Magic as a Martial Art

KarateKid · Post by **KarateKid** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:57 pm

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight Sun Tzu – The Art of War (ca. 400 B.C.)

As both a pratitioner of Magic and Martial Arts, I came across a very nice article on the two... If it was posted here before, forgive me for the repeat performance

...

Here it is: http://www.leirpoll.com/martialart.htm

Hope you enjoy it.

-KID

Excerpt:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Aikido is a form of Martial Art. The word "Aikido" is made up of three Japanese characters: AI - harmony, KI - spirit, mind, or universal energy, DO - the Way. Thus Aikido is the Way of Harmony with Universal Energy. One of the key points of Aikido is to redirect your opponent's energy instead of trying to stop him. If you stop him, you will have to absorb his energy. But, if you yield to his energy, he will continue around your body and cannot do any damage to you. If your enemy throws a punch at you, you should not try to block his attack – that will hurt you! Instead, you should try to lead his energy past your body, and his attack will lose its power. Mr. Skrabut gave me a very good lesson on this: "Push me," he said - so I pushed him with quite a bit of force. He just went limp and rotated; the result being that I continued forward, became unstable and almost fell because I didn't meet the resistance I anticipated. He directed my energy away from and around himself. It’s almost impossible to hurt a person that doesn’t meet your attack with force! Also, if your opponent doesn’t use any force, it’s almost impossible to defeat him, and the more energy there is in his attack, the harder he will fall. Aikido, in order to be an effective method of self-defense, is totally dependent on a strong attack.

Could the same be true for Magic? If the spectator is not thoroughly engaged in the magic effect, he might not fall for the magician’s persuasion techniques. But if he is involved, or even provoked, there is a better chance that he will be fooled. Slydini and Ramsey (Jarle, check the spelling on this. II think it's Ramsay) used effects that provoked the spectator to "catch" the magician. Slydini challenged the spectators and made them try very hard to discover the secret, and redirected their energy towards a conclusion, which he would later disprove.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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“Don’t let Martial Arts grab hold of you. Grab a hold of it.” -James Ibrao

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:41 pm

Thank you, Kid.

Several decades ago I had a redheaded karate student - John Kingry - that was also a professional magician. I can't even begin to tell you what a pleasure it was having him in our group.

I have always appreciated the connection between a good fighter and the art of illusion/redirection/deception. But I am just now beginning to appreciate the depth of this.

Stuff like this should be required study for practitioners of our art. Too many are stuck in the Rockem, Sockem Robot (TM) phase. Deception like this once saved me from a nasty fight with 3 thugs in Charlottesville during a quiet Christmas vacation period. It also saved me from an altercation with 3 gentlemen engaged in vandalism (multiple vehicle tire slashing) that included one with a rather nasty long knife.

- Bill

krymrgn · Post by **krymrgn** » Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:52 pm

Karate Kid....

Are you refering to like "David Copperfield" magic?

That article was really interesting... Great read!

Kerry-

the Khazar Kid · Post by **the Khazar Kid** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 6:38 am

Some interesting articles on this:
www.drearic.com/sass1-sleightofhand.html
www.drearic.com/SignalsKeating.htm
www.drearic.com/Magichoudini.htm
www.alliancemartialarts.com/magic.html

[This message has been edited by the Khazar Kid (edited September 29, 2002).]

krymrgn · Post by **krymrgn** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:31 pm

Interesting links....

Fool New-Agers.....Fake Psychic Powers....many try to do so and fail.

The articles I saw were about "fooling" people, and "faking" things....There is a certain "intent" there that seems to mock those which have certain "sensitivities", which are inevitable and sometimes unwanted - for them.

A true clarivoient/empath/psychic wouldn't be fooled, but classic illusion is quite fun to watch, and probably just as fun to try.

Wouldn't it be interesting to work out with someone whose intent was not one to hurt, but who seemed to be able to "counter" each "move" as if they knew it was coming before you even knew you were going to try it. How would you "spar" a person with such a talent, would you want to aquire such a kind of talent as that. If so, where would you look to find it, develope it, learn more about it? What IS that unusual feeling you get when around a person of such "sensitivity". Would you feel afraid around them? Would not a person with a harmful intent feel that much more afraid of them?

Mind, Body, and Spirit....

"Life is like a movie, kinda strange but true, if I looked deep enough, I'd see myself in you...."

To each their own, yet all on a path leading to love.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 4:39 am

Kerry

You won't find me jumping on the ESP wagon, but I will tell you that many good fighters DO know what you are going to do before you do it. This can happen on a conscious level or unconscious one, and from general information or information derived from situational observations.

The best way to counter such a person is to sense what signals you are sending to your opponent and start to flood them with "false information."

As an academic exercise... IF the U.S. goes to war with Iraq, check out what the battle plans are that are written in "expert analyses," and then look for what actually happens. Bet you there will be some surprises.

That happened in the original Gulf War (the end run around the defensive line).

- Bill

the Khazar Kid · Post by **the Khazar Kid** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 4:40 am

The links in the middle might not have worked before this, I just edited them, now they should work too.

krymrgn · Post by **krymrgn** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 9:43 am

Mr. Glasheen;

I don't blame you! (for not jumping on that band wagon- it's bumpy and I hate that ESP "word" it isn't accurate) Nor will I say any more than I have - in-appropriate... though interesting and fun topic outside of a karate forum.

What you said really is interesting and has got me going again! I love that about talking in here! I can't wait to get back into class to see what insight it will offer!

I used to watch these very old, very "crude" meaning graphic movies - it was an actual like TV show from Japan called Lonewolf and Cub - Doubt it will ring a bell - but the "samuri guuy- (he wasn't a Samuri but can't remember what he was called- he was the guyy who took the sword when someone was intending to commit suicide- can't remember that term either at the moment... and be there in case he couldn't do it- he'd help so to speak- but was shamed and cast out- so he became Lonewolf with his son.... going around helping people) Once you got past the blood- it was facinating- he would be able to do that which you referred to- anticipating a move etc- from his own experiences - I'll have to get back in here and let you know the technical names I can't remember now.... but they were the most amazing movies / videos to watch! Little bit shocking at first - they were sub-titled - (that wasn't the shocking part LOL) but the graphicness of the scenes were.... But I guess that is custom over there and expected like car chases in our movies.... etc.

Really great post Thank You! Flood them with false info- I can't wait to try that with my Sensei- (Steve husband) After class we sometimes spar each other- just to be able to do so - (great marriage binder LOL) and I really want to see if I can do that with him- 30 yrs experience to 3.5 yeah right- I'll be sore! But WHAT FUN!

Kerry-

LeeDarrow · Post by **LeeDarrow** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by krymrgn:

Mr. Glasheen;

I don't blame you! (for not jumping on that band wagon- it's bumpy and I hate that ESP "word" it isn't accurate) Nor will I say any more than I have - in-appropriate... though interesting and fun topic outside of a karate forum.

What you said really is interesting and has got me going again! I love that about talking in here! I can't wait to get back into class to see what insight it will offer!

I used to watch these very old, very "crude" meaning graphic movies - it was an actual like TV show from Japan called Lonewolf and Cub - Doubt it will ring a bell - but the "samuri guuy- (he wasn't a Samuri but can't remember what he was called- he was the guyy who took the sword when someone was intending to commit suicide- can't remember that term either at the moment... and be there in case he couldn't do it- he'd help so to speak- but was shamed and cast out- so he became Lonewolf with his son.... going around helping people) Once you got past the blood- it was facinating- he would be able to do that which you referred to- anticipating a move etc- from his own experiences - I'll have to get back in here and let you know the technical names I can't remember now.... but they were the most amazing movies / videos to watch! Little bit shocking at first - they were sub-titled - (that wasn't the shocking part LOL) but the graphicness of the scenes were.... But I guess that is custom over there and expected like car chases in our movies.... etc.

Really great post Thank You! Flood them with false info- I can't wait to try that with my Sensei- (Steve husband) After class we sometimes spar each other- just to be able to do so - (great marriage binder LOL) and I really want to see if I can do that with him- 30 yrs experience to 3.5 yeah right- I'll be sore! But WHAT FUN!

Kerry-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kerry-sama,

The Ogami Itto character in Lone Wolf and Cub was the former Kaishaku-nin, the one who performed the coup de grace after someone committed seppuku (grossly misnamed hara-kiri in English, which means, literally "stomach cutting").

The character was ably played by the late Tomisaburo Wakayama, whose brother, Katsu Shintaro, played Zatoichi, the Blind Swordsman in the movies of the same name.

As a pro magician and retired martial artist (bad knees and a hip problem), I can certainly relate to Jarle Lerpoll's article. Misdirection, or, as I prefer to call it, "conscious direction," is critical, both in magic and in a real fight.

Body feints, head fakes, stance shifts, even eye focus can fool an opponent and allow one to do what is necessary to bring the fight to a successful conclusion.

But Jarle missed one of the key elements of magic - surprise! In a real fight, not a ring match or dojo contest, doing things that are unexpected and surprising often will make or break a fight.

Good reference. Thanks!

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht. (Sandan, retired)
Hypnotist & Magician to Sandals Resorts http://www.leedarrow.com

krymrgn · Post by **krymrgn** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 1:22 am

How wonderful you remembered all that I'd forgotten. But as soon as you started saying the names I remembered as well. I enjoyed those movies! Would love to get copies if you know where I might find them. My favorite one was where he was about to fight someone - in the water of a lake - and he sunk down so slowly, to waist level to cover his sword, you never really saw him move...

Hyptnotist? I wonder if that would work on your oponent in a fight. "You do not want these droids....." (LOL) No but really- Do you do those shows where you bring up audience members and hyptnotise them? Or do you help smokers quit smoking kind of thing? Must be very fun, lovable work.

The element of surprise I believe would be crucial. Goes right along with the comment about "flooding with false info-) (I tried it with my hub/Sensei- didn't work- he's too good but he was happy I was trying something new and implementing that which I read about) Coarse I need more practice. I'm working towards a black belt test, and this info is really good for me about now!

Thanks for your post!!!!

Kerry-

LeeDarrow · Post by **LeeDarrow** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:18 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by krymrgn:

How wonderful you remembered all that I'd forgotten. But as soon as you started saying the names I remembered as well. I enjoyed those movies! Would love to get copies if you know where I might find them. My favorite one was where he was about to fight someone - in the water of a lake - and he sunk down so slowly, to waist level to cover his sword, you never really saw him move...

Hyptnotist? I wonder if that would work on your oponent in a fight. "You do not want these droids....." (LOL) No but really- Do you do those shows where you bring up audience members and hyptnotise them? Or do you help smokers quit smoking kind of thing? Must be very fun, lovable work.

The element of surprise I believe would be crucial. Goes right along with the comment about "flooding with false info-) (I tried it with my hub/Sensei- didn't work- he's too good but he was happy I was trying something new and implementing that which I read about) Coarse I need more practice. I'm working towards a black belt test, and this info is really good for me about now!

Thanks for your post!!!!

Kerry-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I remember correctly, www.samuraicinema.com is where to find them. There might be a dash ( - ) between the two words, I don't have the URL here at the office.

Fun films.

Kind regards,

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.