In John Lennon's song Imagine, he speaks of a world without religion. To some, this would be blasphemous. Oh yea? Consider the violence between Catholics and Protestants...
<A HREF="http://www.timesdispatch.com/frontpage/MGBBMVWV9RC.html" TARGET=_blank>Grenade misses schoolgirls
Both sides denounce violence in Belfast</A>
and then consider the violence between Arabs and Jews...
Arabs unleash attack wave
It makes you wonder what this religion thing is all about.
To start with, I cannot fathom a religion that teaches young boys that there will be a special place in heaven for them if they give their life up for Allah. And they gave Jim Jones a hard time... That's nothing compared to the human wave attacks in the Iran/Iraq war. Then pit that against the Israeli penchant for ALWAYS exacting revenge. Fine...you now have a recipe for generations of permanent violence.
Being Irish with ancestors from Cork County, I naturally have feelings about the conflict there. Frankly the British have no business in the country, and they created the problem generations ago when they forced waves of Protestants to settle in Northern Ireland. And so now they are there...and you have another recipe for generations of conflict. It's the "outlawed" IRA against the "outlawed" UDA. Now we have gangs of thugs attacking 4-11 year old schoolgirls, to make a point about their own lack of safety. Great!
Man's inhumanity to man isn't a new subject. Ethnic groups have been exterminating each other with even more brutality for generations. And how is one to respond? It seems that the only response in many cases is even more grotesque brutality. Collectively we act horrified when we see such senseless violence. But is it really senseless? In many cases, inhumane treatment festers for long periods of time...and ultimately rears its ugly head. We shouldn't be so shocked at what is happening in those two countries. Could I engage in activity like this if my situation weren't as comfortable and privileged? I'm afraid all of us have that dark side to some extent.
Pride, religion, ethnic identity, a sense of justice...they all are good to some extent. But they can surely be carried to an extreme.
- Bill
Violence begats violence
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Bill Glasheen
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Bill Glasheen
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Violence begats violence
Lee
Religion shouldn't be a shield against criticism for bad behavior. It's no different than wrapping yourself in a flag to justify inhumanity.
The nice thing about this thread is that I didn't spare any of the major religions we know of, and the same can be said for your critique. We wouldn't want anyone feeling left out, now, would we?
It's the behavior - in the end - that we must hold people accountable for.
- Bill
Religion shouldn't be a shield against criticism for bad behavior. It's no different than wrapping yourself in a flag to justify inhumanity.
The nice thing about this thread is that I didn't spare any of the major religions we know of, and the same can be said for your critique. We wouldn't want anyone feeling left out, now, would we?
It's the behavior - in the end - that we must hold people accountable for.- Bill
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Ted Dinwiddie
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Violence begats violence
I have always found it interesting that (according to the Bible I grew up reading) Jesus spent more time associating with people considered "undesirables." Yet, many "good" CHRISTians are completely intolerant of anyone who does not look through the same keyhole they do.
"God has no religion" - Mahatma Ghandi
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ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
"God has no religion" - Mahatma Ghandi
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ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
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Ted Dinwiddie
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Violence begats violence
"Pride, religion, ethnic identity, a sense of justice...they all are good to some extent."
Until they lead to intolerance of differing views.
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ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
Until they lead to intolerance of differing views.
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ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
Violence begats violence
Ted-sama,
You said it better than I could, ever.
DISCLAIMER - The following is an intellectual exercise and should not be taken as a slam at any religion or belief system.
If one wants proof of the existence of the Adversary, one only needs to see what has been done in the name of religion over the history of man since the coming of the momotheistic forms, such as Christianity, Judiasm, Islam and the like.
If the Adversary (and this is a hypothetical comment, not necessarily my own belief system) is indeed the great Deceiver, then one must wonder if religion hasn't been, in many instances, perverted to his cause?
Think of all of the Holy Wars in history, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Jihads, the Taoists vs the Buddhists, the extermination of the religion of Mithras, to the systematic destruction of the cultures and religions of the Native Peoples of the Americas and Austrailia to the gas attack in the subway in Japan, the Holocaust and the fact that the office of Grand Inquisitor was never abolished (the job title on the door was changed, but the office still exists). the Israeli attacks, the Moslem attacks against Israelis, the "troubles" in Ireland all stem from religious intolerance.
When you get right down to it, the monotheistic religions have had a pretty poor track record of maintaining their peaceful intentions.
Many of them went from tolerance to intolerance to outright xenophobia and genocide.
For most of those religions, working for a "Prince of Peace" or "Benevolent Bringer of the Word," or whatever, they sure haven't kept to the point.
Maybe there IS an Adversary who is using the concept of religion as a tool to further his agendas?
Just a provocative post, not meant to offend (which it will probably do anyway) but more as an exercise in looking at these situations from "outside of the box."
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
You said it better than I could, ever.
DISCLAIMER - The following is an intellectual exercise and should not be taken as a slam at any religion or belief system.
If one wants proof of the existence of the Adversary, one only needs to see what has been done in the name of religion over the history of man since the coming of the momotheistic forms, such as Christianity, Judiasm, Islam and the like.
If the Adversary (and this is a hypothetical comment, not necessarily my own belief system) is indeed the great Deceiver, then one must wonder if religion hasn't been, in many instances, perverted to his cause?
Think of all of the Holy Wars in history, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Jihads, the Taoists vs the Buddhists, the extermination of the religion of Mithras, to the systematic destruction of the cultures and religions of the Native Peoples of the Americas and Austrailia to the gas attack in the subway in Japan, the Holocaust and the fact that the office of Grand Inquisitor was never abolished (the job title on the door was changed, but the office still exists). the Israeli attacks, the Moslem attacks against Israelis, the "troubles" in Ireland all stem from religious intolerance.
When you get right down to it, the monotheistic religions have had a pretty poor track record of maintaining their peaceful intentions.
Many of them went from tolerance to intolerance to outright xenophobia and genocide.
For most of those religions, working for a "Prince of Peace" or "Benevolent Bringer of the Word," or whatever, they sure haven't kept to the point.
Maybe there IS an Adversary who is using the concept of religion as a tool to further his agendas?
Just a provocative post, not meant to offend (which it will probably do anyway) but more as an exercise in looking at these situations from "outside of the box."
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
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Bill Glasheen
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Violence begats violence
Speaking of such...I just heard that two planes flew into the world trade center. From all accounts, it was a deliberate act.
I hate it when I'm right on the money like that...ahead of time. This is spooky.
There will be payback, I'm sure.
- Bill
I hate it when I'm right on the money like that...ahead of time. This is spooky.
There will be payback, I'm sure.
- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
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Ted Dinwiddie
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- Location: Charlottesville,VA,USA
Violence begats violence
Payback to whom?
Violence begats violence
Today is sure to be recorded as one of the saddest days in the history of the United States. The devastating events in New York and Washington, the loss of innocent civilian lives, rescue and military personnel, and the destruction and terror visited on our country today will touch each and every one of us in some way.
It will affect our nation for years to come.
My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of those who died today. Let’s all take a moment to reflect on this tragedy and what it will mean to our lives.
As the good citizens that martial artists are known to be, let’s each find ways to be supportive of the members of our community who are experiencing the loss of loved ones in this national tragedy.
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Len
It will affect our nation for years to come.
My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of those who died today. Let’s all take a moment to reflect on this tragedy and what it will mean to our lives.
As the good citizens that martial artists are known to be, let’s each find ways to be supportive of the members of our community who are experiencing the loss of loved ones in this national tragedy.
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Len
Violence begats violence
As an act of solidarity and also to honor our citizens who have died at the hands of these terrorists...<font color="blue">Please ask everyone you know to turn on their headlights during each day that it takes to find each and everyone in the rubble of New York and Washington.</font>
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Len
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Len
Violence begats violence
Barukh Dayan Emet: Blessed is the true Judge. This is the traditional Hebrew response to hearing of a death or great tragedy - or both.....
Tomorrow, I am giving blood.
Tonight is my son's and my TKD lesson at our local Jewish Community Center. I suspect it will be memorable.
I may check in with the local recruiters to see if there is any place for a 52 year old civilian attorney with no previous military service.
This weekend I will finally get off my @$$ and get my CCDW training.
I expect the High Holidays to be different this year....
But in our zeal to defend our country, let us not become our enemies. We do not yet know who the perpetrators are with certainty; remember there was a great deal of anti-Arab sentiment after Oklahoma city prior to discovering that it was McVeigh, et al.
One of the more shameful lessons from which we should learn is what we did to the Nisei and Sansei during World War II. Save your anger and retribution for those who actually deserve it by their actions; their actions cannot be assumed from their parentage.
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited September 11, 2001).]
Tomorrow, I am giving blood.
Tonight is my son's and my TKD lesson at our local Jewish Community Center. I suspect it will be memorable.
I may check in with the local recruiters to see if there is any place for a 52 year old civilian attorney with no previous military service.
This weekend I will finally get off my @$$ and get my CCDW training.
I expect the High Holidays to be different this year....
But in our zeal to defend our country, let us not become our enemies. We do not yet know who the perpetrators are with certainty; remember there was a great deal of anti-Arab sentiment after Oklahoma city prior to discovering that it was McVeigh, et al.
One of the more shameful lessons from which we should learn is what we did to the Nisei and Sansei during World War II. Save your anger and retribution for those who actually deserve it by their actions; their actions cannot be assumed from their parentage.
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited September 11, 2001).]
Violence begats violence
September eleventh... 911 - a day that will be remembered for ever.
Still no one has claimed responsibility.
It seems people are afraid to estimate casulities.
Still no one has claimed responsibility.
It seems people are afraid to estimate casulities.
Violence begats violence
It makes you wonder if this is the end of the attacks.
I pray that it is so.
If not however, the next targets may be Los Angeles or possibly the Kennedy Space Center -40 miles away from where I am typing this.
It seems that since the attacks occurred within minutes of each other, that the blow to the pentagon was the final strike.
May God be with us all.
I pray that it is so.
If not however, the next targets may be Los Angeles or possibly the Kennedy Space Center -40 miles away from where I am typing this.
It seems that since the attacks occurred within minutes of each other, that the blow to the pentagon was the final strike.
May God be with us all.
Violence begats violence
911 forever,
I'm now haunted that today was chosen just for that reason. September 11th. It strikes me they chose it to level a lesson we cannot forget for every time we need emergency help they will be laughing..
Perhaps they need to recall another slogan, "Never Forgive and Never Forget"
Victor Smith
I'm now haunted that today was chosen just for that reason. September 11th. It strikes me they chose it to level a lesson we cannot forget for every time we need emergency help they will be laughing..
Perhaps they need to recall another slogan, "Never Forgive and Never Forget"
Victor Smith
Violence begats violence
All thoughts to those who have and are suffering. May they all find Peace
