Technical knowledge is not enough. One must transcend the techniques so that the art becomes artless, growing out of the unconscious.
--Daisetsu Suzuki
Those who rely entirely on their own strength or energy do not ultimately succeed.
If movement is considered one of the most fundamentally important aspects of martial arts practice (next to breath), how does your movement create the essential connection with Spirit?
Has too much of our movement become merely a series of stylized exercises and techniques that are just "switched" on/off without the conscious process of being aware of the feeling, position or experiences of the body?
Rudolf Steiner once said that the movements of man are "movements arising out of man's own being ... and the outpouring the soul."
Kata is the creation of form as the outpouring of my soul's desire for expression...
------------------
In Beauty,
Jackie
[This message has been edited by Jackie Olsen (edited July 07, 2001).]
Movement
Movement
Olsen-Sensei,
You have hit on something that some of us in the Kata as Jazz thread have touched on as well - kata as self-expression and as one of the key elements that defines the ART portion of the term martial arts.
A kata is a composition - a composition that is, on the face of it, a composition of violence and damaging power.
When one looks more deeply at kata, IMHO, they may begin to see the artfulness of kata and how, through transcending the violence that is the surface of the kata, may see the reflection of the inner self.
My Sensei used to tell us, "A good soul will perform good kata, even in a flawed body. A flawed soul will never be able to perform good kata, even in perfect body."
I think he was right. When I used to attend tournaments back in the early 70's and late 60's, there was a growing body of fighters (I hesitate to call them martial artists for reasons which I will try to make clear) who had no idea of what kata was all about, no sense of respect and little intellectual capacity beyond an urgent need to kick some a**.
Superficially, many of them did well in kumite, their brutality carried them forward through many martial artists, but in kata they universally failed.
They failed because they did not understand and understanding, moving beyond understanding to unconscious action - the Mu Shin state of No-Mind.
Suzuki may have been trying to communicate the idea that art is often done without thought, but is never thoughtless. The actions being the physicalization of the soul's response to the universe around it.
This is not unthinking, this is action in harmony and in pattern with the universe - that state Zen teachers sometimes call a satori state - where the mind is like the moon- touching everything, clinging to nothing, yet beautifying everything it touches (without touching, of course).
This may be a little "heady" for the topic, I'm not sure. But maybe not.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackie Olsen:
Technical knowledge is not enough. One must transcend the techniques so that the art becomes artless, growing out of the unconscious.
--Daisetsu Suzuki
Those who rely entirely on their own strength or energy do not ultimately succeed.
If movement is considered one of the most fundamentally important aspects of martial arts practice (next to breath), how does your movement create the essential connection with Spirit?
Has too much of our movement become merely a series of stylized exercises and techniques that are just "switched" on/off without the conscious process of being aware of the feeling, position or experiences of the body?
Rudolf Steiner once said that the movements of man are "movements arising out of man's own being ... and the outpouring the soul."
Kata is the creation of form as the outpouring of my soul's desire for expression...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You have hit on something that some of us in the Kata as Jazz thread have touched on as well - kata as self-expression and as one of the key elements that defines the ART portion of the term martial arts.
A kata is a composition - a composition that is, on the face of it, a composition of violence and damaging power.
When one looks more deeply at kata, IMHO, they may begin to see the artfulness of kata and how, through transcending the violence that is the surface of the kata, may see the reflection of the inner self.
My Sensei used to tell us, "A good soul will perform good kata, even in a flawed body. A flawed soul will never be able to perform good kata, even in perfect body."
I think he was right. When I used to attend tournaments back in the early 70's and late 60's, there was a growing body of fighters (I hesitate to call them martial artists for reasons which I will try to make clear) who had no idea of what kata was all about, no sense of respect and little intellectual capacity beyond an urgent need to kick some a**.
Superficially, many of them did well in kumite, their brutality carried them forward through many martial artists, but in kata they universally failed.
They failed because they did not understand and understanding, moving beyond understanding to unconscious action - the Mu Shin state of No-Mind.
Suzuki may have been trying to communicate the idea that art is often done without thought, but is never thoughtless. The actions being the physicalization of the soul's response to the universe around it.
This is not unthinking, this is action in harmony and in pattern with the universe - that state Zen teachers sometimes call a satori state - where the mind is like the moon- touching everything, clinging to nothing, yet beautifying everything it touches (without touching, of course).
This may be a little "heady" for the topic, I'm not sure. But maybe not.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackie Olsen:
Technical knowledge is not enough. One must transcend the techniques so that the art becomes artless, growing out of the unconscious.
--Daisetsu Suzuki
Those who rely entirely on their own strength or energy do not ultimately succeed.
If movement is considered one of the most fundamentally important aspects of martial arts practice (next to breath), how does your movement create the essential connection with Spirit?
Has too much of our movement become merely a series of stylized exercises and techniques that are just "switched" on/off without the conscious process of being aware of the feeling, position or experiences of the body?
Rudolf Steiner once said that the movements of man are "movements arising out of man's own being ... and the outpouring the soul."
Kata is the creation of form as the outpouring of my soul's desire for expression...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
-
Jackie Olsen
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Fri Sep 18, 1998 6:01 am
- Contact:
Movement
Thanks for your thoughts, Lee,
No, they're definitely not too deep for this forum. Participants are welcome to post any form of creativity -- especially those connected to how your style "moves" your soul. Many martial artists either don't look beyond the physicality of their movements or are timid amout discussing the spiritual connection.
Yes, after I posted the topic, I noticed the discussion on the other forum ... all things are related, especially those that may "dance" the same matrix!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
My instructor gently took me aside privately and pointed out my shortcomings; however, during class, she told all the students to emulate the heart and soul I put into my training. I didn't get what she meant at the time, but karate-do has taught me well.
I look forward to more of your "heady" thoughts.
------------------
In Beauty,
Jackie
No, they're definitely not too deep for this forum. Participants are welcome to post any form of creativity -- especially those connected to how your style "moves" your soul. Many martial artists either don't look beyond the physicality of their movements or are timid amout discussing the spiritual connection.
Yes, after I posted the topic, I noticed the discussion on the other forum ... all things are related, especially those that may "dance" the same matrix!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
What a wonderful statement! When I was younger, I longed to be a jazz dancer and took all kinds of classes at the local college (with women who were in their teens, compared to my early 30s). At the time, I didn't see that I just didn't have the body/ movements and that I started way too late for a dancer."A good soul will perform good kata, even in a flawed body. A flawed soul will never be able to perform good kata, even in perfect body."
My instructor gently took me aside privately and pointed out my shortcomings; however, during class, she told all the students to emulate the heart and soul I put into my training. I didn't get what she meant at the time, but karate-do has taught me well.
I look forward to more of your "heady" thoughts.
------------------
In Beauty,
Jackie
Movement
Thank you for your kind words, too, Olsen-Sensei.
I am sure my Sensei would appreciate your compliment on his quote as well, were he alive today (though, knowing him, he's reading this forum from the other side and, on some of the threads, getting a good chuckle and in others, like this one, smiling that benign smile of his and nodding in agreement).
Creativity can actually spill over into the real world in real threat situations. I recall one afternoon, sitting in a small diner in Rantoul, IL, having a small celebratory lunch on Sensei's birthday. A large individual, heavily red of neck and looking for a fight, decided to "pick on the little g**k." (his word, not mine!!)
Sensei, who spoke better English than I do (and I am a stage performer, so you get the idea) said, sounding like Mr. Miyagi in a Karate Kid flick, "O-Okay, We fight. But first, you show me you can do this." He smiled, held up his bottle of beer and PUSHED his thumb into the side of the bottle - without breaking it! When he moved his thumb away, there was a DENT in the GLASS of the bottle exactly the size of his thumb!!!
I almost fell off my stool.
The red of neck person turned a lovely shade of pale ochre and left, precipitously, post-haste.
Sensei turned, smiling that famous benign smile and said to the restaurant owner - "Bill, save this bottle for me, will you? It's got a dent in it from the factory!"
As we left, he looked at me, still smiling and said, "That's karate."
How many of us would have done that - or thought to?
It's a lesson I will take with me to the end of my days.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
I am sure my Sensei would appreciate your compliment on his quote as well, were he alive today (though, knowing him, he's reading this forum from the other side and, on some of the threads, getting a good chuckle and in others, like this one, smiling that benign smile of his and nodding in agreement).
Creativity can actually spill over into the real world in real threat situations. I recall one afternoon, sitting in a small diner in Rantoul, IL, having a small celebratory lunch on Sensei's birthday. A large individual, heavily red of neck and looking for a fight, decided to "pick on the little g**k." (his word, not mine!!)
Sensei, who spoke better English than I do (and I am a stage performer, so you get the idea) said, sounding like Mr. Miyagi in a Karate Kid flick, "O-Okay, We fight. But first, you show me you can do this." He smiled, held up his bottle of beer and PUSHED his thumb into the side of the bottle - without breaking it! When he moved his thumb away, there was a DENT in the GLASS of the bottle exactly the size of his thumb!!!
I almost fell off my stool.
The red of neck person turned a lovely shade of pale ochre and left, precipitously, post-haste.
Sensei turned, smiling that famous benign smile and said to the restaurant owner - "Bill, save this bottle for me, will you? It's got a dent in it from the factory!"
As we left, he looked at me, still smiling and said, "That's karate."
How many of us would have done that - or thought to?
It's a lesson I will take with me to the end of my days.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
