Given the discussions of his diet on this forum, I thought some of you might be interested to know that CNN is reporting that Dr. Atkins died after being in a coma for a week (he received severe head injuries after slipping on an icy sidewalk). He was 72.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/04/17/ob ... index.html
Dr Atkins dead
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Dr Atkins dead
Glenn
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Bill Glasheen
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Thanks, Glenn. I had heard about his accident. I'm sorry for him and his family.
Dr. Atkin's was hoping to live to see the day where he could say "I told you so!" to all his detractors. Right or wrong, it looks like that day didn't come. The "jury" is still out, doing the proper research.
May he rest in peace.
- Bill
Dr. Atkin's was hoping to live to see the day where he could say "I told you so!" to all his detractors. Right or wrong, it looks like that day didn't come. The "jury" is still out, doing the proper research.
May he rest in peace.
- Bill
I find this statement in the obit interesting, given the controversy over his diet:
Of course there would be no way to conclusively link that incident to the diet...I am assuming he followed his own diet plan...but would there be any way to conclusively determine that the two were not linked?In April 2002, Atkins was hospitalized after he went into cardiac arrest, which he said in a statement was "in no way related to diet."
Glenn
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Bill Glasheen
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No. One data point does not define a trend, nor can it establish causality.
One can certainly study large numbers of people and establish that a pattern of behavior (like a specific diet) created a statistically significant risk of an adverse event. Understanding and showing the biochemical details of that relationship can strengthen the link between behavior and outcome. But proving it in any one case is difficult, unless you find "a smoking gun." That rarely happens.
If someone was a smoker and got lung cancer or COPD, well you have a "pretty good" idea you know what caused it. But even then, you can't be absolutely 100% sure. Nonsmokers get lung cancer and COPD too, although it is EXTREMELY rare.
- Bill
One can certainly study large numbers of people and establish that a pattern of behavior (like a specific diet) created a statistically significant risk of an adverse event. Understanding and showing the biochemical details of that relationship can strengthen the link between behavior and outcome. But proving it in any one case is difficult, unless you find "a smoking gun." That rarely happens.
If someone was a smoker and got lung cancer or COPD, well you have a "pretty good" idea you know what caused it. But even then, you can't be absolutely 100% sure. Nonsmokers get lung cancer and COPD too, although it is EXTREMELY rare.
- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Thu Apr 17, 2003 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill Glasheen
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David Kahn
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According to the reports I've read, the cardiac arrest was related to, "an infection of the heart, and was not related to the diet."
David
David
Study the technique, until the technique studies you.
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Bill Glasheen
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http://atkinscenter.com/Archive/2002/4/25-466719.html
According to this, he had an infectious cardiomyopathy. The probable sequence of events is that something (usually a virus, rarely a parasite, and sometimes other medical conditions like severe thyroid disease or iron overload or drug / alcohol use) weakens the heart muscle, and it thins and dilates and at some point the person gets symptoms of heart failure (shortness of breath, fatigue, swelling of the legs) which brings them to the doctor. Tests reveal the problem, an angiogram is usually done to prove the coronary arteries aren't the cause (Dr. Atkins apparently had "lean c's"), and then tests for other causes are done. Frequently nothing is found and it's *assumed* the cause was infectious; it's rare that anyone finds proof of a viral infection because there's no reason to do the test, as nothing can be done about it other than appropriate treatment of the heart failure.
Sometimes improves, sometimes it's managed with medicines, or it can lead to death thru failure of the heart to move blood where it needs to be (everything shuts down) or from the lungs (which leads to basically a drowning); more often however, the dilated heart suffers from a conversion of the normal intermittent pumping function to a functionless quivering which ends in sudden death--that seems to be what happened to Atkins. I've met a dozen or so of these patients; the most memorable were a college athelete who had to have a heart transplant for his, a 40 year old nurse who spent a week on a ventilator, nearly died, and was on the verge of transplant when the medical regimen improved him a little, and a college student who was found down in a dorm room when the symptom of her heart failure was sudden death--she was revived, and her heart failure treated, but her brain was severely damaged by the time she spent pulseless.
That Dr. Atkins survived his out of hospital cardiac arrest in the presence of heart failure and at his age with apparently no significant problems is nothing short of extraordinary. The article doesn't mention if there was a defibrillator around; it's unlikely that simple CPR reviewed his heart, so my guess is he either got thumped on the chest (TCM application of the uechi hammerfist, I suppose) which sometimes works, or he came out of it on his own. In any case, it's a nice reminder that CPR skills are worth having (there was a student that died near Bill's old dojo from sudden death related to the butt of a lacrosse stick, and a teenage boy died in my high school state at a dojo after he was kicked over the heart; Dr. Kelly's book I think documents more).
It sounds like his claim that the arrest was unrelated to diet is true--unless he was an alcoholic, or consumed a lot of acidic beverages prepared in traditional African iron pots, which can cause heart failure by iron overload. Barring those very unlikely circumstances, the real unsupported claim of casuality in the article was that of his doctor: "Clearly, his own nutritional protocols have left him, at the age of 71, with an extraordinarily healthy cardiovascular system." His clean arteries could be FROM his diet, or the fact he followed that diet and his clean arteries could be true, true and unrelated.
According to this, he had an infectious cardiomyopathy. The probable sequence of events is that something (usually a virus, rarely a parasite, and sometimes other medical conditions like severe thyroid disease or iron overload or drug / alcohol use) weakens the heart muscle, and it thins and dilates and at some point the person gets symptoms of heart failure (shortness of breath, fatigue, swelling of the legs) which brings them to the doctor. Tests reveal the problem, an angiogram is usually done to prove the coronary arteries aren't the cause (Dr. Atkins apparently had "lean c's"), and then tests for other causes are done. Frequently nothing is found and it's *assumed* the cause was infectious; it's rare that anyone finds proof of a viral infection because there's no reason to do the test, as nothing can be done about it other than appropriate treatment of the heart failure.
Sometimes improves, sometimes it's managed with medicines, or it can lead to death thru failure of the heart to move blood where it needs to be (everything shuts down) or from the lungs (which leads to basically a drowning); more often however, the dilated heart suffers from a conversion of the normal intermittent pumping function to a functionless quivering which ends in sudden death--that seems to be what happened to Atkins. I've met a dozen or so of these patients; the most memorable were a college athelete who had to have a heart transplant for his, a 40 year old nurse who spent a week on a ventilator, nearly died, and was on the verge of transplant when the medical regimen improved him a little, and a college student who was found down in a dorm room when the symptom of her heart failure was sudden death--she was revived, and her heart failure treated, but her brain was severely damaged by the time she spent pulseless.
That Dr. Atkins survived his out of hospital cardiac arrest in the presence of heart failure and at his age with apparently no significant problems is nothing short of extraordinary. The article doesn't mention if there was a defibrillator around; it's unlikely that simple CPR reviewed his heart, so my guess is he either got thumped on the chest (TCM application of the uechi hammerfist, I suppose) which sometimes works, or he came out of it on his own. In any case, it's a nice reminder that CPR skills are worth having (there was a student that died near Bill's old dojo from sudden death related to the butt of a lacrosse stick, and a teenage boy died in my high school state at a dojo after he was kicked over the heart; Dr. Kelly's book I think documents more).
It sounds like his claim that the arrest was unrelated to diet is true--unless he was an alcoholic, or consumed a lot of acidic beverages prepared in traditional African iron pots, which can cause heart failure by iron overload. Barring those very unlikely circumstances, the real unsupported claim of casuality in the article was that of his doctor: "Clearly, his own nutritional protocols have left him, at the age of 71, with an extraordinarily healthy cardiovascular system." His clean arteries could be FROM his diet, or the fact he followed that diet and his clean arteries could be true, true and unrelated.
--Ian
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gmattson
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I'll second that Drona!
As, I suspect, a majority of our friends (here) will.
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
