Playing With Circles

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david
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Location: Boston, MA

Playing With Circles

Post by david »

Anytime you see circular movements of the hand/arm -- small or large -- there are implications for joint locks. This has been discussed often in the forums. Some know these from exposure to other styles like jujutsu/aikido and FMA's. Others who have not left their dojo's (Suggestion: GET OUT and look around!) may still be wondering about this.

Anyway, in the informal group, we have twice drifted off (from the intended content of the day) and played quite a bit with circles to see what kind of locks we end up with. It's a good exercise in experimental learning.

Simply have a partner grasp your wrist. You perform circular motion, inside or outside, standing still, moving sideways or moving in directly or diagonally. Vary the size of circles. Don't forget your other hand. It should be "alive" to help you. I suggest an atemi with the live hand then proceed to assist the "captured" hand to implement a lock.

If you stay outside, your lock will likely be on the wrist. If you go in, you'll likely end up with an elbow or arm bar type lock. If you apply the "live" hand to the partners neck/head, you'll likely control and spin the partner ending with him severely disrupted in balance or down in some type of armbar lock.

You can further experiment from the wrist grasp to straight type punches. You can add a pocketstick or a training knife in the "captured" or "live" hand. The tool will add on elements of leverage and pressurepoint in the lock.

Don't play these fast. Play slow/medium speed and soft. You're just simply trying to see the possibilities from playing. Plus, if you not quite sure what you're doing, you don't want to inadvertantly hurt your partner or be hurt by him/her.

Circles are one of the more fascinating objects of study in nature and philosophy. Image

david

[This message has been edited by david (edited April 19, 2002).]
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Bill Glasheen
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Playing With Circles

Post by Bill Glasheen »

david

Raffi is always a favorite visitor of our dojo. He has a lot of good FMA applications with stick, knife, and empty hand (the same move applied with any of the above) that involve locks, throws, and disarms.

I still remember my visit to the Cambridge Street Mattson Academy in May, 1977. Were you around then? Bobby Campbell allowed me time enough to ask him scores of questions about various Uechi techniques and his personal applications. There were a few (particularly applications of the double sukui uke) that it seemed at the time only Bobby could do. But later on, with exposure to aikido from Steven King and Clyde Takaguchi, much of what I saw but couldn't assimilate suddenly jumped out at me.

The shoken sukui ake uke of sanseiryu always seemed like such a straightforward technique. Grab leg and toss, right? Then there was that jiujitsu practitioner at an early 1990s camp (young fellow that knew lots of kata) that showed me an ankle lock. Then one day Ian showed me a rather nasty application around the neck against someone trying to tackle you - something that just came to him when sparring with a judo practitioner.

I like your idea, david. So much of this stuff it seems you are supposed to mine from the collective wisdom around you. But when I watch the really good aikidoka doing randori, they just keep moving and moving and moving like water until something happens. It's totally extemporaneous.

One day...

- Bill
david
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Location: Boston, MA

Playing With Circles

Post by david »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I still remember my visit to the Cambridge Street Mattson Academy in May, 1977. Were you around then?
In '75, I headed off to Brandeis and practiced with Richard Baptista in the Brandeis Uechi club. I went back to Mattsons only on weekends, school breaks (and when I needed to get the hell off campus.)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
There were a few (particularly applications of the double sukui uke) that it seemed at the time only Bobby could do. But later on, with exposure to aikido from Steven King and Clyde Takaguchi, much of what I saw but couldn't assimilate suddenly jumped out at me.
Yes. He caught me several times with that and tossed me head over heels across the floor. I now know it as kaitennage (Wheel throw). Bob's "stealing eyes." Image I am convinced he "stole" it from Mitsunari Kanai sensei of New England Aikikai. We used to do these demo's as part of some bigger martial expo in New England Life (John Hancock) Hall. I remember seeing Kanai sensei demonstrate either before or after us. Truthfully, I didn't know who Kanai sensei was then or what aikido was for that matter. But having trained with and seen Kanai sensei demonstrate since then, I am sure that kaitennage would have been one of the techniques demonstrated against a straight punch.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Then one day Ian showed me a rather nasty application around the neck against someone trying to tackle you - something that just came to him when sparring with a judo practitioner.
Yup. Best way to learn it. Both Mike Aceto and I ended up having to do the same thing in separate matches with the same steroid-driven nut-case wrestling type who used to pick folks up and slammed them onto the hardwood floors in sparring.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
But when I watch the really good aikidoka doing randori, they just keep moving and moving and moving like water until something happens. It's totally extemporaneous.
The fluidity appears after much slow repetitive playing. What seems "extemporaneous" has actually been played with a lot. Image

david


[This message has been edited by david (edited April 19, 2002).]
Tony-San

Playing With Circles

Post by Tony-San »

I was taking Aiki Jitsu for a while and was amazed at the Deja-Vu feelings I would get when doing the circular footwork and armwwork. I found that I was able to do much of what I was being taught by using parts of my kata as a reference... things like the Seisan Jump, Tenshin moves, even Shokens suddenly opened up to another dimension. The one thing i learned, and perhaps the most important thing is that my "hardness" and inability to let go of my Sanchin training really hampered my training there and actually prevented me from realzing the full potential of my uechi.
david
Posts: 2076
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Location: Boston, MA

Playing With Circles

Post by david »

Hi Chi, Image

Didn't know you practice Pakua? Was that it Boston or where you are now? I can't say say I seen much or it or anyone recently walking in circles in Chinatown. Image

Luis...? From Grito? I think about Grito/BAASA every so often. I think fondly of those cross cultural get-togethers. Do you remember a Lillian Gonzales? She was at Brandeis/Grito for awhile. Bumped into her significant other and then her a number of years ago because their children were in the same Montessori us our kids. Anyway she is a partner in a CPA firm and now does our agency audits. She doesn't see much folks from those days either.

So, there are interwining circles in our lives too. Image

david
chi2
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 1999 6:01 am
Location: ny ,ny

Playing With Circles

Post by chi2 »

hi david....i'm still lurking

you hit on my favorite topic, in tai chi and pakua there are small circles and large circles and spiraling circles...most of which i interpret to be locks and other control moves...usually contol and then a large body move that focuses the full body weight on the joint. the pa kua contols momentarily and then steps alongside or behind, the continuing spiral either breaking or inducing a head over heels movement of the partner...(my take on it anyway)

btw, i heard from luis...he lives a couple of miles from me..
all the best
chi
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