I live in a socialist country and I have travelled the world. I always come back home because I haven't found a place that is better. Norway, Canada and Australia all practice some form of socialism and the U.N. racks them the top three countries to live in. Please explain to me the benefits of living in a completely democratic society, since I don't happen to live in one I really don't know.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/07 ... index.html
http://www.english-vancouver.com/canada ... velopment/
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/200 ... O4XOC.html
A bomb a day....
Leon,
Perhaps you misread of misunderstood. I don't believe one should live in a completely democratic society. The USA was founded as a Constitutional Republic not a democracy. We have been pushed down the slippery-slope of "democracy", but that's not what we started out as. To give an old analogy of the difference: A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner... a Constitutional Republic is two wolves voting to have the sheep for dinner and finding a well-informed, well-armed sheep telling them they aren't allowed to infringe on its inalienable Rights! I have no use and even less respect for the opinions of the UN. The UN is dominated by Communists and Socialists. The US should get out of the UN and kick them out of our country. Simply because we don't call it socialism, doesn't mean that the US doesn't practice forms of it as well. Democracy always leads to socialism as soon as enough of the population realize that they can vote themselves "benefits" from the wallets of the rest of the population. The working people of the countries you mention (as well as many others, including the US) have the fruits of their labor (in various percentages) forceably stolen from them and given to others. That's socialism. If 100% of the fruits of your labors are taken that isn't just socialism, that's slavery. In countries such as Norway where the tax rate is somewhere in the 70-90+% range, your still 70=90+% a slave. And in the US where most of the population ends up having 25-50+% taken from them, people are still 25-50+% slaves. Governments forceably take an enormous amount away from the working citizenry and redistribute it among those that don't work or work less. Certainly there are those that, for various reasons, can't work... and I don't have a problem with them being helped. However, it has been proven in every communist/socialist government experiment undertaken that the overall end result is that a portion (generally a rather large portion) of the population makes the decision to stop working so hard since any extra that is gained is merely confiscated and given to someone who doesn't work as hard. That is why the USA is so much "richer" than any other nation. I know quite a few people who have moved to the US from Norway, Denmark, Austrailia, and even Canada in order to escape the enormous tax burden of their native country. Well... to be honest, one Canadian friend in particular moved to the US to escape the "socialized medicine" monster. She'd rather have her health insurance and get the best medical care in the world than the socialized alternative. They each understand that socialism only works for the mediocre (or less) of society and since they are all successful, hardworking people, they would rather keep the fruits of their labors, pay for what they need and give to charity to help those who are truly in need. Prior to the US starting the democratic slide to socialism, those who were lazy perished and those who truly needed help turned to community, church and family. Once the government started forcing working people to give to the lazy, donations to charity in the US fell dramatically simply because the government required the money and redistributed it as the government saw fit. The reason there is a backlash against such "entitlement programs" in the US is that working people resent those who live off of them rather than do for themselves. I could go on and on, but I've been working most of the night and really need to get to bed.
Take care and be good to yourself...
Perhaps you misread of misunderstood. I don't believe one should live in a completely democratic society. The USA was founded as a Constitutional Republic not a democracy. We have been pushed down the slippery-slope of "democracy", but that's not what we started out as. To give an old analogy of the difference: A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner... a Constitutional Republic is two wolves voting to have the sheep for dinner and finding a well-informed, well-armed sheep telling them they aren't allowed to infringe on its inalienable Rights! I have no use and even less respect for the opinions of the UN. The UN is dominated by Communists and Socialists. The US should get out of the UN and kick them out of our country. Simply because we don't call it socialism, doesn't mean that the US doesn't practice forms of it as well. Democracy always leads to socialism as soon as enough of the population realize that they can vote themselves "benefits" from the wallets of the rest of the population. The working people of the countries you mention (as well as many others, including the US) have the fruits of their labor (in various percentages) forceably stolen from them and given to others. That's socialism. If 100% of the fruits of your labors are taken that isn't just socialism, that's slavery. In countries such as Norway where the tax rate is somewhere in the 70-90+% range, your still 70=90+% a slave. And in the US where most of the population ends up having 25-50+% taken from them, people are still 25-50+% slaves. Governments forceably take an enormous amount away from the working citizenry and redistribute it among those that don't work or work less. Certainly there are those that, for various reasons, can't work... and I don't have a problem with them being helped. However, it has been proven in every communist/socialist government experiment undertaken that the overall end result is that a portion (generally a rather large portion) of the population makes the decision to stop working so hard since any extra that is gained is merely confiscated and given to someone who doesn't work as hard. That is why the USA is so much "richer" than any other nation. I know quite a few people who have moved to the US from Norway, Denmark, Austrailia, and even Canada in order to escape the enormous tax burden of their native country. Well... to be honest, one Canadian friend in particular moved to the US to escape the "socialized medicine" monster. She'd rather have her health insurance and get the best medical care in the world than the socialized alternative. They each understand that socialism only works for the mediocre (or less) of society and since they are all successful, hardworking people, they would rather keep the fruits of their labors, pay for what they need and give to charity to help those who are truly in need. Prior to the US starting the democratic slide to socialism, those who were lazy perished and those who truly needed help turned to community, church and family. Once the government started forcing working people to give to the lazy, donations to charity in the US fell dramatically simply because the government required the money and redistributed it as the government saw fit. The reason there is a backlash against such "entitlement programs" in the US is that working people resent those who live off of them rather than do for themselves. I could go on and on, but I've been working most of the night and really need to get to bed.
Take care and be good to yourself...
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Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
Panther,
At the least, I would say it is highly debatable whether or not the following is true......
oh, and I was implying that .......one need not employ logic as when those you may be arguing with, when they run out of any actual information/arguments, will just rely on whatever foul language pops into their head.....so why use logic when in the end, some just seem to end up with f*** this and f*** that........so much for logic.........but then again, if I had to spell it out......(anybody know what I am implying here?)
ATH
At the least, I would say it is highly debatable whether or not the following is true......
I wont be holding my breath while you and I wait to see the next time some poor mixed breed kid is elected president of this land.......nope, the major pre-requisite for becoming president is a c average from the nation's premiere educational institutions and ......oh yeah, it helps if your daddy was president before........but the fact is that a poor mixed-breed kid from the wrong side of the tracks can break out of that and make a better life. It just takes hard work, perseverance and a little luck.
oh, and I was implying that .......one need not employ logic as when those you may be arguing with, when they run out of any actual information/arguments, will just rely on whatever foul language pops into their head.....so why use logic when in the end, some just seem to end up with f*** this and f*** that........so much for logic.........but then again, if I had to spell it out......(anybody know what I am implying here?)
ATH
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
ATH,Akil Todd Harvey wrote: I wont be holding my breath while you and I wait to see the next time some poor mixed breed kid is elected president of this land.......nope, the major pre-requisite for becoming president is a c average from the nation's premiere educational institutions and ......oh yeah, it helps if your daddy was president before........
I don't think there is a requirement to become POTUS in order to make my comment true. There are many, many examples of those from less fortunate backgrounds breaking the social strata that they're born into. Regardless of whether one is a Republicrat or a Demopublican or something else politically, this is the first time that the POTUS' father was also a POTUS. Yet, I don't dispute that those who are politically connected in a certain way are the ones that magically get elected. The previous POTUS was provably a traitor and committed crimes which others have and are doing hard time for. The current POTUS and his father have questionable actions in their history to say the least. None of that lessens the statement that I made.
I would hope that it is evident that on this forum I expect people to make reasoned discussions of their opinions and back those positions up with sources and cites. I completely understand people being and getting passionate about their opinions and positions, but tossing logic out the window without some caveat isn't something I like to see. Additionally, namecalling and gratuitous foul-language isn't tolerated. There have been many people and many times that I've disagreed with others on these forums, but I've had a drink and shared a hug with more than one of them. If you feel that I have been unfair and allowed logic to get tossed, allowed namecalling, or some thing else troubles you about this forum, please feel free to send me a PM and I will respond.oh, and I was implying that .......one need not employ logic as when those you may be arguing with, when they run out of any actual information/arguments, will just rely on whatever foul language pops into their head.....so why use logic when in the end, some just seem to end up with f*** this and f*** that........so much for logic.........but then again, if I had to spell it out......(anybody know what I am implying here?)
ATH
Take care...
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Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
-
Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
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Leon DaDamaga
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Canada
ATH,
Yes, John Quincy Adams was the son of John Adams... For some reason, my memory was that he was the grandson, but regardless you have shown my error and I have been corrected. GWB is the second time a son has followed his father to become POTUS.
Thank you for the PM. You make a good point about the Iragi people being paid to dance in the streets, however there were others around the world who delighted in US tragedy and I feel confident that Saddam did not pay or blackmail all of them to do that. Regardless, I will conceded that I (and others) may have come across as hating Iraqis or Arabs. For myself, let me say that is not true. I have someone who I hold in the very highest regard. Someone who I have worked out with, who has been a good friend, who is one of the very best people I've ever met in the world... someone who is of middle-eastern descent. I, personally, do not hate Arabs. I don't believe that disliking or even hating terrorist organizations equates to hating entire races of people. If I say that I hate Al Queda or Islamic Jihad or the PLO, or the IRA or the KKK or a number of other racist/terrorist organizations, it does not mean that I hate Afghanis, Arabs, Irish, or Caucasian people. And I, personally, feel that others writing derogatory comments about racist/terrorist groups are not directing their comments towards entire races but rather to the specific beliefs espoused by those groups. It is also why I, as a moderator, don't censor those comments. Also, given my personal heritage as being native (domestic) to North America and immigrant (foreign) to North America, I do not consider myself as a specific nationality or heritage... but rather, I consider myself to be first and foremost an American. Therefore, I back up those who put their lives on the line for this country. With that in mind, I apologize for my statement about "nuking" others rather than having American soldiers be harmed, but I will not be apologizing for the underlying sentiment which is caring more for my fellow Americans than others. If my comments have offended someone because they or their family members are US citizens who are socialist/communist politically, I can only say that if someone doesn't like the foundations of the USA politically, this is one country where people are free to emmigrate elsewhere... and I fully support them if they wish to do so. However, I will not be backing down from stating that I believe in and will work to defend the country that I love from all enemies foreign and domestic. And just to make that clear, I feel that someone who wants to take this country even further from our Constitutional Republic roots falls into that category. There are plenty of socialist/communist "experiments" around the globe where those who wish to live with that form of government can move so that they don't have to destroy this country's form of government any further.
Leon,
I get a sarcastic feeling from your posting. Could you please explain what you mean. I would like to understand what you are referring to specifically before I comment further.
Yes, John Quincy Adams was the son of John Adams... For some reason, my memory was that he was the grandson, but regardless you have shown my error and I have been corrected. GWB is the second time a son has followed his father to become POTUS.
Thank you for the PM. You make a good point about the Iragi people being paid to dance in the streets, however there were others around the world who delighted in US tragedy and I feel confident that Saddam did not pay or blackmail all of them to do that. Regardless, I will conceded that I (and others) may have come across as hating Iraqis or Arabs. For myself, let me say that is not true. I have someone who I hold in the very highest regard. Someone who I have worked out with, who has been a good friend, who is one of the very best people I've ever met in the world... someone who is of middle-eastern descent. I, personally, do not hate Arabs. I don't believe that disliking or even hating terrorist organizations equates to hating entire races of people. If I say that I hate Al Queda or Islamic Jihad or the PLO, or the IRA or the KKK or a number of other racist/terrorist organizations, it does not mean that I hate Afghanis, Arabs, Irish, or Caucasian people. And I, personally, feel that others writing derogatory comments about racist/terrorist groups are not directing their comments towards entire races but rather to the specific beliefs espoused by those groups. It is also why I, as a moderator, don't censor those comments. Also, given my personal heritage as being native (domestic) to North America and immigrant (foreign) to North America, I do not consider myself as a specific nationality or heritage... but rather, I consider myself to be first and foremost an American. Therefore, I back up those who put their lives on the line for this country. With that in mind, I apologize for my statement about "nuking" others rather than having American soldiers be harmed, but I will not be apologizing for the underlying sentiment which is caring more for my fellow Americans than others. If my comments have offended someone because they or their family members are US citizens who are socialist/communist politically, I can only say that if someone doesn't like the foundations of the USA politically, this is one country where people are free to emmigrate elsewhere... and I fully support them if they wish to do so. However, I will not be backing down from stating that I believe in and will work to defend the country that I love from all enemies foreign and domestic. And just to make that clear, I feel that someone who wants to take this country even further from our Constitutional Republic roots falls into that category. There are plenty of socialist/communist "experiments" around the globe where those who wish to live with that form of government can move so that they don't have to destroy this country's form of government any further.
Leon,
I get a sarcastic feeling from your posting. Could you please explain what you mean. I would like to understand what you are referring to specifically before I comment further.
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Leon DaDamaga
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Canada
No Panther. It was actually the honest truth. Communism as you explained it is stupid. Why would anybody want to be involved in a communist society if that is the way it is. Don't read into my posts on the other forum. I do listen when arguments are presented intelligently, and logically.
Sincerely, Leon
Sincerely, Leon
