I've been thinking about something lately (hears collective uh-oh - LOL) and thought I'd throw it out here. Forgive me if it's (as is likely the case) a topic which has been discussed before.
After you've trained for a significant period of time in a dojo- conditioning excersizes etc etc etc- you begin to notice that when practicing- there is an element of "safety" that wouldn't be there in a real live confrontation. If something "get's too hot" persay- and you are really hurt yourself (or get hurt) you really can say "stop hold on a sec" (say for instance to fix your glasses LOL).... But in "reality" in the middle of a real comfrontation- you can't just yell- "time-out" and expect the person attacking you to stop.
I have two questions regarding this. Is this why people with Uechi dojo's have begun bringing in other realitic training excersizes by other styles (I think it's Darren Laur that does these? is this right?) Are these demonstations and new techniques brought in to counter that "safe" feeling- because Uechi- has become familiar?
If so- has anyone discovered a way to counter that feeling within the moves of Uechi-Ryu its-self?
Granted we have bunki's and kumitaes- but how to do train "your mind" so to sepak to get over that "I can always stop if I get into too much trouble"-
I realize that in karate this is an extremely important thing and probably has an obvious solution- but I found myself realizing that I had developed this frame of mind without even really realizing it before- until now.
Go easy on me! LOL- but what do you think?
Kerry-
Your "safe" in the dojo!
Moderator: Available
yes I thought of that- but even then you can look to the ref and there is still that "respect" that neither fighter is out to really terribly hurt the opponent- there isn't the "I could really get killed here " thing- that's really where I was going with this-
but I see the point of what you are saying- for sure! that is something I haven't done so I should think about that!
K
but I see the point of what you are saying- for sure! that is something I haven't done so I should think about that!
K
Open tournements?
People can actually attack you and you could seriously die?
That's suported by karate?
No offense please- cause I know their are champion fighter's out there- this is not against your taletnt, but isn't that a little gladiator-y? Seems not right to actually "put" yourself in the position.
UNLESS- you are law enforcement or like the military- that's beyond my compreshension- they need everything they can get.
Not that I'm right- it's just how I personally feel-
*thinking*
Cool though- good information thank you! More learning for me! (not sarcastic)
People can actually attack you and you could seriously die?
That's suported by karate?
No offense please- cause I know their are champion fighter's out there- this is not against your taletnt, but isn't that a little gladiator-y? Seems not right to actually "put" yourself in the position.
UNLESS- you are law enforcement or like the military- that's beyond my compreshension- they need everything they can get.
Not that I'm right- it's just how I personally feel-
*thinking*
Cool though- good information thank you! More learning for me! (not sarcastic)
You know Kerry, another variation of that dojo safety is partnering off with the same person in drills, etc., because maybe choices are limited due to small class size or only a couple at the same level. This leads to familiar expectations and responses.
When I used to train in an open-class dojo I always got paired with this guy whose mind was anywhere but in the dojo...I wondered why he came.
I would spend most of my energy in the drill practice trying to motivate him to try harder and put some conviction in his technique...
Well, he's gone, dropped out long ago. Now I NEVER get to pair off with a junior rank, I AM the junior rank...but it's better really.
I think pairing-off should always be mixed to avoid that comfort-zone trap which adds to the dojo safety syndrome.
We shouldn't fear going to train, but should expect a challenge at least.
NM
When I used to train in an open-class dojo I always got paired with this guy whose mind was anywhere but in the dojo...I wondered why he came.
I would spend most of my energy in the drill practice trying to motivate him to try harder and put some conviction in his technique...
Well, he's gone, dropped out long ago. Now I NEVER get to pair off with a junior rank, I AM the junior rank...but it's better really.
I think pairing-off should always be mixed to avoid that comfort-zone trap which adds to the dojo safety syndrome.
We shouldn't fear going to train, but should expect a challenge at least.
NM
Heh, I'm not talking about rooftop rumbles, Kerry. Open tournaments as in places where people from all styles compete, with a variety of rules (all the way up to NHB fighting). The chance of death is pretty small obviously, but the chance of injury is reasonable if you're not up to speed. Totally unfamiliar attacks (you'd be suprised how many variations of basic throws and strikes there are amongst style), combos, levels of agression... everything is very different from the safety of the home dojo and people are out for blood. Hmm, again not to scare you off. I've never been seriously hurt at a tournament and it's generally a very fun way to take you out of your safety zone.
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paul giella
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Sun Sep 27, 1998 6:01 am
Very important insight, Kerry. Maybe this is one of the limitations of any formal martial art. A necessary one if we are to practice and then get up for work the next day. By the way, this is why we have started to wear padding and make contact in some of our drills at the Hut... it is a step closer to reality, but still within the safety zone.
TDS- *sigh* ok, that seems to make a lot more sense LOL. I was picturing like- well- gladiators lol- and it would go to figure that- of coarse in the dojo, you train to "protect" yourself, then have a place to as "safely as possibly" but at the same time really challenge your ability to apply that training. That seems to be a really good thing.
The pairing off for conditioning partners IS a great point too- most of our classes, though we have several classes, ARE small, which is one of the reasons I try to pick men for partners- Since I am a short woman- it seems more of a challenge to me, to be "conditioned" by a man, but also to be able to "really try" to "condition" my male partner. Unless of coarse I happen to get to be with a higher ranking woman student (so there isn't any kind of sexist-ness here lol) the thing is I happen to BE the highest ranking woman in our dojo's- so I have to go else where to be able to test/challenge myself against strong/talented women.
Mr. Geilla- thank you - I try to stay aware and focused and keep learning- you know?
K
The pairing off for conditioning partners IS a great point too- most of our classes, though we have several classes, ARE small, which is one of the reasons I try to pick men for partners- Since I am a short woman- it seems more of a challenge to me, to be "conditioned" by a man, but also to be able to "really try" to "condition" my male partner. Unless of coarse I happen to get to be with a higher ranking woman student (so there isn't any kind of sexist-ness here lol) the thing is I happen to BE the highest ranking woman in our dojo's- so I have to go else where to be able to test/challenge myself against strong/talented women.
Mr. Geilla- thank you - I try to stay aware and focused and keep learning- you know?
K
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jorvik
Hi Kerry,
I've trained in lots of different styles and what you notice is that when you reach a certain level of ability and can spar well and you go to a strange dojo people will try it on, see if they can show you up when sparring, that type of thing.
Unconsciously perhaps, the black belts think that the black belt entitles them to special treatment, they don't expect somebody who is not wearing a blackbelt with at least the same number of tags to have a real go when they are sparring. They think that you should respect them and make allowances
.....it is funny, but unless you try out different clubs and styles you will miss this aspect of ma's.
I have been training with a friend recently in a small private club.....I haven't trained for a long while and he is very into hard contact, but on pads. and I mean hard.....I was holding pads for a bodybuilder who was about 25 and in superb condition ......and he was throwing hard fast combinations for a good three minutes
.......I'll tell you it was damm scary 
That is what you need to do.......afterwards I thought a lot about it, and how it would relate to real fighting...it gave me lots of insight into what I could be up against.
I'll be honest I wouldn't fancy my chances against somebody like him
I've trained in lots of different styles and what you notice is that when you reach a certain level of ability and can spar well and you go to a strange dojo people will try it on, see if they can show you up when sparring, that type of thing.
Unconsciously perhaps, the black belts think that the black belt entitles them to special treatment, they don't expect somebody who is not wearing a blackbelt with at least the same number of tags to have a real go when they are sparring. They think that you should respect them and make allowances
.....it is funny, but unless you try out different clubs and styles you will miss this aspect of ma's.I have been training with a friend recently in a small private club.....I haven't trained for a long while and he is very into hard contact, but on pads. and I mean hard.....I was holding pads for a bodybuilder who was about 25 and in superb condition ......and he was throwing hard fast combinations for a good three minutes
.......I'll tell you it was damm scary That is what you need to do.......afterwards I thought a lot about it, and how it would relate to real fighting...it gave me lots of insight into what I could be up against.
I'll be honest I wouldn't fancy my chances against somebody like him
Hi J-
I have been to other dojo's but haven't had the opportunity to spar with anyone. But only of Uechi- places. I have noticed that different styles- tend to see their own as better than Uechi though. Which I think is an interesting aspect to their personalities. LOL. Tia Chi is one I'm looking into at the moment. But espescially Aikido places- or people in Akido- (please no one participating in that take offense- this is just what I have experienced with those people I have met they try to show me that what they know can over take so to speak what they know. (It usually doesn't work)
Interesting though huhmn?
I'll have to try to spar with someone LOL- WITH pads! That'll probably help this- but also just being aware that I was thinking that is helping on it's own- cause I'm consciously trying not to be that way now.
K
I have been to other dojo's but haven't had the opportunity to spar with anyone. But only of Uechi- places. I have noticed that different styles- tend to see their own as better than Uechi though. Which I think is an interesting aspect to their personalities. LOL. Tia Chi is one I'm looking into at the moment. But espescially Aikido places- or people in Akido- (please no one participating in that take offense- this is just what I have experienced with those people I have met
they try to show me that what they know can over take so to speak what they know. (It usually doesn't work) Interesting though huhmn?
I'll have to try to spar with someone LOL- WITH pads!
That'll probably help this- but also just being aware that I was thinking that is helping on it's own- cause I'm consciously trying not to be that way now. K
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jorvik
Kerry
I have done loads of aikido and quite a bit of Tai chi.....frankly I wouldn't waste my time on them
......or certainly not waste too much time on them. Aiki ***** better than gravity, and Tai chi is full of ageing hippies who practice Reiki and want to read your aura
Better to get a good punch bag or do weights
though check out
http://www.patiencetaichi.com/applications.htm
and
http://www.aikidojournal.com/articles/a ... Pranin.asp
if you're interested
I have done loads of aikido and quite a bit of Tai chi.....frankly I wouldn't waste my time on them
......or certainly not waste too much time on them. Aiki ***** better than gravity, and Tai chi is full of ageing hippies who practice Reiki and want to read your aura Better to get a good punch bag or do weights
though check out
http://www.patiencetaichi.com/applications.htm
and
http://www.aikidojournal.com/articles/a ... Pranin.asp
if you're interested
Hi Kerry,KerryM wrote:Tia Chi is one I'm looking into at the moment. But espescially Aikido places- or people in Akido- (please no one participating in that take offense- this is just what I have experienced with those people I have met
For the most part neither of these arts, Aikido nor Tai chi, spar. Sparring isn't even done traditionally in most Chinese systems, at least not in the sense most people have in mind when they use that word. So when you said 'it usually doesn't work,' I wonder what the context of the test was. I think Aikido and Tai Chi are great concept based systems. The problem IMO lies more in how they train than in any fault of the systems.
If you want to test yourself or 'test Uechi' against other systems I am sure that you could enter sparring events that would pit you against people of different systems. Wing Chun, in a sense a Chinese sister style of Uechi also has many elements in common with Aikido and Tai Chi but tend to train a little more combat oriented. If there is a WCK school anywhere around you might try checking them out. If they are any good at all I'm sure they'll give you a nice run for your money.
Additionally, if you ever have the chance to visit any Southern Style Chinese Kung Fu school do take advantage. If they're authentic and you spend enough time with them you may be able to get a sense of what Master Uechi experienced when he studied in China and indeed what may be the seeds that spawned Uechi. Many of these systems utilize similar tools and concepts found in Uechi that are often thought of as 'hidden' in kata.
Jim
Moy Yat Ving Tsun Kung-Fu
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
Hi
Hi Kerry,
It is a good point you make.
It is one you come to realise after a certain amount of training.
Yes it is relatively safe in the Dojo.
The honest answer is MA training is never the same as Real fighting in the street.
It is good you realise this. So many people think the belt around their waste relates to their ability in the street, not true.
Lots of black belts of whatever grade have no street experience.
I know several so called famous high grade leaders of famous styles who have no experience.
There is a realization in MA's of this now and people like Darren Laur or Geoff Thompson in my country are putting back the realism in MA's.
The only way you can know the difference is to be in a street fight, then you get a shock.
The theories fly out the window lots of what you were told becomes laughable.
Of course you should not get into a fight.
But listening to those who have been there is the best bet Kerry.
Realistic traing is however a lot harder than pretend training.
No competition is like the real thing.
Good Luck
RK
It is a good point you make.
It is one you come to realise after a certain amount of training.
Yes it is relatively safe in the Dojo.
The honest answer is MA training is never the same as Real fighting in the street.
It is good you realise this. So many people think the belt around their waste relates to their ability in the street, not true.
Lots of black belts of whatever grade have no street experience.
I know several so called famous high grade leaders of famous styles who have no experience.
There is a realization in MA's of this now and people like Darren Laur or Geoff Thompson in my country are putting back the realism in MA's.
The only way you can know the difference is to be in a street fight, then you get a shock.
The theories fly out the window lots of what you were told becomes laughable.
Of course you should not get into a fight.
But listening to those who have been there is the best bet Kerry.
Realistic traing is however a lot harder than pretend training.
No competition is like the real thing.
Good Luck
RK
Music is the space in between the notes
