Please add your comments to this interesting post I found.
<<Kope wrote:
Basically, human muscles use a chemical compound known as ATP for energy. That's the ONLY thing muscles use for energy. ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) is broken down into ADP (adenosine di-phosphate), and the energy that is released from that chemical reaction is used to fuel the muscle fibre.
In order to achieve this breakdown of ATP to ADP, the body has a number of different energy transport systems. These systems are commonly broken up into anaerobic (those not involving oxygen) and aerobic (those involving oxygen).
Thus we get aerobic excercises and anaerobic excercises -- the deliniating factor being if the ATP->ADP+energy reaction uses oxygen or not.
However, the body is more complicated than that. There are multiple ways for the body to break ATP down into ADP without oxygen. These different energy pathways use the chemicals phosphagen, phosphocreatine, and glycogen/lactic acid. So there are actually 3 different types of anaerobic energy transport systems. The way you excercise anaerobically determines which of these transport systems you are working.
The phosphagen and phosphocreatine systems are not really seperable in terms of training. They use a very fast reaction to breakdown ADP and form ATP again. Because of the way the system works, the ATP levels in the muscle remain fairly constant while the phosphagen adn phosphocreatine levels are depleated. This system can supply a very high level of energy for about 20-30 seconds. In actuallity, the phosphagen system supplies energy for a few seconds or so, when the phosphocreatine system takes over and can run out the remaining 20 to 30 seconds.
After that length of time, the phosphagen and phosphocreatine levels in the muscles are depleated, so the muscles turn to a glycogen/lactic acid reaction to break ATP down into ADP. This system can provide more total energy than the preceeding phosphagen/phosphocreatine system, but not as quickly. The results of this reaction is lactic acid in the muscle tissues.
After that, "oxidative phosphorylation" takes over and you are into aerobic excercise.
All this means that there are 3 different types of "anaerobic" systems for providing energy to the muscles and 1 type of "aerobic" system.
Now, when you are training for a specific activity (and not just for general health), it is important to train each energy transport system and not just anaerobic and aerobic. The reason why it is important is that "anaerobic" is just a general category and not a single energy system.
How this translates to martial artists is that excercises that are called "plyometric" should be added to a the typical weight lifting and running/jumping rope/windsprint training session.
Weight training typically excercises the anaerobic glycosis system. It doesn't work to expand the creatine and phosphogen carrying capacity of muscles so does realtively little for the first two types of anaerogic energy transport.
Plyometric excercises focus on short bursts of high energy followed by sufficient rest to build the phosphogen and creatin levels back up in the muscle fibres.
The key to solid plyometric work is that you use a short burst of VERY high energy, followed by a fairly long rest period to allow the muscle to "reset" to avoid using the glycogen pathway for energy.
Examples of a plyometric workout would be the medicine ball pushup: take a medicine ball and place it under your left hand, get into a pushup position. Launch yourself into the air, clap your hands, and then land with the medicine ball under your right hand. Repeat as fast as you can for no more than 20 seconds. AFter that 20 seconds, take a nice long break from ecxercising those muscle groups -- like 10minutes or more. Then repeat. Continue this burst of energy, long break, until you can't do the excercise any more. This will mean you've fully exhausted the phosphogen energy pathway in those muscle group.
You can devise similar high-energy, short durration excercises for your other muscle groups. The key is that it must be an explosive application of force. VERY fast muscle contractions are important.
Add these types of excercises to a solid weight and aerobic program and you'll notice a huge difference in your conditioning.>>
Body Chemicals
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Bill Glasheen
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Body Chemicals
This is...interesting. Where did you find this?
I am familiar with most of the concepts here. However I get the impression (perhaps I am wrong) that this is a classic case of a little information being a dangerous thing.
It is true that there are four different energy generation systems. He's got that right.
HOWEVER...
ATP (adenosine triphosphate) is broken down to ADP (adenosine diphosphate) to supply the energy for muscle contraction. Actually you can go one more step to AMP (adenosine monophosphate) in extreme conditions. But I believe the various biochemical mechanisms mentioned have NOTHING to do with breaking a phosphate bond off of ATP or ADP. Rather they have to do with re-loading that phosphate bond back on (re-cocking the trigger, so to write). Oops!!
Finally, I'm not so sure that plyometric training is supposed to be about enhancing the efficiency of biochemical pathways. Maybe... My impression is that it had more to do with enhancing neuromuscular reflexes. Who knows - maybe both are the case.
I too wouldn't mind a little more commentary.
- Bill
I am familiar with most of the concepts here. However I get the impression (perhaps I am wrong) that this is a classic case of a little information being a dangerous thing.
It is true that there are four different energy generation systems. He's got that right.
HOWEVER...
ATP (adenosine triphosphate) is broken down to ADP (adenosine diphosphate) to supply the energy for muscle contraction. Actually you can go one more step to AMP (adenosine monophosphate) in extreme conditions. But I believe the various biochemical mechanisms mentioned have NOTHING to do with breaking a phosphate bond off of ATP or ADP. Rather they have to do with re-loading that phosphate bond back on (re-cocking the trigger, so to write). Oops!!
Finally, I'm not so sure that plyometric training is supposed to be about enhancing the efficiency of biochemical pathways. Maybe... My impression is that it had more to do with enhancing neuromuscular reflexes. Who knows - maybe both are the case.
I too wouldn't mind a little more commentary.
- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Body Chemicals
There are other factors involved in training.
One key to the concept of periodization is understanding that fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers should be trained differently. In a typical weight exercise, the fast twitch are completely exhausted after the first 5 reps, plus or minus. High reps trains mostly slow twitch. High weight and fewer reps puts a greater emphasis on fast twitch.
Explosiveness is a multi-dimensional issue. It is coordination. It is spinal reflexes. It is recruitment of fast-twitch muscle fibers. Strength is the foundation, but only that. A typical bodybuilder has fairly minimal power. Their training instead emphasizes muscular size - period. A martial artist needs to take things the next step. This is where the medicine ball, clapping pushups, bunny hops, etc. come into play. Ron Fagen does some good stuff with this, but his routines generally emphasize the lower half of the body (the most important part I might add).
Weight training for sports has been undergoing a quiet revolution these days. Football players can no longer rely on the squat and the bench to make it on the field. That's the foundation, but the real achievement comes with the Olympic-style lifts that are done several times a week.
For those interested in the difference between strength and power training, check out the following Website. A fellow lifter at my gym who is on Colgate's football team directed me to it. A key strength coach there is formerly from Nebraska's football program, and he took all his goodies with him. Thankfully great guys like this take their wealth of knowledge and share it with the rest of the world.
Thanks, Coach Glover!
Here's the main entry...
Colgate Power Performance Page
But the index below gets you to some nice pics of exercises. In particular, look at the contrast between strength lifts and explosive lifts. There are also some good plyometric exercises (under running section) that can be adapted for dojo training.
Index
My favorite explosive lift, by the way, is the power clean. It should be a staple of training in the weight room for the martial artist.
Oh and by the way, check out the definition of plyometrics on this page... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited July 29, 2002).]
One key to the concept of periodization is understanding that fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers should be trained differently. In a typical weight exercise, the fast twitch are completely exhausted after the first 5 reps, plus or minus. High reps trains mostly slow twitch. High weight and fewer reps puts a greater emphasis on fast twitch.
Explosiveness is a multi-dimensional issue. It is coordination. It is spinal reflexes. It is recruitment of fast-twitch muscle fibers. Strength is the foundation, but only that. A typical bodybuilder has fairly minimal power. Their training instead emphasizes muscular size - period. A martial artist needs to take things the next step. This is where the medicine ball, clapping pushups, bunny hops, etc. come into play. Ron Fagen does some good stuff with this, but his routines generally emphasize the lower half of the body (the most important part I might add).
Weight training for sports has been undergoing a quiet revolution these days. Football players can no longer rely on the squat and the bench to make it on the field. That's the foundation, but the real achievement comes with the Olympic-style lifts that are done several times a week.
For those interested in the difference between strength and power training, check out the following Website. A fellow lifter at my gym who is on Colgate's football team directed me to it. A key strength coach there is formerly from Nebraska's football program, and he took all his goodies with him. Thankfully great guys like this take their wealth of knowledge and share it with the rest of the world.
Thanks, Coach Glover!
Here's the main entry...
Colgate Power Performance Page
But the index below gets you to some nice pics of exercises. In particular, look at the contrast between strength lifts and explosive lifts. There are also some good plyometric exercises (under running section) that can be adapted for dojo training.
Index
My favorite explosive lift, by the way, is the power clean. It should be a staple of training in the weight room for the martial artist.
Oh and by the way, check out the definition of plyometrics on this page... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Nice when smart people agree with me...The purpose of a plyometric movement is to train the body's neuromuscular system to respond as quickly and as forcefully as possible through the elicitation of the stretch-reflex.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited July 29, 2002).]
Body Chemicals
I have done 325 push-ups in about 20 minutes. I exhausted my muscles with 50 push-ups took a short break with stretches moving my arms to get the blood flow again, then continued with less push-ups than the time before until I reached a number of push-ups I thought I could never do.
I like the bench press, I lift my butt off the bench and that disqualifies me with that amount of weight.
I like the bench press, I lift my butt off the bench and that disqualifies me with that amount of weight.
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Bill Glasheen
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- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Body Chemicals
I boned up a bit on my biochemistry.
There are actually 3 systems here (not really 4 as the above fellow suggests) which help produce ATP for muscle contraction:
* The ATP - phosphocreatine system
* The glycolytic system
* The oxidative system (via glycolysis, Krebs cycle, or electron transport chain).
The first two systems are anaerobic; they do not require oxygen. The last - by definition - is aerobic.
The most important things to consider are the following:
The ATP-PCr system lasts 3 to 15 seconds during an all-out sprint. The glycolytic system lasts for 1 to 2 minutes during an all-out sprint. The oxidative system kicks in last.
The concentration of ATP in the muscles decreases as one goes from ATP-PCr to glycolytic to oxidative generation of ATP. This means that the strength of contraction decreases.
Only anaerobic ATP production is relevant to martial arts. Karate aerobics (a.k.a. "kickboxing") is an oxymoron. While aerobic (oxidative) metabolism can produce a tremendous amount of energy (or burn a lot of energy), the ATP levels in the muscles for that system are too low for one to generate much in the way of power in an individual technique. Sprinters explode; long distance runners endure. This also suggests that the obsession people have with martial arts breathing as a means to get oxygen in the body is somewhat moot. Breathing has important functions in a fight, but bringing oxygen to the muscles isn't really a major part of the discussion. Getting through a long workout with many technique repetitions or getting through a sport match is another story altogether.
Finally, one of the reasons that many power and strength athletes consume creatine these days is to lengthen the utility of the ATP-PCr system. The more phosphocreatine in the muscle, the greater the time period of maximal muscle contraction.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited July 31, 2002).]
There are actually 3 systems here (not really 4 as the above fellow suggests) which help produce ATP for muscle contraction:
* The ATP - phosphocreatine system
* The glycolytic system
* The oxidative system (via glycolysis, Krebs cycle, or electron transport chain).
The first two systems are anaerobic; they do not require oxygen. The last - by definition - is aerobic.
The most important things to consider are the following:
The ATP-PCr system lasts 3 to 15 seconds during an all-out sprint. The glycolytic system lasts for 1 to 2 minutes during an all-out sprint. The oxidative system kicks in last.
The concentration of ATP in the muscles decreases as one goes from ATP-PCr to glycolytic to oxidative generation of ATP. This means that the strength of contraction decreases.
Only anaerobic ATP production is relevant to martial arts. Karate aerobics (a.k.a. "kickboxing") is an oxymoron. While aerobic (oxidative) metabolism can produce a tremendous amount of energy (or burn a lot of energy), the ATP levels in the muscles for that system are too low for one to generate much in the way of power in an individual technique. Sprinters explode; long distance runners endure. This also suggests that the obsession people have with martial arts breathing as a means to get oxygen in the body is somewhat moot. Breathing has important functions in a fight, but bringing oxygen to the muscles isn't really a major part of the discussion. Getting through a long workout with many technique repetitions or getting through a sport match is another story altogether.
Finally, one of the reasons that many power and strength athletes consume creatine these days is to lengthen the utility of the ATP-PCr system. The more phosphocreatine in the muscle, the greater the time period of maximal muscle contraction.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited July 31, 2002).]
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jorvik
Body Chemicals
qoute
"In a typical weight exercise, the fast twitch are completely exhausted after the first 5 reps, plus or minus. High reps trains mostly slow twitch. High weight and fewer reps puts a greater emphasis on fast twitch"
does this mean that you would advocate "power lifting" i.e. big weight,few reps for martial arts?.......I'm assuming that an average m.a. would be training for a self defence situation,lasting a coupla seconds or a minute..and not a boxing match...also re creatine...a friend told me that this stuff was a bit risky, could damage the liver etc...info came via a nurse who said she got it from a french medical mag
( she 's pretty clever, practised as a lawyer for a while,but prefered medicine...only say this because i respect her opinion
"In a typical weight exercise, the fast twitch are completely exhausted after the first 5 reps, plus or minus. High reps trains mostly slow twitch. High weight and fewer reps puts a greater emphasis on fast twitch"
does this mean that you would advocate "power lifting" i.e. big weight,few reps for martial arts?.......I'm assuming that an average m.a. would be training for a self defence situation,lasting a coupla seconds or a minute..and not a boxing match...also re creatine...a friend told me that this stuff was a bit risky, could damage the liver etc...info came via a nurse who said she got it from a french medical mag
( she 's pretty clever, practised as a lawyer for a while,but prefered medicine...only say this because i respect her opinion
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Body Chemicals
The high rep low weight vs. low rep high weight arguement is satisfied by applying the concept of periodization. The truth is that we do best for many reasons (too many to explain here) by being balanced in our training. Most experts will tell you that you should train in cycles lasting about 12 weeks. Start the beginning of the cycle with lower weight and high reps (10 reps each set). When you get towards the end of the cycle, take the exercises involving multiple muscle groups (bench, squat, power cleans, DB snatch, etc), and start cranking up the weight while lowering the reps. Stay with sets of 10 for all the single muscle group exercises. After 12 weeks, take a break (ACTIVE rest), re-evaluate your training, come up with a new program and a new attitude, and start again. You should only do 2 or three training cycles in a year. Part of the year should be dedicated to maintenance training while you enjoy life and/or engage in competition.
The press tries very hard to make negative commentary about creatine. The truth is that the stuff occurs naturally in your body, and can be injested via normal food (like chicken). Like anything, you can overdo it. 5 grams a day is plenty, and should be taken with a high glycemic index carbohydrate (basically something like Gatorade or juice) at the tail end of a hard workout. The sugar triggers your insulin to carry it in the muscle cells where you need it. Also, your body will preferentially turn the high glycemic index carbohydrate to glycogen at the end of a hard workout (any other time, it gets turned to fat). That way you have both anabolic ATP systems recharged.
Some things people take to get a competitive edge are bad for you. Caffeine/ephedrine is hard on your body, and there are a few deaths (cardiac arrest) from it each year. Anabolic steroids and growth hormone have known, SERIOUS side effects on the body. Vitamins taken in excess (especially A, D, E) can be very bad for you.
I have seen ONE published anecdote concerning creatine. A guy was taking 20 grams a day, didn't do anything for a while, and then did a killer weight workout. Allegedly the combination of that and the creatine gave him a type of compartment syndrome that created other serious problems. But frankly nobody knows if the creatine caused it. It could have been some other crazy *&%$ that the guy took and wasn't willing to admit.
Folks are concerned that high school and junior high school students are taking the stuff in large quantities. They should be. But frankly vitamins are a LOT more dangerous than creatine. And high school athletes are doing a lot more damage with the steroids, the dieting to get to weight for wrestling, the alcohol, etc.
Tell your nurse friend to find me an article in a peer-reviewed journal that shows negative effects of creatine. She's going to have a VERY hard time finding one. And for every one she finds (if she finds ANY), I'll show her a dozen articles about overdosing on vitamins. Considering how much of the stuff people are injesting these days, I'd say the stuff is pretty safe.
Five grams a day. No more. More is not better.
- Bill
The press tries very hard to make negative commentary about creatine. The truth is that the stuff occurs naturally in your body, and can be injested via normal food (like chicken). Like anything, you can overdo it. 5 grams a day is plenty, and should be taken with a high glycemic index carbohydrate (basically something like Gatorade or juice) at the tail end of a hard workout. The sugar triggers your insulin to carry it in the muscle cells where you need it. Also, your body will preferentially turn the high glycemic index carbohydrate to glycogen at the end of a hard workout (any other time, it gets turned to fat). That way you have both anabolic ATP systems recharged.
Some things people take to get a competitive edge are bad for you. Caffeine/ephedrine is hard on your body, and there are a few deaths (cardiac arrest) from it each year. Anabolic steroids and growth hormone have known, SERIOUS side effects on the body. Vitamins taken in excess (especially A, D, E) can be very bad for you.
I have seen ONE published anecdote concerning creatine. A guy was taking 20 grams a day, didn't do anything for a while, and then did a killer weight workout. Allegedly the combination of that and the creatine gave him a type of compartment syndrome that created other serious problems. But frankly nobody knows if the creatine caused it. It could have been some other crazy *&%$ that the guy took and wasn't willing to admit.
Folks are concerned that high school and junior high school students are taking the stuff in large quantities. They should be. But frankly vitamins are a LOT more dangerous than creatine. And high school athletes are doing a lot more damage with the steroids, the dieting to get to weight for wrestling, the alcohol, etc.
Tell your nurse friend to find me an article in a peer-reviewed journal that shows negative effects of creatine. She's going to have a VERY hard time finding one. And for every one she finds (if she finds ANY), I'll show her a dozen articles about overdosing on vitamins. Considering how much of the stuff people are injesting these days, I'd say the stuff is pretty safe.
Five grams a day. No more. More is not better.
- Bill
Body Chemicals
I would prefer to naturally restore these chemicals in my body or at least try to control them through some kind of mind body thing. I'm not sure this is possible to have a complete healthy balance of chemicals in the body through stretches and other MA practise. If it were so, it would be interesting to know the perfect practise for each individual as well as myself.
The formular would be to be happy at what we do.
The formular would be to be happy at what we do.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Body Chemicals
crazycat
98% of the stuff you see in a vitamin store or advertised in a muscle mag is a waste of money. The only criteria for selling stuff in there is that it won't kill you. Most people would do just fine with a balanced diet, and absence of bad habits, and perhaps a simple multivitamin/multimineral supplement. There are a couple of herbs worth noting. For instance, saw palmetto has been show to be about as effective as the more expensive prescription finasteride (a.k.a. Proscar). Much of the stuff in the herb section though is worthless or worse.
For 99% of the world, creatine supplementation is a waste of money. Creatine isn't going to do anyone a bit of good if you consume it and then do the typical loaf through a few exercises. Creatine is only going to help a handful of elite athletes that push themselves to the max in power/strength training on a regular basis. It works...but the benefit is marginal, and for a very few.
You keep on keeping on, crazycat!
- Bill
98% of the stuff you see in a vitamin store or advertised in a muscle mag is a waste of money. The only criteria for selling stuff in there is that it won't kill you. Most people would do just fine with a balanced diet, and absence of bad habits, and perhaps a simple multivitamin/multimineral supplement. There are a couple of herbs worth noting. For instance, saw palmetto has been show to be about as effective as the more expensive prescription finasteride (a.k.a. Proscar). Much of the stuff in the herb section though is worthless or worse.
For 99% of the world, creatine supplementation is a waste of money. Creatine isn't going to do anyone a bit of good if you consume it and then do the typical loaf through a few exercises. Creatine is only going to help a handful of elite athletes that push themselves to the max in power/strength training on a regular basis. It works...but the benefit is marginal, and for a very few.
You keep on keeping on, crazycat!
- Bill
