Kata and Memory

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Fri May 09, 2003 7:12 pm

I've been thinking about the issue of the relevance of kata to the martial arts and something has occured to me that I don't think has been mentioned here yet.

Thinking back to a time when the "complete techniques" of any martial art were not available for $19.95 in every book/video store and there wasn't a McDojo on every corner, how do you remember everything you were taught? While you are training your memory is constantly refreshed, what about 20 years later? And if/when you become a teacher, how do you remember techniques to teach the higher-level students when you learned them maybe 10, 20, 30 years before? Even getting in a few fights won't keep you refreshed on all the techniques you learned, and you're not likely to use all of them anyway. Plus if you learn new techmiques from the experience of fighting, how do you remember the details of them years later. Even occassionally training with others of various skill-levels won't necessarily enable you to stay refreshed on all techniques (and back then there was the issue of fighters not wanting to show others all of their techniques anyway). So how do you remember them?

One answer: Kata. With proper performance and visualization, kata would help a trained fighter to better remember all that s/he has learned as the years go by. The particular sequence of any given kata may have more relevance as a memory aid as well.

Something to think about. We're training in an old form of mnemonics!

Code: Select all

2Green · Post by **2Green** » Fri May 09, 2003 7:27 pm

Not to mention also that Kata allowed the codifying and transmission of techniques among people who could often neither read nor write.
Also, they may not have wanted to have secrets written down for others to steal, assuring that the techniques could only be passed on directly to a student.

On a related thought, I've found that I can't perform a Kata convincingly until I get to where the memory part is done and my body can just take over.
Then usually, corrections are made and the memory cycle starts over again!
I find this continually frustrating.

NM

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Sat May 10, 2003 1:49 am

totally agree , and its a far superior method of catalouging techniques than anything else i could think off , a physical memonic for a physical act

Shaolin · Post by **Shaolin** » Sat May 10, 2003 3:37 am

Aside from forms and the kuen kiut (sayings) that come with the system there is Chi Sao. Not only is the experienced (see over the hill) player able to continue training every move in the system this way but they also continue to train with all the correct energy conditions involved as well as correct timing. etc., used with each move.

The ability to continue doing Chi Sao into their golden years allows seniors to keep getting better, and better, hence those younger students fortunate enough to play chi sao with these advanced people reap the rewards as well.

Jim

Drona · Post by **Drona** » Mon May 12, 2003 12:30 pm

Alzheimer victims may not know their name but can walk and ride a bike.

Deep Sea · Post by **Deep Sea** » Mon May 12, 2003 1:51 pm

Give me a call on the phone this morning, Drona, if you are in the area.

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Thu May 15, 2003 7:35 pm

Hi, Just looked through some of my notes on memory development ,in relationship to sanchin work undertaken first of all during the three year sanchin and onwards .
Right ,this aspect of our development can be overlooked or simply taken for granted in learning ,one purpose of the total involvement in sanchin was to exercise the memory .And over time I began to realise this ,so a major objective of this method is to activate long term memory ,long lasting impressions that are inplanted ,through the various aspects that make up sound ,well balanced memory development .

It came to my attention that regardeless how hard I worked ,only so much could be absorbed ,but by realising the slowing down principle involved in sanchin ,I have worked in other posts on other aspects of the slowing down principle ,such as ; "by slowing down more is seen less is missed "and its a great principle I make use of in my daily life .

Back to sanchin ,the memory as a receptive aspect ,or should I say memorys ,now a purpose of sanchin is to open up these various aspects of memory ,and this is painstaking work ,just how many times I thought I had memorised sanchin then found out I had not .

max.

Deep Sea · Post by **Deep Sea** » Fri May 16, 2003 6:41 am

Hello Max.

Good to read your words once again.

Today, kata training does not represent a memory taining tool to me, rather a strength-building and fighting ability building tool.

However, Max, when I was run over I suffered much more than a broken back, scrambled organs, and broken bones.

Background:

I also suffered a head trauma from that accident. My head was severely swollen from hitting the ground from all that rolling, but the skull was not broken, the worst kind of head injury. Probably the cause for the coma.

Anyway...

The head trauma was responsible for all sorts of things including speech and memory impediments [which I have long gotten over and proved to myself by returning to college full time and receiving a Computer Science degree after the accident so I have long past the vegetable stage] Early on they, the doctors, thought I was parapalegic because of the head trauma something those [strong and unkind expletives here] were later proven wrong.

Current Topic:

In those early days I used kata as a memory tool as well as a tool to help teach me how to walk again. And I had problems rememberng the more complex TKD advanced ones and Tai Chi as well, but continued to struggle through them as well as my beloved Uechi kata through those early months and years, a method which proved to be an effective memory development and improvement tool as far as I'm concerned.

Take a person who is average and not picking himself up out from the bottom of the barel. That person may go on NOT noticing the memory improvement because he/she is looking for improvements in other areas. Sharp memory skills are not a gift to most, therefore I feel that kata can be used as a tool to improve upon them.

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Fri May 16, 2003 7:29 pm

Hi, allen nice also to read what you have to say ,its always been a trait of mine to drop out of circles sometimes for extended periods of time.
You must have gone through all kinds of hell with that accident ,we have chatted about it before remember ?its a inspiring story to anyone going through that type of trauma.

In my teaching I always go sense based ,I avoid going through the intellect in opening memory development ,what I mean is I avoid words at that stage .I also stated on the forums I observe three essential characteristics ;[attention span ] is one, this is essential to [memory opening ]and [sense development] ,obviously the senses feed the memory ,but if there are holes in the memory the sense information radiating and homing in on my student will partially fillter away or be lost .
There is a simple pattern to my teaching ,that will be picked up on with time lack of verbal ,direct placed instructions to muscle memory ,long periods in one area of study at a time ,quite simply stengthening the [attention span ]helps to stop gap those holes in the memory ,and strengthen the thought process which will follow with the improvement to the three essential characteristics ,the introduction of a slightly longer program will involve the emotional /and intellectual memories ,quite simply "TIME"involves itself within this intellectual /emotional framework,in a three year sanchin these are some of the impressions raining in my student.

max.

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Fri May 16, 2003 8:00 pm

I said on the forums a early objective of mine is self mastery ,and obviously early on I had no idea what self mastery entailed ,I would go to great lengths to fathom this,what I talk of is the opening of self mastery ,a sound working memory is a important part of mastery ,there is great knowledge in man ,and obviously sanchin too my start was and is simple yet difficult to carry out but the rewards are waiting dormant at first ,a purpose of sanchin is to balance the triolgy of memory receptors ,of which can be sub divided.
I have always valued practical methods that work ,but like all methods faith is needed,but not blind faith ,a working observing memorising mode ,first of a memory store needs to be developed ,that can hold and be receptive and digest then convert into thought forms that reveal meaning that is both illuminating yet very practical .

max.

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Sat May 17, 2003 12:34 am

If the impressions that are in seed form coming from the teaching method and sanchin will receive new potency when memorising a sequence from seisan when that kata is studied.

Seisan combat sequence's now fall into a strongly prepared sanchin memory base ,even though seisans movements are new a speed up takes place now in conection between the symbolic plain yet archetype muscle memory that as been highly worked ,new meaning flows into these new movement combative muscle memory interchanges ,the puzzel principle is now at work .
I work my student onwards and inwards on total sanchin/seisan involvment ,because my student as done that much work on sanchin we can bypass the stepping stone five kata and go straight for the second of the big three uechi kata .

The puzzel principle as at this stage a comparision to fertile ground [sanchin] memory,to new seeds those new seisan sequence's . Sanchin is now truly ready to combine its memory of impressions with those new seisan impressions .

max.

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Sat May 17, 2003 1:52 am

Interesting stuff , a lot of lip service is paid to muscle memory but i think a lot of people overlook really how fundamental it is , especially once stress and adrenilan etc are added to the mix , I dont see the mind and body as seperate , i feel eventually with practice one body can remember and the mind can be reminded under stress .

intersting posts Max , I like your take on laying a foundation of memory .

Nice to see you around here again too

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Sat May 17, 2003 5:41 pm

Strike, thanks for your comments,like you explain we can overlook the muscle memory along with the other memories we possess ,for instance the stress and addrenalin rush come from the emotional memory,this memory is study in its own right ,a purpose of sanchin is to watch this memory at work and how we attach ourselves to its good points and its pitfalls too.
In my study of sanchin for instance ,I mean nothing but sanchin my objectives timescales of involvement were periodically under threat from invading negatives,I made the simple mistake of thinking they were just thought forms ,dealing with them proved difficult .If the training is difficult sooner or later our emotional memory will vomit up old negatives along with newly developed ones ,but at the time my line of watchfullness failed to feel the source of my own specific negatives ,which was non other than the emotional memory ,from a practical point of view the slowing down principle helps matters by allowing observation to watch just how this memory weaves its way into our blood stream and at times robbing us of direction ,sanchins direction indicates towards balance ,when we gain a bit of balance on this emotional memory the negative aspects of stress for instance are now robbed of there 100% chemical reactions by what power or percentage we can take from the emotion ,step one is identifing the source ,step two we take away some of its negativity , the more we subtract the road opens towards true mastery ,man's direction heads away from negativity only by special no nonsense efforts .

max.

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Sun May 18, 2003 9:45 am

In relationship to memory my practical understanding identify's;

[1 The teaching goes toward the opening of the memories and not just one specific memory base ,it also does not take things for granted in respect of the memory .
[2 Sanchin prepare's the fertile ground on memory ,a major objective is to become aware of this ,we could say this is a major part of step one ,one obstacle stops this happening ,non other than lack of commitment and time to sanchin ,if we are involved the other is a blindness to impressions incoming from the teaching method and sanchin .
[3 step two involves the impessions are hitting their memory sense based targets ,a major fault in step two is to think we have memorised sanchin or its specific sequence ,we adopt auto-pilot ,we shut down now ,reaching 100%blindness to new or the same incoming impressions raining in a direct way free of auto suggestions from the pure based teaching mode .
[4The teaching method is on the alert to the above at all times ,the teaching method makes use of a quality of sanchin to help carry out its objectives ,this is activated in the three year sanchin at first in step one [patience] the teaching method is always patient ,it can afford to wait for its results to mature ,but it can use a interchange of softness or its complimentry hardness to bring into effect change and growth ,the mind like the body expands and contracts ,to expand too quick in stage one creates a bottleneck of impressions going into long term memory ,a major aid or characteristic to opening the memories is a patient attitude ,when this goes out the window ,the eyes close ,we lose input on that sense in varing ratios up to 100% during step one .

max.

KerryM · Post by **KerryM** » Sun May 18, 2003 7:49 pm

Thanks for the positive post Glenn!

Want to remember what you've learned? Practice practice oh and- practice-

K