Who is Farrakhan?

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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Panther »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ian:
Seems a *little* short sighted just to legalize all drugs and then punish people for committing the inevitable crimes that result, doesn't it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty big assumption that there will be an "inevitable" increase in crimes because of ending the war on drugs.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
A bunch won't be caught, and for each crime there's a victim.
A bunch of criminals don't get caught now... and there are such things as "victimless" crimes.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Feeds the rot at the centers of some communities and limits the opportunities of everyone that's born there, lives there, tries to run a business there. Contributes to *their* drug use and continuation of a cycle. Although of course it would ultimately be their *fault* that they used drugs on an individual level, rest assured that on a city wide level the resultant problems would be easily predicted.
I don't "rest assured" of any such thing. There is no basis for your argument. In fact, the basis to refute your argument is the historical example of the repeal of Prohibition! Alcohol consumption became no more or less "rampant" than before the repeal, but the price dropped... meaning that those who had/were becoming wealthy because it was contraband had their high priced market dry up literally over-night! Those who had used alcohol before, continued... and those who did not, continued to abstain. I hope you don't really believe that by making drugs "legal" you would increase addiction problems. The historical facts from the repeal of Prohibition show us that public drunkeness was no more of a problem after than it was during or before! AND prior to the end of Prohibition, many of the drugs that are illegal now were available... and there was no historically higher drug addiction problem. Certainly there were people who became addicted prior to the statues against some drugs... a prime example being laudanum. However, there were many people who self-medicated using laudanum without any problems. If mere addiction was the issue, then logic would say that the drug nicotine would be outlawed as well. Than again, I'm not convinced that we aren't on that slippery slope already... but the government's monetary agreement (which they are clamoring to get as much mullah out of as possible) with the tabacco companies depends on increased sales! Many of the organized crime problems which grew out of Prohibition began to take care of themselves when FDR took office and booze was re-legalized in 1933... But then a year later, the new laws regulating opiates (which have expanded exponentially, BTW) were passed giving organized crime the smuggling and black markets that they had become so proficient in and that their profits so heavily relied on. You can attempt to make this a "class" issue all you want, but the fact is that middle-class suburban America has a big "drug problem" as well... And the wealthy, while being able to afford to pay someone else to purchase and thus avoiding the fall if that person is caught, have been able to afford and partake of whatever their current "drug of choice" is, for decades... Don't think there's a drug problem in that group? I seem to read on a fairly regular basis about yet another wealthy socialite or entertainment type who is "checking into" or has been checked into rehab! Addictions, whether they are from opiates, alcohol, nicotine, or other drugs cross all social boundaries.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I AM for legalizing drugs, but with the caveat that the money being wasted on intercepting drugs be turned to treatment and education and prevention, so that some of these results are avoided.
At least we agree that they should be legalized. Image Perhaps to pay for treatment, there should be the same type of sliding scale for payments that we see in other areas. Perhaps to increase education, some of those wealthy entertainment types could do a few more PSAs for gratis... Then again, perhaps we could educate on the local level in churches, synagogues, mosques and within our own neighborhoods, families and friends...

Take care...
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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Deep Sea »

Panther, can you just IMAGINE the tax base drug legalization create as well as an entirely new class of jobs for the unemployed??? I'll bet crime would drop WAY DOWN if that happened. Image

I have a question for you, Panther. You mentioned that most on welfare and living in the Ghettos were not black but white. White is caucasian, but are you grouping hispanics in??? I see four major demographic groups which are quite distinct from each other: White (caucasian), orientals, blacks, and hispanics.

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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Leon DaDamaga »

First of all thank you for the welcome Panther. There should be more people discussing issues in this group. I have been to projects in New York, Toronto and New Orleans and rarely did I see a white person. Where are the projects that you are talking about? I would suspect that every major city would have "PJ'S", and the prodominently black cities ( Atlanta, Cleveland, New York)would have a larger base of poor black people. Thus, more blacks in the projects. You are absolutely right about the drugs, Don't use and you have no drug problem, but that seems to be over simplifying it. I have a friend who's wife is on crystal meth and trying to kick it. Her will isn't as strong as the drugs pull. I would love to see some stats on how many addicts successfully kick the habit. This is by far the best discussion group on this site.

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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Deep Sea »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
There should be more people discussing issues in this group.
They won't Leon, because they are afraid.

Sorry to hear about your friend's wife Leon. Many years ago, I had a near and dear friend once who let her life destroy itself, as well as left permanent scars on the one who loved her most, by her addiction to speed. So when I wrote about legalizing drugs, my words had in the neighborhood of 30 years of forethought.


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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Leon DaDamaga »

Deep Sea, please don't get me wrong I am all for the decriminalization of "natural" drugs. I think if prisons were giving prisoners rations of weed, that the in house violence and the crime would drop dramatically. Then there is the issue of going to jail just to get high, but it would make it safer and may help with rehab. The use of mushrooms and peyote has been around long before modern laws. I actually saw a documentary on a war that england lost in africa, the africans were armed with spears and primative weapons, yet they still beat the english. It turned out that the africas were on a mushroom that made them uninhibited. they did a test with two judo practitioners of equal skill, and the one on the mushrooms beat the other 10-0. Plus, then the canadian government can lower may tax rate from 50% - 33% to say 25% - 10%.

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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Panther »

Wow! Turn my back to focus on something else for just a second and... Image

Leon, thanks for the kind words... I say that more whites (caucasians) are on welfare and in the projects because of observation and numbers I saw a few years ago from the US Dept of Health & Human Services... (I think) The numbers were nationwide and not specific to any geographic location. Many people don't even realize that there are projects in some places. What I mean is that in Newton & Wellesley Massachusetts (where I worked and lived at one point) there are low-income/welfare housing projects in both towns. (In fact, there are legal guidelines codified in Mass General Laws {MGL} that specifically state the ratio of low-income housing that towns should/must have... but I digress...) Anyway, in both of those "projects" the tenants are predominantly "white"... on the order of 80+%! Also, even in Worcester at the infamous Great Brook Valley projects, the mix is about 1/2 "white"... There are certain areas where the projects are predominantly black and certain areas where they are predominantly white... and others in between. But the overall statistics show that most people (contrary to popular belief) who are on welfare, are white... as you would expect. I believe that there are a disproportionate percentage of minorities trapped on the poverty roles, but given the population numbers, it only makes sense statistically that there would be more whites there in shear numbers...

To answer Allen's question, I place Hispanic as a separate minority...

Leon, I'm sorry to hear about your friend... crystal meth is a tough one. I haven't had to deal with that one personally. I did help someone go clean from heroin once... That was six weeks of hell... Ultimately, they needed to run with a different crowd to stay clean. Last I hear he'd moved to the northwest, in the middle of nowhere, had a family and had been clean for over 20 years... He (just like an alcoholic) says that he isn't cured, just has to stay away from the stuff. If she truly wants to kick it... and I'm sure she does... IMNSHO, her loved ones are the best to help her. Her husband, her family, her friends, her church, etc... and sometimes it means that really hard decisions have to be made... such as the decision to pack everyone up and get away from the situation they're in. I don't know, but if they live in an area (such as my friend did) where others have abundant access to this stuff, then that move to the far reaches of civilization might be in order. That's tough, but then again, it is a life or death decision. I don't have any stats on how many addicts kick it... I've seen a few who have and many who haven't. I don't know what to tell you on that, there are others with way more qualifications than I have...

As far as the prison population goes... I think we could significantly reduce the prison population by legalization of drugs and ending the "war on {some} drugs". Did you know that if you're caught with cocaine (the choice of white suburbia) that you get one sentence, but that Federal sentencing guidelines for getting caught with an even smaller amount of "crack" (which is made from cocaine and is the choice of the minority inner-city populations) are 10X... yes, ten times the time! Now, that's something that people should think about!

if drugs were legalized, their cost would drop and those that want them won't have to commit the crimes they currently do to get the money to pay the gangsta who has to push that profit up the food chain! That fact was shown with the repeal of Prohibition and there's nothing to say that it won't work with the current drug prohibition as well.

And on the taxes... Leon, don't bother heading south from Canada to get any tax relief... there isn't any in the States either. Image

Take care...
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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Panther »

WOW! I figured this was the best thread to place this....

<hr>

Jessie Jackson has added former Chicago democratic congressman Mel Reynolds to Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll. You remember Reynolds, he was among the 176 criminals excused in President Clinton's last-minute forgiveness spree.

Well, you'll never guess what Reynolds received a commutation of his six-and-a-half-year federal sentence for... 15 convictions of wire fraud, bank fraud and lies to the Federal Election Commission. However, he is more notorious for concurrently serving five years for sleeping with an underage campaign volunteer!

So... This is a first in America:

An ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate, won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate, and then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate!

Care to take guess what Reynold's new job is?

Youth counselor!

In the words of Yakov Smirnov, "What a country!"
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Post by Ian »

"Pretty big assumption that there will be an "inevitable" increase in crimes because of ending the war on drugs."

Well, what I meant was that if drugs are legalized, there will be some crimes committed that otherwise wouldn't. Some people who might be scared away by the illegality or health risks will try it in a legal and clean setting and then some will become addicted and some will steal to pay for their habit. Perhaps the total number of crimes will stay the same or go down. But this doesn't mean we can ignore the culpability in the crimes that are manufactured by legalizing the drugs, just like we can't go killing one person for their organs and just looking at the bottom of the balance sheet for lives lost and saved. If you said otherwise, you wouldn't be our individualistic panther.

"...and there are such things as "victimless" crimes."

Well, perhaps--but not if we work on eliminating them. Drug use in itself is a victimless crime now, when it's legalized it'll just be legal, but the crimes committed to finance the habits WILL all have victims and those are the ones I'm referring to.

"I hope you don't really believe that by making drugs "legal" you would increase addiction problems."

Maybe not overall, especially if we take the measures I mentioned instead of just putting the stuff out there. But I don't think we can just legalizing drugs without any supervision (on purity, standardization, public health measures like needle exchange etc) and I don't think we can participate in the latter without being cognizant that the materials we're distributing destroy lives, and making an effort to do something about that. (Fire away panther, feel free to indicate its all a matter of persnal choice, which is all well and good and represents a tiny minority view on this matter). You want to be minimalistic about it, put warning labels on it as for cigs and booze. But excepting pot, shrooms and the like, the drugs that'd be legalized can ruin a life a lot faster than alcohol and cigs usually do. And so I think a little more effort is in order.

"The historical facts from the repeal of Prohibition show us that public drunkeness was no more of a problem after than it was during or before!"

Ok....

"AND prior to the end of Prohibition, many of the drugs that are illegal now were available..."

Yes and no. People have been chewing coca leaves for ages, people haven't been smoking crack pipes for nearly as long. Even the pot of the 60's is drastically different today.

"...then logic would say that the drug nicotine would be outlawed as well. Than again, I'm not convinced that we aren't on that slippery slope already..."

A whole other thread altogether. First, I'm advocating legalization here, so not sure what the first half is about. I think smoking should remain legal with substantial restrictions on the efforts smokable drug companies like Phillip Morris make to get young people to adopt a practice that's addictive and leads to their illness and death, ust for some $. And I believe in sin taxes. Since we're discussing restictions and their effect on usage, there's good data that increasing cig prices drives smoking down, and that's only good news for me. I think it's moolah, mullahs being islamic leaders, btw. Image

"You can attempt to make this a "class" issue all you want, but the fact is that middle-class suburban America has a big "drug problem" as well..."

Sure both communities use drugs. Equivalent issue? Far from it. You think those are all white bread suburban boys getting AIDS from needles? You think all those crack babies were born to Harvard grads? Attempt made.

"Don't think there's a drug problem in that group? I seem to read on a fairly regular basis about yet another wealthy socialite or entertainment type who is "checking into" or has been checked into rehab!"

Yep, they sure do. However, lifestyles of the rich and famous is not the demographic group I was thinking about. It makes me retch to hear about the tribulations of being insanely wealthy and famous and how it leads to substance abuse. These truly ARE people who have no excuse. Yet, they're still not writing E! pieces about Ms. Smith from middle america.

"Then again, perhaps we could educate on the local level in churches, synagogues, mosques and within our own neighborhoods, families and friends..."

Those institutions are in place now, what's going to change their effectiveness? You want to reach drug users, you go to the place they're handing out drugs for use, and you find more of them. A little honesty in gov't programs would be nice for a change, instead of, for example, letting religious groups and other lobbies dumb down AIDS education efforts, making the issue one of nationwide education when everyone knew who was truly at risk and who needed targeted efforts.

Here's a little something I was exposed to in elementary school--they took some (the "honors" kids, I guess the rest they didn't care about)--and had us meet with a pathologist who brought us bags of rotted lungs and enormous cancers from recently deceased smokers. We got to touch these completely revolting specimens and I was DONE with smoking for life. A little box of text on the side of a pack doesn't constitute a warning. I know people who continue smoking when they truly understand the risks, and by that I mean when they're riddled with cancer or struggling with emphysema. Or after a big MI. But they're generally depressive addictive people who've given up on their health. The kids who start generally don't know what they're getting into. They think it's cool and they can put it down when they want. That's not free choice. I think it's great if people ruin their lives--once they know, truly, what they're getting into. Otherwise we just pat ourselves on the back, celebrate the individualism while people develop haits that kill them. *I'm* the one who gets to see them dissolve and gasp too. Celebrating THAT isn't the doctorly thing for me to do. (It's not the Christian thing for christians to do, either, where that applies, and that is the #1 demographic group reading these forums isn't it? Think Jesus would just say, "cool, light up, you made yer own bed now?")

We had this same basic discussion before about a dangerous turn in Canada where that bus from MA flipped and killed some kids. The point was made that individuals make mistakes, not roads, not signs. My point was that these innocent kids were DEAD or MAIMED and their lives and the lives of the people that loved them were changed forever. And that the right amount of warnings on the road was NOT the amount that would allow us to say everyone who died there was properly warned, and made their own mistakes--but the amount that was necessary to keep people safe. And so it is with drugs. Just saying "they were warned" and throwing up your hands doesn't cut it. Here there have to be results.
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Post by Deep Sea »

Not to worry, Leon; I read you right. Sometimes reading that someone has been through or been near similar tough times, is a good thing.


Thanks for the info, Panther. I'm glad you kept the two ethnic groups seperate, not as they are doing in California to mask the fact that that state, as has much of the Southwest, has been overrun with illegal aliens. I just like to know the accuracy of a valid count before I start formulating opinions on certain issues.

I was reading some other stuff about jj the other day that had to do with our involvement in Iraq.
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Post by Ian »

What do you do with multi-ethnic people? Log them under multiple groups? What do you do with confusing realities like white people darker than some black people? Or as much diversity among peoples grouped as one race as between? Or with the inability of science to identify any objective way to distinguish the races?
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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Leon DaDamaga »

I am under the impression, that if you have 1/10 th black in you, you are legally black.

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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Guest »

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Leon DaDamaga:
I am under the impression, that if you have 1/10 th black in you, you are legally black.
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Where are these racial statutes kept? Who pased them into law? Are these laws of race in Canada, the USA , or somewhere in the third world?

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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Leon DaDamaga »

I was told that by a girlfriend from New jersey. I'm not saying it is fact, but nothing suprises me when it comes to laws. There is a federal law in Canada from the 1800's that is still legal, it reads something like: Any more than three indians, riding on horse back, crossing a river is considered a war party and can be shot on site. This is still law. Laird you sure seem to get around.

Leon

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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Leon DaDamaga »

JAMA article "Medicine Against Society":

As the Nazis radicalized the eugenics and race hygiene movements, the U.S. efforts were regarded as models to be used in developing their own race policies.... German racial theorists clearly believed it was important to focus especially on the United States to argue that Germany was not alone in its efforts to protect and preserve racial purity.[759]

From the book The Nazi Doctors:

German racial hygienists throughout the... period expressed their envy of American achievements in this area, warning that unless the Germans made progress in this field, America would become the world's racial leader.[760]

Nazi physicians on more than one occasion argued that the German racial policies were relatively 'liberal' compared with the treatment of Blacks in the United States... [where] a person with 1/32nd black ancestry was legally black, whereas if someone was 1/8th Jewish in Germany... that person was legally Aryan.

In 1938, German physicians barred Jews from practicing medicine. In 1939, Germany's leading racial hygiene journal reported the refusal of the American Medical Association to admit Black physicians to its membership; 5000 Black physicians had petitioned to join the all-white American body but were turned down.

from http://upalumni.org/medschool/appendices/appendix-65a.html
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Leon DaDamaga
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Who is Farrakhan?

Post by Leon DaDamaga »

DIRECTOR
Dr. Thomas Fick, Professor of English
Southeastern Louisiana University

THE INSTITUTE
The topic of this Institute can be suggested by a brief historical anecdote. In 1982 Susie Phipps went to court to have her racial designation changed from "colored" to "white." Phipps, who looked white and thought of herself as white, had been declared "colored" under a 1970 Louisiana statute that made anyone with 1/32 or more "Negro blood" legally black. Although Phipps lost her suit, the 1970 statute was repealed a year later.
This case is only one recent indication of just how important racial identity has been in Louisiana for more than two hundred years. Dramas of racial, ethnic, and regional identity have defined Louisiana history and society, and have played an essential role in works by Louisiana writers like George W. Cable, Kate Chopin, Ernest Gaines, Tim Gautreaux, Sybil Kein, and Brenda Osbey as well as in many works about Louisiana by writers such as Charles Chesnutt, Harriet Beecher Stowe, and Alice Jones. The goal of this Institute is to explore the interconnections among race, region, and identity through an examination of the literature, art, history, and music of the region. We will pay particular attention to the Afro-Creole community, both past and present, and its intersections with Anglo, white Creole, Native American, and Cajun populations.



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