Kanbun Uechi and the Kojo family system

Dale Knepp · Post by **Dale Knepp** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 7:23 pm

Hello,

I came across a reference to Kanbun Uechi having studied with a member of the Kojo family in Fukien, China prior to training in Pangainoon. I was wondering what if anyone knows more about this reference. What was the connection between the Uechi and Kojo families and did this relationship continue or was it only a short term one?

Cordially,

Dale Knepp

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:32 pm

I've never heard of this, Dale. Please tell me your source. Thanks.

- Bill

f.Channell · Post by **f.Channell** » Thu Oct 04, 2001 10:50 pm

Shortly after their arrival Kanbun and Tokusaburo began studying in the Kugusku school, located in the migrant Okinawan community. The school was run by an Okinawan named Koho (Kojyo) Kojo, who later founded Kygyo Ryu. He is believed to be the first foreigner to open up a dojo in China. His assistant was a man named Makabei Udon.
(Allen Dollars book page 58)
f.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Oct 04, 2001 11:10 pm

Thanks, "f.", you beat me to the punch.

I was going to suggest Alan Dollar's book because a section of it is a "translation" of Kanei Uechi's History of Okinawan Karate. This would be the most reliable written source of information that I can think of. To do any better, you have to have a copy of that original, rare book, and be able to read Japanese.

The problem with Alan's book (and most martial arts books in general) is that it isn't documented all that well. One can't always validate the original source of the information. The paragraph f. Channeli cites is one of several on that page referencing the subject. It isn't entirely clear, but it appears that this part of the book comes from interviews with Seiko Toyama. So if you want further information, you may also check that source. For starters, check out the following website.

Okinawa KarateDo UechiRyu Zankai Information Center

- Bill

f.Channell · Post by **f.Channell** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 2:34 am

Possibly the reason why there isn't much written is because Kanbun Uechi didn't evidently get along well with Makabei and left this dojo and sought out another. I believe however Sensei Toyama is the source of this information and possibly he may reveal more of this connection.
f.

Dale Knepp · Post by **Dale Knepp** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 5:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:
I've never heard of this, Dale. Please tell me your source. Thanks.

- Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bill,

Actually, I heard about this on the e-budo bulletin board from Joe Swift, an American living in Japan, who is becoming a good source of primary source documents for Okinawan karate. The following is a slightly edited version of his post:

The dojo you are speaking of was the Kogusuku (Kojo) Dojo in Fuzhou, where Uechi Kanbun is said to have trained before he began training under Zhou Zihe. Kogusuku Taite and Makabe Choken are the people that are said to have taught Uechi there.
Mabuni did not meet with Uechi until much later, in Wakayama, on the Japanese mainland. Mabuni and Konishi Yasuhiro visited Uechi in Wakayama and it is claimed that the ****oryu kata Shinpa was created based on this meeting.
Konishi described this in 1955, but Mabuni wrote in 1934 of visiting Uechi, so they must have met with Uechi pre-1934...
Anyway, just what I recalled off the top of my head.
Joe Swift

Kojo's Okinawan pronunciation has variously been romanized as Kogusuku, Kugushuku, Kogushiku among others. Recently, I have seen that the family may have changed the pronunciation of the family name to Koshiro perhaps to sound more Japanese. Depending on how one decides to read and pronounce the characters in this name any of them may be correct.

I have since then and after posting my initial inquiry done some more browsing and found two Uechi-ryu website that confirm Swift's statement.

This one romanizes the spelling as Kugusku which may be a typo. http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/SportFit/JNS/uechiryu/uechihis.html

This one actually includes the rumor as to why Uechi stopped training with the Kojo family. http://www.arizonauechi.com/history.html

Do you know any Uechi-ryu historians in your group that might shed some light on this topic?

Regards,

Dale

[This message has been edited by Dale Knepp (edited October 04, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Dale Knepp (edited October 04, 2001).]

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 2:47 pm

Well...might as well include those paragraphs from Alan's book. This answers some of Dale's original questions. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>According to Seiko Toyama, Makabei took immediate notice of Kanbun's superior physique and muscular stomach and became jealous. He foresaw that Kanbun would become a great karate student. Kanbun's lack of formal education and the fact that he spoke with slight lisp, presented an appearance of being slow minded. Makabei ridiculed and criticized the quiet, gentle Uechi in an attempt to drive him out of the dojo. Kanbun soon defiantly quit, although his resolve to learn Chinese martial arts was stronger than ever.

It is unclear if Tokusaburo Matsuda stayed at the Kojo dojo or moved to another. He and Kanbun did learn similar chuan fa systems during their individul stays in China.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

- Secrets of Uechi Ryu Karate, Alan Dollar, pg. 58.

- Bill

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 2:54 pm

From one of the articles linked:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

The rumor continues stating that Kanbun then entered the Kojo dojo at Fuchou but due to a speech impediment, the dojo's Chief Assistant Makabe Udon took him for a fool and nicknamed him Uechi Watabugwa (meaning big belly or good for nothing). Offended by these insults, Kanbun left the dojo and was not seen for three years.

Not sure this is entirely correct. Here is information from Toyama sensei through Zankai:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Kanbun Sensei did the same type of breathing. He practiced his breathing
rhythm with non-karate moves. He practiced to coordinate the slight puff
with motion, and after-motion replenishment of air supply throughout the
day. He turned everything he did into a kata, he practiced constantly,
everything became part of the training for him. People who observed this
(he really didn't care if it was seen) thought he was "trying to talk".
Hence the misconception he had a speech impediment. He didn't.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

** This also goes to the original way of breathing as taught by Kanbun [ breathing with motion, as opposed to the breathing after the thrust we are led to believe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> He spoke seldom during training sessions, but after the day was done he
would speak quite eloquently. He never once stuttered, as far as TOYAMA
Sensei knows. He disliked public speaking only because he felt he would be
misunderstood -- his language was older-style Okinawan (hogen) mixed with
Chinese and Japanese-pronounced Chinese words. He didn't speak Mainland
Japanese very well, so his students learned a smattering of Chinese and lots
of hogen during their studies. TOYAMA Sensei uses the same terms and much
of the same language he learned from Kanbun Sensei. This is why some of the
terms I use are different from those used today -- and some concepts as
well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the early summer of 1897, Uechi Kanbun began his studies in KojoRyu at
the Koshiro Dojo with a fellow Okinawan, Matsudo Tokusaburo (who later
became a famous instructor of KojoRyu Karate), but Kanbun soon had a
falling-out with the instructor, Makabe-Udon (Chief Master Makabe). It
seems that Kanbun was dissatisfied with studying Chinese fighting arts from
an Okinawan! Beside, something about Kanbun left Makabe-Udon ill at ease --
it might have been the penetrating eyes of the young Uechi, or the quiet,
unassuming manner found in the training of the Okinawan Samurai class.
Kanbun's usually-silent demeanor led Makabe-Udon to believe Kanbun was
somewhat mentally deficient. At any rate, Makabe-Udon took every
opportunity to ridicule and insult Kanbun, or to make jests at Kanbun's
expense.

Consequently, Kanbun left the Dojo within about three months. Where he went
and what he did between this departure and his acceptance as a fighting arts
student elsewhere is unknown, but it's generally thought that he spent a few
months searching and watching for a system consistent with his boyhood
dreams -- something that would justify his trip and hardships.

***

Prior to Uechi Kanbun's time, only two Okinawans who were accepted in
Chinese training halls went on to open their own schools in China, and
become quite famous for their skills. They were Higaonna Kanryo, founder of
Naha-Te, and Kojo Kaho, founder of the now nearly-extinct school of KojoRyu.
Master Kojo had studied in Fukien, mastering both his empty-hand system and
Chinese Stick Arts (Chinese Bo). He also studied Confucianism and became
known to the Chinese as "The Samurai Scholar". Master Kojo was the first
Okinawan on record to open a training hall in China (the Koshiro Dojo in
Fuchow). The system of KojoRyu has disappeared from Okinawa, however it is
still preserved and taught by Master Hayashi Shingo at Yudokoro-cho,
Totori-shi (Yudokoro suburb of Totori City, about ninety miles northwest of
Kyoto, Mainland Japan).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------
Van Canna

[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited October 05, 2001).]

Dale Knepp · Post by **Dale Knepp** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 6:01 pm

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for the help in locating further information. You have of course opened several new questions.

I had not heard the name Matsudo Tokusaburo who is claimed to have been a famous instructor of KojoRyu Karate. Is more information available on him or is this more folklore?

I am told that many senior teachers on Okinawa have never heard of the Kojo family or their martial art. Actually, I find this hard to believe as Mark Bishop documents the family fairly extensively in his book. My assumption was that the Kojo family lived in Naha and had a small family school there.

Joe Svinth sent me the address of Shingo Hayashi D.D.S, Mihagino 1-151, Tottori-City
Japan 689.02 that he received from Patrick McCarthy who said that he is "the senior-most exponent of the style under the Kojo family" and "found him very helpful." I assume that he teaches in Japan.

Despite the friction between Kanbun Uechi and Choken Makabe, was there any further relationship between the Uechi family and the Kojo family or did they not associate together at all later?

There is a story told by Seikichi Uehara that indicated that the Motobu family and the Uechi family were connected in some way. Choyu Motobu had Uehara deliver a letter to Kanbun Uechi in Wakayama. Does anyone know anything about this?

The following statement that was quoted is contested by various other sources that claimed that any number of Okinawans went to China for educational exchange that included martial arts training.

"Prior to Uechi Kanbun's time, only two Okinawans who were accepted in Chinese training halls went on to open their own schools in China, and become quite famous for their skills."

Respects,

Dale

[This message has been edited by Dale Knepp (edited October 05, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Dale Knepp (edited October 05, 2001).]