I am in the midst of reading a book by Ron Sieh, a student of Peter Ralston's, called "T'ai Chi Ch'uan The Internal Tradition."
It is a small book but very interesting. There were a few good tidbit quotes that I thought might lead into interesting discussions.
"To be calm in the midst of chaos cannot be accomplished by avoiding chaos." Page 70
"Cultivate groundedness rather than assume what you think is a grounded shape. Feel the ground; relax and stand aligned with gravity." Page 73
"We naturally move very powerfully as anyone (like me) who has walked into table or missed the door can tell you. People study martial arts for years trying to cultivate that kind of power." Page 73
"Behind every technique is the purpose of the technique. While training, this crucial element must not be forgotten. Every situation is ongoing and ever-changing. Sacrificing purpose for technique is a common mistake." Page 78
Rick
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
Moderator: Available
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
Hello Rick,
The ~gentleman~ sounds HORRIBLY "confused"... to put it "politely" <wg>!
What the ~gentleman~ is saying, appears to be incoherent gibberish to me, to choose one word to describe it hummmngh... "INANE" would be my choice. (inane adj. Lacking sense or substance, silly or empty)
Any of this can be said, FAR more directly and honed EASILY w/o all the babble <gentle shrug>.
And yes, I am ~holding back~ ; )...
What on earth do you think he's attempting to say : / ???
------------------
Sincerely,
Jeff
~Self-Defense~: Learning how to get out of one's own way! Kara-te: Learning how to smile in the face of all things...
[This message has been edited by Ronin1966 (edited February 07, 2002).]
The ~gentleman~ sounds HORRIBLY "confused"... to put it "politely" <wg>!
What the ~gentleman~ is saying, appears to be incoherent gibberish to me, to choose one word to describe it hummmngh... "INANE" would be my choice. (inane adj. Lacking sense or substance, silly or empty)
Any of this can be said, FAR more directly and honed EASILY w/o all the babble <gentle shrug>.
And yes, I am ~holding back~ ; )...
What on earth do you think he's attempting to say : / ???
------------------
Sincerely,
Jeff
~Self-Defense~: Learning how to get out of one's own way! Kara-te: Learning how to smile in the face of all things...
[This message has been edited by Ronin1966 (edited February 07, 2002).]
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akuma_shogun
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:01 am
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
I think that what is being said, is that some people look to far for a certain thing when it can be found in front of them. Just think about things.....the quotes are in depth, and logical...inane?...the have a substance..all words are poetry...listin to them
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
Makes sense to me and these type of books inspire "thinking out of the box". Will seek this book ..thanks
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Rick Wilson
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
Jeff:
Thanks for the comments this thread didn't generate much until you jumped in. However, I disagree with you on this one. I do not think he is confused but dead on. I think these quotes are very informative. They do take some interpretation much like the Taji Classics.
Here are briefly the interpretations that I derive from them:
1) "To be calm in the midst of chaos cannot be accomplished by avoiding chaos." Page 70
This is an issue Van Sensei has been driving at for years. The quiet comfort of the dojo with only prearranged routines and co-operative partners makes it easy to be calm and perform well. But in the street with the chemical cocktail pounding through you, well then what? If you do not prepare for the intensity of the street (avoiding chaos) then you will not be able to handle the chemical cocktail when it hits (be calm in the midst of chaos).
2) "Cultivate groundedness rather than assume what you think is a grounded shape. Feel the ground; relax and stand aligned with gravity." Page 73
Bill once posted on this forum how some people feel Sanchin position should be solid like a statue. Yet a solid object is easily tipped over. (Did I get that right Bill?) I have seen this many times you easily move them around but they "maintain" Sanchin position (even if you are now behind them) and feel they are grounded because they are in what "think is a grounded shape."
Bob Campbell once posted how the toughest Sanchin check he ever had was Uechi Kanei Sensei simply pushing and pressing on him to test his groundedness.
So to me ridged rock like Sanchin's are one interpretation but they are not grounded, to do that you must "feel the ground; relax and stand aligned with gravity."
3) "We naturally move very powerfully as anyone (like me) who has walked into table or missed the door can tell you. People study martial arts for years trying to cultivate that kind of power." Page 73
This gets to the very heart of realization and alignment. It should be natural. No time to go into details but a nice relaxed mass kick is far more effective that someone trying too hard.
4) "Behind every technique is the purpose of the technique. While training, this crucial element must not be forgotten. Every situation is ongoing and ever-changing. Sacrificing purpose for technique is a common mistake." Page 78
Big one for me. What I try to do is teach principles. The principles are demonstrated through the use of techniques, but the techniques are just information delivery tools. Some I have met have focused on the technique without understanding the principles that make that technique work. By failing to do so they cannot take those principles and apply them to other situations. They know how to escape from THIS grab, but heaven help them if you grab them a different way or change the angle of attack. Unless of course that is one of the 10,000 techniques they have learned
.
That is my take anyway,
Rick
Thanks for the comments this thread didn't generate much until you jumped in. However, I disagree with you on this one. I do not think he is confused but dead on. I think these quotes are very informative. They do take some interpretation much like the Taji Classics.
Here are briefly the interpretations that I derive from them:
1) "To be calm in the midst of chaos cannot be accomplished by avoiding chaos." Page 70
This is an issue Van Sensei has been driving at for years. The quiet comfort of the dojo with only prearranged routines and co-operative partners makes it easy to be calm and perform well. But in the street with the chemical cocktail pounding through you, well then what? If you do not prepare for the intensity of the street (avoiding chaos) then you will not be able to handle the chemical cocktail when it hits (be calm in the midst of chaos).
2) "Cultivate groundedness rather than assume what you think is a grounded shape. Feel the ground; relax and stand aligned with gravity." Page 73
Bill once posted on this forum how some people feel Sanchin position should be solid like a statue. Yet a solid object is easily tipped over. (Did I get that right Bill?) I have seen this many times you easily move them around but they "maintain" Sanchin position (even if you are now behind them) and feel they are grounded because they are in what "think is a grounded shape."
Bob Campbell once posted how the toughest Sanchin check he ever had was Uechi Kanei Sensei simply pushing and pressing on him to test his groundedness.
So to me ridged rock like Sanchin's are one interpretation but they are not grounded, to do that you must "feel the ground; relax and stand aligned with gravity."
3) "We naturally move very powerfully as anyone (like me) who has walked into table or missed the door can tell you. People study martial arts for years trying to cultivate that kind of power." Page 73
This gets to the very heart of realization and alignment. It should be natural. No time to go into details but a nice relaxed mass kick is far more effective that someone trying too hard.
4) "Behind every technique is the purpose of the technique. While training, this crucial element must not be forgotten. Every situation is ongoing and ever-changing. Sacrificing purpose for technique is a common mistake." Page 78
Big one for me. What I try to do is teach principles. The principles are demonstrated through the use of techniques, but the techniques are just information delivery tools. Some I have met have focused on the technique without understanding the principles that make that technique work. By failing to do so they cannot take those principles and apply them to other situations. They know how to escape from THIS grab, but heaven help them if you grab them a different way or change the angle of attack. Unless of course that is one of the 10,000 techniques they have learned
.That is my take anyway,
Rick
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akuma_shogun
- Posts: 21
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A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
Have no idea what is being talked about "groundedness" but...for some odd reason...it makes sense...I thnk you for a post like this....making people think is a hard thing to do...but looks as though you are doing....I hope that this one willl go on..can you give more quotes?
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Malcolm Wagner
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Maurepas, La., USA
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
"To seek safety, one must go to the heart of danger."
Bruce Leroy
Bruce Leroy
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akuma_shogun
- Posts: 21
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A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
like the eye of the storm...its always calmest in the center of a tempest
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
Ronin-sama,
Maybe this will help. Maybe not. Different opinions are what make these forums so great after all!
"To be calm in the midst of chaos cannot be accomplished by avoiding chaos." Page 70
One cannot be calm in the midst of a fight while trying to avoid the fight at the same time. One must become a part of the fight, otherwise there are two conflicts going on - one internal (I have to avoid this fight - but I AM fighting) and one external the physical fight itself. The first (internal) fight takes away energy, focus and concentration from the reality of the second fight. Such distraction can make you nervous, distracted and get you hurt.
"Cultivate groundedness rather than assume what you think is a grounded shape. Feel the ground; relax and stand aligned with gravity." Page 73
Groundedness is NOT immobility. Groundedness is the ability to control one's body in such a way that the body will not be overbalanced and can move naturally and with power.
"We naturally move very powerfully as anyone (like me) who has walked into table or missed the door can tell you. People study martial arts for years trying to cultivate that kind of power." Page 73
No kidding! Natural objects that we walk or run into can do us as much or more damage than an opponent often can. Naturalness of action IS power. When we go against the natural way of moving, we rob outselves of power and focus. By not moving naturally, but thinking "I must move THIS way" (which is not natural to us), you rob yourself of power as well as intent.
"Behind every technique is the purpose of the technique. While training, this crucial element must not be forgotten. Every situation is ongoing and ever-changing. Sacrificing purpose for technique is a common mistake." Page 78
"Without purpose - technique is an empty dance." - Lee Darrow, 1968
The whole idea of any given technique is to accomplish something. Sometimes a technique has more than one purpose and that may change with the circumstances of its application, but purpose is the key to good technique. Isn't this what bunkai (interpretation) is all about? (honest question, not an attack)
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Sandan (semi-retired)
Maybe this will help. Maybe not. Different opinions are what make these forums so great after all!
"To be calm in the midst of chaos cannot be accomplished by avoiding chaos." Page 70
One cannot be calm in the midst of a fight while trying to avoid the fight at the same time. One must become a part of the fight, otherwise there are two conflicts going on - one internal (I have to avoid this fight - but I AM fighting) and one external the physical fight itself. The first (internal) fight takes away energy, focus and concentration from the reality of the second fight. Such distraction can make you nervous, distracted and get you hurt.
"Cultivate groundedness rather than assume what you think is a grounded shape. Feel the ground; relax and stand aligned with gravity." Page 73
Groundedness is NOT immobility. Groundedness is the ability to control one's body in such a way that the body will not be overbalanced and can move naturally and with power.
"We naturally move very powerfully as anyone (like me) who has walked into table or missed the door can tell you. People study martial arts for years trying to cultivate that kind of power." Page 73
No kidding! Natural objects that we walk or run into can do us as much or more damage than an opponent often can. Naturalness of action IS power. When we go against the natural way of moving, we rob outselves of power and focus. By not moving naturally, but thinking "I must move THIS way" (which is not natural to us), you rob yourself of power as well as intent.
"Behind every technique is the purpose of the technique. While training, this crucial element must not be forgotten. Every situation is ongoing and ever-changing. Sacrificing purpose for technique is a common mistake." Page 78
"Without purpose - technique is an empty dance." - Lee Darrow, 1968
The whole idea of any given technique is to accomplish something. Sometimes a technique has more than one purpose and that may change with the circumstances of its application, but purpose is the key to good technique. Isn't this what bunkai (interpretation) is all about? (honest question, not an attack)
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Sandan (semi-retired)
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
A receiving stance - when you receive the energy of an attack you can add that back into your energy and double your outcome with no greater work.
The greatest challenge is that someone doing a very good sanchin will look like a piece of stone - so people imitate what they see -- this is why sanchin can only be felt and trasmitted from people who understand it. If you only see the stance you will make your body into an telephone pole that doesn't bend.
If you understand it, your stance will be like bamboo mixed with spider's silk. Flexible, pliable, adapatible, alive.
Sanchin is a very alive stance. Not a dead one.
Good quote. Thanks.
Dana
[This message has been edited by dmsdc (edited February 08, 2002).]
Since sanchin is our major grounding activity in Uechi -- I don't know if this works for anyone else, but a major shift came in my trainng when I stopped looking at Sanchin as a stance that kept things out and started looking at it as something that lets things pass through."Cultivate groundedness rather than assume what you think is a grounded shape. Feel the ground; relax and stand aligned with gravity." Page 73
A receiving stance - when you receive the energy of an attack you can add that back into your energy and double your outcome with no greater work.
The greatest challenge is that someone doing a very good sanchin will look like a piece of stone - so people imitate what they see -- this is why sanchin can only be felt and trasmitted from people who understand it. If you only see the stance you will make your body into an telephone pole that doesn't bend.
If you understand it, your stance will be like bamboo mixed with spider's silk. Flexible, pliable, adapatible, alive.
Sanchin is a very alive stance. Not a dead one.
Good quote. Thanks.
Dana
[This message has been edited by dmsdc (edited February 08, 2002).]
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Stryke
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
Mr Darrow , Dana , couldnt agree more , people in my opinion often mistake the method of learning for the attributes learnt .
Isnt this basicaly where the my styles better than your style comes from and the this way is the only way mentality .
Isnt this basicaly where the my styles better than your style comes from and the this way is the only way mentality .
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
Rick Wilson-sama, Stryke-sama,
Thank you both for your kind words and compliments.
<bows, formally>
When one can no longer fight, one can still think.
I hope.
Respectfully and with thanks,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Thank you both for your kind words and compliments.
<bows, formally>
When one can no longer fight, one can still think.
I hope.
Respectfully and with thanks,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
Anyone ever stub their tow while walking to the bath-room in the middle of the night? Its dark, you're tired and groggy from sleep, you're not too alert anc can't see too well.
But your intention is to walk to the br. Totally and completely commited, without any real effort at all, no issue of striving to get there, just one foot in fromt of the other and then WHACK. Hurts real bad don't it?
That's natural action, and that's what T'aiji is all about. ( And I am not getting into "my style's better than yours
' here, 'cause I love all of it. )
Two stories that I've heard will make good cases in point:
1. A karate teacher of consumate skill and dedication is walking down a busy sidewalk in New York and just after rounding a corner is slammed into by some guy running full-tilt the other way. The running-guy simply bounces off said walker/trained karate man and lays out full yard-sale style on the cement. The other guy just keeps on walking unharmed. Both had natural action ... the runner just didn't have any grounding. His massive energy wound up being his undoing as it collided with a man who found his body going into a sanchin-esque stance just in time. Lots of training at work here.
2. Same karate-trained individual attends a seminar and demomonstration of T'aiji. When the master askes for a volenteer, he gets right up. The 100 pound Chinese man requests that said karateka "brace" himself and try to resist being pushed against the nearby wall. Well, you all know what he must have done, and this little old man proceeded to plaster the bigger guy into the wall repeatedly. He could literally send him flying into the wall.
In T'aiji, they talk about "rooting" quite extensively. By actually relaxing into the ground, letting your weight sink down, dividends of power are payed in return. Of course, to most of us the time involved training to get there with that kind of demostrable skill is too rediculous. I have, however, seen it in front of me and I know it is real.
Anyway, this is a deep topic ... I just wanted to respond to the post(s): very interesting.
But your intention is to walk to the br. Totally and completely commited, without any real effort at all, no issue of striving to get there, just one foot in fromt of the other and then WHACK. Hurts real bad don't it?
That's natural action, and that's what T'aiji is all about. ( And I am not getting into "my style's better than yours
' here, 'cause I love all of it. )
Two stories that I've heard will make good cases in point:
1. A karate teacher of consumate skill and dedication is walking down a busy sidewalk in New York and just after rounding a corner is slammed into by some guy running full-tilt the other way. The running-guy simply bounces off said walker/trained karate man and lays out full yard-sale style on the cement. The other guy just keeps on walking unharmed. Both had natural action ... the runner just didn't have any grounding. His massive energy wound up being his undoing as it collided with a man who found his body going into a sanchin-esque stance just in time. Lots of training at work here.
2. Same karate-trained individual attends a seminar and demomonstration of T'aiji. When the master askes for a volenteer, he gets right up. The 100 pound Chinese man requests that said karateka "brace" himself and try to resist being pushed against the nearby wall. Well, you all know what he must have done, and this little old man proceeded to plaster the bigger guy into the wall repeatedly. He could literally send him flying into the wall.
In T'aiji, they talk about "rooting" quite extensively. By actually relaxing into the ground, letting your weight sink down, dividends of power are payed in return. Of course, to most of us the time involved training to get there with that kind of demostrable skill is too rediculous. I have, however, seen it in front of me and I know it is real.
Anyway, this is a deep topic ... I just wanted to respond to the post(s): very interesting.
A Few Good Tidbit Quotes For Discussion
"Totally and completely commited, without any real effort at all, no issue of striving to get there, just one foot in fromt of the other and then WHACK. Hurts real bad don't it?"
yeah, but once youve stopped hopping around swearing, try taking 2 running steps, closing your eyes, and giving a great big footballer's kick to the wall. then see if you can find where your toe lands.
intersting stories about the two karateka. I think Ive felt somthing similar with some of my opponents.
yeah, but once youve stopped hopping around swearing, try taking 2 running steps, closing your eyes, and giving a great big footballer's kick to the wall. then see if you can find where your toe lands.
intersting stories about the two karateka. I think Ive felt somthing similar with some of my opponents.
