I was going to answer this on the other topic, but I really felt that this deserved its own discussion.
Evan sensei offers up some very useful advice about choking someone out and what positio to leave them in; however, what we should understand is that if you are going to perform a caratoid choke (hadaka jime for example), be prepared for a major accident. No one, and I mean no one, can tell what will happen after you slow or stop the blood flow to the brain. Some people may never wake up again. BE PREPARED!
mike
choking/shime waza
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mikemurphy
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choking/shime waza
Mike-
The Judo information site has some very good information on this. Properly executed and stopping as soon as the person goes limp the carotid strangles are very safe.
One of the articles gives all known deaths up to 1985. None of them came from Judo (which uses them orders of magnitude more often than everyone else combined) all of them but one were Law Enforcement related and in nearly every instance the cause of death was asphyxia- which indicates a technique improperly applied to the trachea instead of the vascular system.
Rory
The Judo information site has some very good information on this. Properly executed and stopping as soon as the person goes limp the carotid strangles are very safe.
One of the articles gives all known deaths up to 1985. None of them came from Judo (which uses them orders of magnitude more often than everyone else combined) all of them but one were Law Enforcement related and in nearly every instance the cause of death was asphyxia- which indicates a technique improperly applied to the trachea instead of the vascular system.
Rory
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mikemurphy
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choking/shime waza
Rory,
I have practiced shime waza for a long time and am still very leery of doing this safe. The comments I made come from Shiyuza Sato (8th dan Judo) as well as my sensei here in the states. Having spoken with several physicians as well who agree with the idea that losing blood to the head is NOT a safe thing.
I'm not saying, don't practice it, but for those who actually practice putting out people and think there is no reprocusion to it could be sadly mistaken.
mike
I have practiced shime waza for a long time and am still very leery of doing this safe. The comments I made come from Shiyuza Sato (8th dan Judo) as well as my sensei here in the states. Having spoken with several physicians as well who agree with the idea that losing blood to the head is NOT a safe thing.
I'm not saying, don't practice it, but for those who actually practice putting out people and think there is no reprocusion to it could be sadly mistaken.
mike
choking/shime waza
Mike-
It's getting lonely here, just the two of us
Here's that URL:
http://JudoInfo.com/research.htm
The relevant articles are quite a ways down but the whole site is a goldmine of information.
Rory
It's getting lonely here, just the two of us
Here's that URL:
http://JudoInfo.com/research.htm
The relevant articles are quite a ways down but the whole site is a goldmine of information.
Rory
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Evan Pantazi
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choking/shime waza
No Rory San, Murphy Sensei had just summed it up very well.
I will add a small detail we practice with the choke and that it cutting down instead of up. If you have placed your radial bone against ST-9 and cut in and down it produces severe pain and weakening of the corresponding side of the body. This will allow for less struggling from the opponent in the time before unconscioussness can dispell the threat.
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Evan Pantazi
users.erols.com/kyusho
I will add a small detail we practice with the choke and that it cutting down instead of up. If you have placed your radial bone against ST-9 and cut in and down it produces severe pain and weakening of the corresponding side of the body. This will allow for less struggling from the opponent in the time before unconscioussness can dispell the threat.
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Evan Pantazi
users.erols.com/kyusho
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mikemurphy
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choking/shime waza
Rory,
Shime is such a lonely thing. :-) Anyway, Evan sensei makes a good point about altering the choke a little bit for safety sake. It's all in the students ability to control.
mike
Shime is such a lonely thing. :-) Anyway, Evan sensei makes a good point about altering the choke a little bit for safety sake. It's all in the students ability to control.
mike
