinds of injuries that happen from repeated stress. Some of my greatest epiphanies come forth in those first few weeks of trying something new. Lately, the new methods seem to be evolving around bringing in those hands and feet. And surprisingly enough, they are responding in spite of my "middle age." I sometimes wonder why I didn't do some of these things earlier. I sometimes wonder why others didn't spend the time in their own teaching and methods - way back to Okinawa (with a few notable exceptions).I may not have found the soul of this style - whatever that is - but I certainly have found an interesting character.
- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
The evolution of training
Ian
Perhaps it is a poorly translated figure of speech.
Sanseiryu has many interesting elbow techniques followed by turns that make me think they may be interpreted as neck restraint techniques and other interesting grappling methods. And of course we do grab a lot in this system, no? The one thing that is clear is that Kanbun didn't "punch the guys out" (so to write).
But in the end we never really know what happened in a fight unless we witness it. Sometimes even the participants can't give you a clear assessment of what happened.
- Bill
Perhaps it is a poorly translated figure of speech.
Sanseiryu has many interesting elbow techniques followed by turns that make me think they may be interpreted as neck restraint techniques and other interesting grappling methods. And of course we do grab a lot in this system, no? The one thing that is clear is that Kanbun didn't "punch the guys out" (so to write).
But in the end we never really know what happened in a fight unless we witness it. Sometimes even the participants can't give you a clear assessment of what happened.
- Bill
