Eight Points of Imbalance

RA Miller · Post by **RA Miller** » Mon Aug 07, 2000 1:56 pm

Good starting point for another thread, John!

The happo-noh-kuzushi is a core tenet of judo, but it applies to everything.

The classic example is the line drawn through the feet. No matter how you stand, if you draw a line through your feet that is your strong line. It is very difficult to throw you in that direction.

Draw a line at 90 degrees to your strong line, bisecting it, and that is your weak line. The closer the forces in a throw are applied to the weak line, the easier it is to throw you. (AAAgh. I have all these neat diagrams and no way to show them.)

Since lines go both ways, each stance gives two good directions to throw. Natural stance- hard to throw side to side, easy front to back. Back stance: hard front or back, easy to either side. Zenkutsu dachi: weak forward left and right rear directions in a right lead stance.

The "8 points" are front, back, left, right and each of the "corners" between.
Experimentally, if you miss a sweep most often it is because the foot was swept along the strong line or the force applied to the upper body was along the strong line. Being a few degrees off can make a huge difference.

That was the classic explanation. Here's my patented, get-it-though-to-cynical-cops explanation:

Point #1:
No matter how you stand, your feet make a box. Outside edges of the foot make two of the lines and one line heel to heel and one line toe to toe. A box. (Draw the foot pattern to all of your stances and draw the box. Some, like a back stance are more of a triangle.)

Point #2: Your center of gravity is located about a hand width below your belly button and half way between your belt uckle and your spine. That's your dot.

If your dot ever leaves the box you will fall over and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Even a limbo dancer...her COG stays directly over her feet.

A large part of throwing is figuring out what edge of the box the dot is closest to. Combine that with any momentum the threat is delivering and your throw is mostly done for you.

This explanation also works on the ground. If someone is pinning you, all their points of contact with the ground- hips, feet elbow, head, hands constitute their box. Their COG remains the same. It is easier to roll them to the nearest edge of the box to escape.

I'm sure this must be crystal clear. Really.

Rory

kusanku · Post by **kusanku** » Wed Aug 09, 2000 6:02 am

Also Ten Directons of Unbalance. The Happ No Kuzushi plus straight up and straight down.

Kusanku

Post by **gmattson** » Wed Aug 09, 2000 12:47 pm

Rory:
If you send a jpg of any image you wish posted, Scott can insert it in your posts.

BTW, Interesting topics.
Scott's email address is: scotttd@earthlink.com

Best,
George

kusanku · Post by **kusanku** » Thu Aug 10, 2000 9:32 am

Rory: Go ahead and send them diagrams, diagrams are good for learning jiujitsu for sure.

Hey-have you by chance got the diagram for the roppo no kuzushi as well as the happo no? Might be interesting to have both.

I just combine 'em into ten but it makes a terrible diagram that way.

These are quite intersting subjects as they are foundation principles of ancient martial jiujitsu and also can apply to weapons arts.

You got tai sabaki charts also?

Kusanku

mikemurphy · Post by **mikemurphy** » Thu Aug 10, 2000 12:18 pm

Kusanku,

I have a diagram for the taisabaki we practice in Nihon Jujitsu (Shizuya Sato Sensei style) if you would like to see it. I'll have to check with Mattson sensei to see how I can post it on the forum though.

mike

kusanku · Post by **kusanku** » Fri Aug 11, 2000 4:10 am

Mike-
Would like very much to see the Nihon Jujitsu Tai sabaki diagram if there is any way for you to post it on here.

This sort of thing is fundamental information many would enjoy seeing.

The Daito ryu have some such diagrams but are notoriously tight about letting them see the light of day.Forttunately I have a miners headlamp and a lot of patience.:-)

They wouldn't let me copy the papers though so I don't know if my memory serves on these.

Of course the Judo tai sabaki is given in Kodokan Judo, and is deceptively simple and very effective as we all know from experience.

Gotta say, Judo is an effective system.Not much in the way of hidden secrets simply because they made what had been those into the fundamentals of their teaching system.

hadn't beemn for the overemphasis on tournament winning, they would still be just about number one worldwide because of this.Not because they are intrinsically better than other systems, they are not, but because they have no secrets whatever, all is openly taught. A esso for others f us to follow perhaps?

hey are we off-topic? Waait a minute- yes, I would like to see the diagrams.

Kusanku

kusanku · Post by **kusanku** » Sat Aug 19, 2000 10:11 am

So, is it possibe to post these diagrams or is it not?

Footwork diagrams are of the utom=most interest.

Kusanku

dmsdc · Post by **dmsdc** » Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:08 pm

There's a possibliity he'sstill on vacation from camp. I myself just returned 2 days ago.

I too would love to see the diagrahams so I hope he returns and posts them soon.

I have only a very small background in grappling but your "straight up and straight down" addition has posed this question to me.

How is the third demention of the box determined. Does it stop at the dan tien or does it go higher?

many thanks,

Dana Sheets

kusanku · Post by **kusanku** » Sun Aug 20, 2000 9:24 pm

Dana:'How is the third dimension of the box determined? Does it stop at the dan tien or does it go higher?'

Well, Dana, its flexible.The straight up and down unbalancing is any wway you do it. If a person comes in much taller than you, and they pull or lift you up, they can lift as high or throw as high as they can. In Judo, I've been thrown into the ceiling lights on at least two occasions.

As for the straight down unbalancing, there is a throw from jujitsu done in aikido called aikinage where you bow down right across your attckers path as they come in and they literally throw themselves over you.

Too, there is the leg grab takedowns, which unbalance you downward by virtue of the hold on the leg, and that can be straight down.

Best to think not of a box but a sphere, around your entire body, and going as far out as the other person can get to you from, or farther.

Now defend it.

kusanku

dmsdc · Post by **dmsdc** » Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:03 am

kusanku,

Thank you for the image. It works well in my mind.

I am still at the point in my training where I over-estimate the size of my sphere and will respond to attacks that would never reach me or do me harm.

In moving from Judo to Uechi-ryu I noticed that my sphere became smaller, but it is still a bit larger than it should be.

The gift of perfect distancing is not yet mine.

many thanks,

Dana Sheets

Post by **gmattson** » Mon Aug 21, 2000 2:33 pm

Directions for posting an image:

A: If you have a site:
1. Upload the image to your site.
2. Refer to the address of the image in your post. Use the UBB code.

B: If you do not have a site:
1. e-mail the image to Scott at:
scotttd@earthlink.com
2. In your e-mail, tell us where you wish the image to be placed.

------------------
GEM

Lori · Post by **Lori** » Mon Aug 21, 2000 2:49 pm

addendum to those directions:

When referring to the address of the image within your post - you can only use UBB code if the address begins with "http:"

If it is on an FTP site you MUST use HTML because the UBB upgrade doesn't work with an FTP address - once posting in HTML it will convert to UBB code - but using UBB initially with an FTP address will only frustrate you!

kusanku · Post by **kusanku** » Mon Aug 21, 2000 6:55 pm

Thanks for directions for images, George, and Lori. Dan- you are welcome, that precise distancing is a skill that with practice will become more precise as you focus on becoming the exact center of your sphere.

Don't have any better way to say this one.

Kusanku

mikemurphy · Post by **mikemurphy** » Mon Aug 21, 2000 8:05 pm

Kusanku,

I apologize for not getting back to this post as I was trying to catch up with things after our recent summer camp last weekend. OHHHH, what an event. Now I'm off to PA for a seminar for a new friend found at camp this weekend. If only there were another 12 hours in a day.

Anyway, I really have no way of getting that diagram on the web; however, it is probably better explained verbally anyways.

I won't use any Japanese as I'm not sure how many people are comfortable with it.

1. After formal bowing in, student steps from a neutral stance using his left foot back to a neutral stance, and then does it a second time. Hands are in a loose, comfortable position near the belt knot.

2. The feet movement is the same pattern.
A. Slide to the left and back to start
B. Slide to the right and back to start.
C. Slide with the left leg forward until you are perpendicular (facing the right from where you started) to where you started and return to start.
D. Slide with right leg forward until you are perpendicular (facing the left from where you started) to where you started and then return to start.
E. Slide your right leg back and to your left so that you will be in a left T-stance (sword art T-stance). Return to the starting position.
F. Slide your left leg back back and to your right so that you will be in a right T-Stance. Return to the starting position.

This progression is done a total of four times through:

1. The first time through it is done with just stances.
2. The second time through it is done with blocks (shuto [knife-hand) strike variations).
3. The third time through it is done with low blocks and double handed shuto.
4. The last time through it is done with kicks and knee strikes.

Shiyuza Sato sensei has a tape out on Panther Productions if you are interested in seeing the Nihon Jujitsu style.

mike

kusanku · Post by **kusanku** » Tue Aug 22, 2000 9:34 am

Thank you, Mike!

Very informtive, and I may check out the tape!

Always like to learn good stuff.

Kusanku