I was reading another thread in the SEEKING THE BRIDGE section on knife training.
In the Dai Yoshin Ryu Aikijutsu (taught by Rod Sacharnoski) they teach alot of unusual knife (Tanto) techniques. One of the basic concepts they teach is that when throwing to the front (like an ogoshi hip throw) your knife technique would be directed to the body - as this will often double them forward. If you are planning on throwing to the rear (like Osotogeri) then the knife attack should be to the head/face - which will move them backwards. The throw follows the momentum. The knife technique is something of a Kuzushi.
The same is true to hand attacks - punch the body to double them forward for throws that are to the front, and punch to the face for throws to the rear.
The knife and throwing
The knife and throwing
Hmm,
Maybe I don't get what you are describing, but it sounds like one could end-up with blood in the eyes (profoundly unpleasent) with these methods... do you guys train with shaken soda cans?
Be well,
Jigme
------------------
Jigme Chobang
aikibudokai@yahoo.com
Maybe I don't get what you are describing, but it sounds like one could end-up with blood in the eyes (profoundly unpleasent) with these methods... do you guys train with shaken soda cans?
Be well,
Jigme
------------------
Jigme Chobang
aikibudokai@yahoo.com
-
Bruise Lee
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2000 6:01 am
The knife and throwing
Jigme (I hope you don't mind me assuming we are on a first name basis),
I guess my point is regarding the use of the knife and reactive biomechanics. I have seen waza in which the defender counters with a strike to the head and then throws the attacker forward. With no contact this looks good. However if real contact had been applied the head strike would have sent the attackers momentum backwards. Instead of fighting this, we choose to simply throw to the rear. I was opening the discussion to the knife in relation to this, and sharing something we were taught in our system.
I am unsure how to take your "shaken soda can" comment. I am not sure if that is a funny, or if you actually train with a shaken soda can for some reason. I can tell you this - a shaken soda can (especially if it is real hot) is an excellent gun target. It really explodes in a cool way.
PS - I noticed when describing this that I mention Judo throws while discussing an Aiki system. I am not sure why I did this except perhaps I thought the Judo throws (like Ogoshi) would be more familiar. I think more people are familiar with Judo type throws then the Aiki throws (like Irimi nage)
I guess my point is regarding the use of the knife and reactive biomechanics. I have seen waza in which the defender counters with a strike to the head and then throws the attacker forward. With no contact this looks good. However if real contact had been applied the head strike would have sent the attackers momentum backwards. Instead of fighting this, we choose to simply throw to the rear. I was opening the discussion to the knife in relation to this, and sharing something we were taught in our system.
I am unsure how to take your "shaken soda can" comment. I am not sure if that is a funny, or if you actually train with a shaken soda can for some reason. I can tell you this - a shaken soda can (especially if it is real hot) is an excellent gun target. It really explodes in a cool way.
PS - I noticed when describing this that I mention Judo throws while discussing an Aiki system. I am not sure why I did this except perhaps I thought the Judo throws (like Ogoshi) would be more familiar. I think more people are familiar with Judo type throws then the Aiki throws (like Irimi nage)
The knife and throwing
Hello again,
Thank you for your response. In no particular order:
Yup, I was serious about training with shaken soda cans. Taped to a training partner's body, it requires precise targeting (lest you slip and cut him/her), but also simulates the spray of blood from arterial cuts (don't do it with orange or grape soda... painful). It is a useful device for training to keep major bleeding off of you while applying the knife.
Hmm, as for hitting being kuzushi, I'll certainly not argue that it does, but direction can be chosen. The application of direct force on a body speeding toward you does not *always* result in that body being repelled. In fact there are ways of getting his/her body to accelerate, or turn angles (this is not to discount going with an established direction, just throwing up more stuff to discuss).
And by all means, please do call me Jigme (everybody does... except for the people that call me clueless, or crusty, or over-opinionated, or foot-in-mouth-guy or....)
Be well,
Jigme
------------------
Jigme Chobang
aikibudokai@yahoo.com
Thank you for your response. In no particular order:
Yup, I was serious about training with shaken soda cans. Taped to a training partner's body, it requires precise targeting (lest you slip and cut him/her), but also simulates the spray of blood from arterial cuts (don't do it with orange or grape soda... painful). It is a useful device for training to keep major bleeding off of you while applying the knife.
Hmm, as for hitting being kuzushi, I'll certainly not argue that it does, but direction can be chosen. The application of direct force on a body speeding toward you does not *always* result in that body being repelled. In fact there are ways of getting his/her body to accelerate, or turn angles (this is not to discount going with an established direction, just throwing up more stuff to discuss).
And by all means, please do call me Jigme (everybody does... except for the people that call me clueless, or crusty, or over-opinionated, or foot-in-mouth-guy or....)
Be well,
Jigme
------------------
Jigme Chobang
aikibudokai@yahoo.com
-
Bruise Lee
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2000 6:01 am
The knife and throwing
LOL..... I put my feet in my mouth so much that it is almost aerobic exercise, I just alternate feet.
That is a very interesting exercise. Thank you for sharing it with me. I once wrote an article for DePasquales Karate International about avoiding bloodborne pathogens in fights but had not considered this. No doubt a person would want to avoid Hepatitis B while fighting.
Can I ask if you speak from practical experience. I have never seen anyone slashed thusly in real life. I have seen a stabbing but they did not squirt. I have seen peoples legs slashed in accidents, and they squirted...but not of the magnitude I would expect of a shaken soda can. I know several people who have used a knife in combat or defense (one person by slashing the other soldiers throat) and will have to ask them. I have never considered this before and you have certainly given me some food for thought.
That is a very interesting exercise. Thank you for sharing it with me. I once wrote an article for DePasquales Karate International about avoiding bloodborne pathogens in fights but had not considered this. No doubt a person would want to avoid Hepatitis B while fighting.
Can I ask if you speak from practical experience. I have never seen anyone slashed thusly in real life. I have seen a stabbing but they did not squirt. I have seen peoples legs slashed in accidents, and they squirted...but not of the magnitude I would expect of a shaken soda can. I know several people who have used a knife in combat or defense (one person by slashing the other soldiers throat) and will have to ask them. I have never considered this before and you have certainly given me some food for thought.
The knife and throwing
Nope,
I have been lucky enough to have never cut anyone but myself. While working as a chef, I took off the tip of my left index finger. Didn't panic, booted it down to the hospital, and waited for an hour to be seen. When the triage nurse removed my wrapping job, the finger started spurting (with every contraction of my heart) between 6" and 2 feet (man, was she suprised
).
[typo above, sorry]
I have though seen though one guy with an arterial cut, and it did spray (direct pressure failed and he bled out before he got to the hospital...). Ugly stuff!
Be well,
Jigme
------------------
Jigme Chobang
aikibudokai@yahoo.com
[This message has been edited by kenkyusha (edited October 30, 2000).]
I have been lucky enough to have never cut anyone but myself. While working as a chef, I took off the tip of my left index finger. Didn't panic, booted it down to the hospital, and waited for an hour to be seen. When the triage nurse removed my wrapping job, the finger started spurting (with every contraction of my heart) between 6" and 2 feet (man, was she suprised
).[typo above, sorry]
I have though seen though one guy with an arterial cut, and it did spray (direct pressure failed and he bled out before he got to the hospital...). Ugly stuff!
Be well,
Jigme
------------------
Jigme Chobang
aikibudokai@yahoo.com
[This message has been edited by kenkyusha (edited October 30, 2000).]
