Gun control data

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Can you really bridge the gap between reality and training? Between traditional karate and real world encounters? Absolutely, we will address in this forum why this transition is necessary and critical for survival, and provide suggestions on how to do this correctly. So come in and feel welcomed, but leave your egos at the door!
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Le Haggard
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Post by Le Haggard »

DON:

I didn't insult you, presume you are entirely ignorant, insist you are uneducated or otherwise berate you in anyway. I didn't even critique your view, which I strongly disagree with yet refrained from slandering you for. I didn't do anything other than express my own view. Yet you made huge assumptions about me and my position. Please do not "demonize" me. That is exactly what I was refering to when I commented about people hopefully treating me as a person. You did not.

LeAnn :(
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Don Rearic
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Post by Don Rearic »

I have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you are referring to me using the word "uneducated" or even "ignorant" when it comes to some people's views. In which case, that does not mean you lack an education, that you are stupid or anything else that would be an insult.

Ignorance is lack of knowledge. Uneducated is lacking an education. I'm not talking about math, I'm talking about firearms and the laws surrounding them.

Yes, you are ignorant of some things when it comes to firearms, that's not an insult. If you take it as an insult, that is not my problem. I don't get insulted when people tell me I am ignorant of repairing a stove or something, I am ignorant of alot of things just not anything in this thread.

If you think I have to let silly comments slide and that is treating you like a person, I'm sorry LeAnn, life does not work like that.
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Le Haggard
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Post by Le Haggard »

DON:

You have no idea of my education or knowledge of these issues. You presume that people with knowledge and education in them would think the same as you do. They do not always do so. I am one of them.

As I said at the start, posting here is obviously one of those "high-risk" behaviors and I was bound to get verbally "jumped." I'll just leave the pulpit to those preaching to their own choir.

LeAnn

FYI: Not that it matters...But the weapon I was refering to is a WWII German Military weapon that the nutcase himself told me the state's legal restrictions on 10+ years ago. It wasn't "purchased" from any gun dealer, but taken off the body of a dead german officer by one of the nutcase's family members.
jorvik

Post by jorvik »

LE Anne
You are an extremely clever and articulate person.......and I'll always take advice from people whom I respect :D ........I'm gone also :multi: ................let the ranters,rant.
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Post by Guest »

Panther wrote:I will (yet again) warn that the personal attacks are strictly verboten!!! (In other words, STOP doing it!
jorvik wrote:Panther
...the figures would prove you a liar....
jorvik wrote:I'm gone also :multi: ................let the ranters,rant.
I hope you are. You continue to insult people and to be honest with you I'm kind of disappointed in who you turned out to be. You hurl insults with every post these days. You use to contribute to these threads and I enjoyed reading your posts but for some time now I have found your contribution to be rude offensive and anti American. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Laird
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Post by Don Rearic »

Le Haggard wrote:
DON:

You have no idea of my education or knowledge of these issues. You presume that people with knowledge and education in them would think the same as you do. They do not always do so. I am one of them.
Diane Feinstein wants fluffed her feathers as a knowledgeable person as well, she felt confident to discuss what she referred to as "assault weapons" on the strength that as Mayor of San Francisco, she had a concealed carry permit for a small revolver.

If only a knowledge base could be so cheaply purchased.

What I find so dishonest about your comments is this.

Even people that agree with you, agree with me as well.

You know how they agree with us both, are you interested in the slightest?

They agree with YOU that the weapons should be banned but when they tell the TRUTH, they just come out and say that the laws are only cosmetic, they won't save any lives and they are all just part of a larger plan to simply ban them all.

So, while you compose these posts, I sit and laugh in the knowledge that I know what the deal is, there is no need for you to remind us thrice that you should not have entered into this debate. You sound like a victim.

Chew on this for a moment, at least Krauthammer has the bag to come out and tell the truth even if I vehemently disagree with him.
In an op-ed piece entitled "Disarm The Citizenry", The Washington Post, Friday, April 5, 1996, page A19, columnist Charles Krauthammer wrote:

"Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquility of the kind enjoyed by sister democracies such as Canada and Britain. Given the frontier history and individualist ideology of the United States, however, this will not come easily. It certainly cannot be done radically. It will probably take one, maybe two generations. It might be 50 years before the United States gets to where Britain is today. Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic - purely symbolic - move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."


I guess Krauthammer is just a member of the so-called, "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy," he is merely a gun nut, eh? He is simply a militia member, a wing nut!

Like I said, at least he told the truth.
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Post by Guest »

[quote="Akil Todd Harvey"]
Le,
Clearly you see this picture all wrong.....Single shot magazine is for the individual deer, automatic rifles, machine gins and assault rifles, whatever you want to call them, are for the herd of deer [quote]

No way I think you've got it wrong ATH.(BTW hope your recovery is going well.) Deer don't always get hit with the first shot. When they do they don't always go down when hit. Hollywood has created this one shot one kill myth. We got all kinds of delusional folk's think they can take out the EBG with one punch. And we got all kinds of people that think that when you or Bambi get shot you drop like a rock. And some times this is true but some times the target acts like a Timex and just keeps on ticking.

I've tracked deer for miles that were shot in the lungs. They eventually bleed out/ suffocate. The hunter gets poor quality meat full of hormones, bitter to the taste and tends to spoil quickly. Bambi gets a slow cruel death. A second round in the magazine prevents this.

This is even a bigger issue with larger ungulates like elk or moose. If the bullet hits a bone it can go anywhere and now your tracking a bleeder that you may never find. A few extra rounds in the magazine help to reduce the problem.

In my neck of the woods when you shoot an elk or a moose you have good chance of being visited by a grizzly bear before your finished gutting your kill. Over the course of hunting season the bears have learned that the sound of a rifle equals yummy steaming gut pile. They respond quickly, and will attempt to push you off your kill as well if you're still on scene when they arrive. Bears are trying to fatten up at this time of year just before hibernation. They have voracious appetites and tend to be more aggressive than normal.

So you only have a single shot rifle as you suggest. Do you fire a shot into the dirt to try and scare off the hungry bear, or do you put your only round into the center of the bears chest? You got a bout a half second before the bears on you.

Sure would like a semi auto in that situation with 1 in the chamber and 5 in the mag.

When I was a kid growing up, like 12, 13, I hunted with an old WWII Lee Enfield 303. 5 shot mag. Those extra rounds stopped a lot of deer from bleeding out miles later. Those extra rounds also helped to keep the family supplied in venison. Failure to kill enough deer to get through the winter could mean starvation for my family. We were trappers. If we ran out of venison then you were looking at muskrats for your diet. When you're down to rats your pretty much out of grub. When you're eating muskrats you also chopping through ice and frozen mud to get at cat tail roots. You're pretty much in starvation mode.

Folks who advocate single shot hunting have never been hungry. They should focus their attention on their world and strive not to harm other peoples by promoting their uninformed rhetoric. Had single shot weapons been the rule half my family would have starved to death years ago.

I believe the point ATH is trying to make is you don't need an automatic weapon to hunt venison. I tend to agree. 5 rounds a second tends to mangle the meat. The rounds also are not accurate. I'm Canadian; these weapons are not available in this country. I have no access to them.

If I hunted geese, ducks and grouse with a single shot shot gun. My family would have also had some hard times. A flight of geese flies over and with semi auto or even a pump you may get 4. With a single shot you might get one......or none. None does not feed six people for long!

I believe the point ATH is trying to make is assault rifles are for killing, they are not for harvesting meat. They are weapons of war and defense. I agree 30 rounds in 3 seconds make for a poor hunting tool. They are however excellent home invasion deterrents and I wished I could own three or four of them.

Don

I agree with most of what you say, except I believe it's okay for a 13 year old to own firearms, on his parents permit/permission. I had my first bb at 8; 22 at 9; 20 gauge at 11; 12 gauge and 303 at 13. I didn't kill anyone, but I did bring home a ##### load of meat.

My own country trained me to plant mines. And operate the FNC1 and FNC2, and machine pistols at 15. And I'm a tree hugging nonviolent Canadian. Never too early to teach a kid some responsibility.


General comment


I see the whole antigun movement as some knee jerk reactions from some folks who are afraid of guns. These tools can kill you know. They think if they force ever one to have a permit no one gets killed. They think if they limit weapons to single round that multiple killings will cease. Well they got their head in their @ss or at least buried in the same sand as they make those rose colored glasses out of.

People, I can go into a building/school with a single shot weapon and kill dozens and dozens of folks with that weapon. Having to put each round into the chamber with my fingers does not take long. I'll still be capable of making the ugly day at Columbine look like a cakewalk. ! Round at a time.

Okay lets ban all firearms. Okay so I buy some rags Gas and a few bottles, want to see a body count? How about some fertilizer and diesel fuel. And you thought the evil assault weapon goes boom. Point is a motivated lunatic can take out hundreds of folks without any firearms. Look what a few Arabs accomplished with some box cutters. Point is if some one is going a little psycho theirs not a lot you can do about it. If they decide to kill controlling firearms will not stop them.

I see this antigun lobby as a bunch of uninformed well meaning do gooders doing no good at all. Kind of like anti seal movement, they just got involved and Fuked it all up. Now there are no cod and too many seals. If these anti gun folk prevail we will see too many deer and people starving. In the cities I guess we would see too many criminals and no deterrent.

Just the opinion of a racist!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Don Rearic »

uglyelk wrote:
Don

I agree with most of what you say, except I believe it's okay for a 13 year old to own firearms, on his parents permit/permission. I had my first bb at 8; 22 at 9; 20 gauge at 11; 12 gauge and 303 at 13. I didn't kill anyone, but I did bring home a ##### load of meat.
Laird,

I'm sorry I gave you the impression that I was somehow "against" children shooting or being in possession of firearms. Did I say anything that led you to believe I think otherwise?

I have had "easy and ready access" to a firearm since I can remember. I can remember some things when I was in diapers, take that for what you will. :)

Seriously, when I was a kid growing up, I could have put my hands on rifle, shotgun or handgun and the ammunition to go with it. I was raised differently than a lot of children are now. Some people have to "tweak" that issue to fit their own lifestyle. Since my Father was a former Marine, Hunter and avid Shooter/Reloader, I was brought up differently. So I would not say it is a "great idea" to allow certain things to be readily accessible for some people and their children. Intensely personal issue that I cannot make a judgment call on and I don't think Government should be doing that either.

Since the issue has been raised, I think it is a proper time to say that some people tend to harp on school shootings and the whole "Kids and Guns" issues and they do the vast majority of children a terrible wrong in lumping them in with the malcontents and psychopaths that are in an extreme minority. By that I mean this:

Antigunners single out the relatively few kids who have had emotional problems, etc., and they focus on the very few victims of their wrath as a rallying cry. In so doing, in their condemnation of "Kids and Guns," they ignore, literally, the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of kids who have had ZERO ISSUES with negligent discharges, homicidal and suicidal rages.

Like any other person that uses a firearm responsibly, the vast majority are being painted as potential problems, timebombs waiting to go off or stick a pistol in their mouth or so stupid they don't know what end the round comes out of...

Again, there have been MILLIONS of kids that have used them responsibly, but people who believe in Mommy Government wish to paint all of them as potential "problems" when in fact they should be banning the doling out of Ritalin, Adderal, Paxil, Zoloft, Prozac and all that other crap in their so-called, "Drug Free Schools" and perhaps some of these kids would not crack up.

On another point about using other types of "assault weapons" and banning them because they offer a great potential for lethality, last year in Baltimore City, a drug dealer firebombed a house because the woman kept calling the Police on the dealers in the area. The whole family, if I remember correctly, seven died. Also, IIRC, one daughter survived because she was at a friend's house, everyone in the home that was bombed - died. No sophisticated device was used, a simple Molotov Cocktail.

You cannot stop this sort of thing, if you are going to ban firearms and coddle criminals, that sort of thing would continue. Are these liberals thinking they can ban a whiskey bottle or...would they ban glass bottles of all kinds to prevent this sort of thing? This drug dealer, he could have bought an illegal gun, right? Why did he choose a Molotov Cocktail?

He chose it because it's a better weapon for that sort of crime than a firearm. The Molotov Cocktail, a real assault weapon if you want to use that term. Bottle, rag and fuel is legal until you combine them, then it becomes an illegal thing to have.

As I posted earlier about the shift from firearms to edged and impact weapons, this would happen as well, assuming, of course, you could disarm drug dealers, which you can't. You can't even keep the drugs out of their hands to begin with, let alone get their weapons.
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Post by Panther »

LeAnn,

Welcome to the forum. As you already know, it gets rough in here especially on certain threads. And as already pointed out, your family member who possessed that WWII German machine gun (a true "assault rifle") did so (it seems from what you've written) without the proper licensing, paperwork or authorization. Those items have been heavily regulated since 1934. Also, the meaning of the Second Amendment was never questioned until the 20th Century. And even now, there are anti-gun Constitutional scholars (including those such as Lawrence Tribe) who admit that it protects an individual Right. They've even gone so far as calling it "The Embarassing Second Amendment". The "collective Right" view of the Second Amendment is only maintained by those with an agenda who either have not read the research on the Amendment or who refuse to acknowledge anything that interferes with their agenda. The research is readily available for your reading pleasure.

I don't mind people having different opinions on any given subject.
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Le Haggard
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Post by Le Haggard »

Thank you for the "welcome" Panther. I don't mind differences of opinions either. However, I do mind being insulted repeatedly, told I'm ignorant, that my view is uneducated, dishonest, and addressed as the "romper room sect," based only on my disagreement with others' views. My understanding of what debating an issue is includes none of these and is entirely based on discussing the issues with reason, without resorting to any sort of denigration, either of individuals or their position. I personally believe in treating others, and their rights to hold differing views, with respect.

Unfortunately, though I understand you support respectful exchange, it is not apparent here. Therefore, I will leave the forum to you. Thank you again for the welcome. I will reserve my participation until I am treated with respect by your other guests.

LeAnn
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Post by Panther »

jorvik,

I have done my research on the U.K., it's laws, it's treatment of criminals, it's treatment of gun-owners, and it's crime rates. The Birmingham Post, The Daily Mail, The Evening Standard are all great sources of information about how criminals are treated in England. You state that street crime in England is declining. Not according to a story in the London Daily Telegraph titled "Crime Figures a Sham, Say Police". The story noted that "pressure to convince the public that police were winning the fight against crime had resulted in a long list of ruses to 'massage' statistics," and "the recorded crime level bore no resemblance to the actual amount of crime being committed." After revisiting the figures, it was found that "street crime doubled in January" {over the preceding year}.


There is a book out by Peter Hitchens (a columnist for the Sunday Mail) titled A Brief History of Crime: The Decline of Order, Justice, and Liberty in England, which discusses the growing crime problems in England with some excellent sources, cites and statistics. If you are part of a special street crime unit, it appears from other U.K. sources that your activities have largely been unsuccessful. No one has made "spurious lies" or spoken "nonsense" about U.K. laws. The comments about U.K. laws have been and can be backed up with sources and cites from the U.K. If you don't like the information, contact the sources directly OR refute them with counter sources and cites that can be verified.

You see... I do my homework and research. On the other hand, you admonish us not to criticize England, while you spend convoluted post after post bashing the United States.

You have insulted me and called me a liar without cause. I have given you more leeway than you deserved. End of subject on you...
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Don Rearic
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Post by Don Rearic »

Le Haggard wrote:
Thank you for the "welcome" Panther. I don't mind differences of opinions either. However, I do mind being insulted repeatedly, told I'm ignorant, that my view is uneducated, dishonest, and addressed as the "romper room sect," based only on my disagreement with others' views.
Quit being a damned victim. If you're so educated and honest perhaps you can drift back to the last page and see that I addressed Todd as being a member of The Romper Room Sect because he was being a child. I never mentioned you. I used "children" which is plural, primarily because of Todd's nonsense and Jorvik's ongoing moron-a-thon in this forum. I never mentioned you, but since you seem so eager to be insulted and lump yourself in with such intellectual luminaries as Jorvik and Todd, who only read what they want to read and discard the rest, you may now join them.

You wish to be insulted, you find offense in something I say to someone else and then you extrapolate from that an insult to you. That's fine.

I stand by my earlier comments LeAnn, just because Daddy taught you how to shoot does not mean you are educated on the issues at hand. An opinion does not equal a knowledge of the issue. I addressed this line of thought when I stated that one-time Mayor of San Francisco, Diane Feinstein, main author of the assault weapons legislation, had a carry permit for a revolver but considered herself "knowledgeable" on other weapons because of it. I said, "If only expertise could be purchased so cheaply" or words to that effect.

And yes, the ramblings of a relative or family friend that you repeatedly refer to as a "nutcase" coupled with Daddy teaching you how to shoot is a cheaply purchased bit of expertise on the subject at hand and is tantamount to me claiming I know all about vehicles because I can drive one and fuel one...

Why do I think that way? As if you care, but for the record, when you say you are not convinced of the Constitutional argument, I have no other choice but to come to the conclusion that you have not read the vast amount of quotes about the Second Amendment from the people who brought it into being.

If you have not read them you are ignorant of that which you speak of and if you have read them and remain unconvinced, I have to question your ability to reason and understand the written word...

If you are not convinced that when Jefferson says, "No free man shall be debarred the use of arms," I have to think that either you have never read the passages which would make you ignorant on the issue or you have read them and you simply think Charlton Heston or some other pro-gun person made them up which would make you dishonest because I think you know better.
My understanding of what debating an issue is includes none of these and is entirely based on discussing the issues with reason, without resorting to any sort of denigration, either of individuals or their position. I personally believe in treating others, and their rights to hold differing views, with respect.
So, in your world, when you see someone who is ignorant, which is not necessarily an insult, you think it should not be mentioned? When you see someone lying, they should not be called on it? How nice of you to inject such niceties into our life that exist in or on no other medium, it seems, as a political forum when you are being bested in debate.

"Discussing the issues with reason," to me, is going back and reading what the Founders of the country desired so we can place the Second Amendment in a proper context instead of citing "Common Sense According to Buddhism."
Unfortunately, though I understand you support respectful exchange, it is not apparent here. Therefore, I will leave the forum to you. Thank you again for the welcome. I will reserve my participation until I am treated with respect by your other guests.

LeAnn
How pitiful, you can come down off of your self-imposed punishment on the cross whenever you want to now. :roll:

You're looking to be insulted, you're working so very hard at it to include taking what I said to someone else out of context and claiming the insult for your very own. Ultimately, if the shoe fits, wear it and walk around for a while.
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Post by Guest »

Don Rearic wrote:Laird,I'm sorry I gave you the impression that I was somehow "against" children shooting or being in possession of firearms. Did I say anything that led you to believe I think otherwise?
Don, no need to appologise. My error sir. I misunderstood something you posted cause I just perused it and didn't take the time to reread it before responding. Sorry to have misrepresented your position. We are on the same page.

Laird
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Post by Panther »

Le Haggard wrote:However, I do mind being insulted repeatedly, told I'm ignorant, that my view is uneducated, dishonest, and addressed as the "romper room sect," based only on my disagreement with others' views. My understanding of what debating an issue is includes none of these and is entirely based on discussing the issues with reason, without resorting to any sort of denigration, either of individuals or their position. I personally believe in treating others, and their rights to hold differing views, with respect.

First:
True enough. You are quite correct that your education/knowledge on the firearms issues was questioned without knowing your education regarding firearms, the Second Amendment, the Constitution, and the history surrounding those things. Without giving us that information, those comments were premature and we apologize for them.

So, please tell us what your education/knowledge/history of those items is.

Second:
I re-read the thread. Don has already posted this as well. You were not being referred to as a child or the "romper room sect". There is a lot of history that contributed to those comments, but they were not directed at you. In fact, in re-reading Don's first reply to you, it was pretty nice... for Don. :wink:

Third:
Yes, I do support discussing the issues with reason. You joined this discussion with the statement that "I hope, though, that people can consider me as a person when throwing around their insulting terms in the future." With that in mind, I checked the rest of the threads you have posted on in the "Tough Issues" forum and have not found any place where you were insulted. Therefore, I can only feel that you came into this thread with an already installed mindset that you would be insulted here. When Don first replied to you (as just stated) he wasn't insulting to you.

And discussing an issue with reason doesn't mean that we can't get passionate about it, but it does mean that we need to have some basis for our position beyond emotionalism.
Unfortunately, though I understand you support respectful exchange, it is not apparent here.
Don did refer to your comments as "dishonest" in one reply. You told me that you aren't "anti-gun", but rather "pro-gun-control". When looking at someone who claims that they don't want to ban guns, but want more gun control, we can only look to the history of those in the "gun control" movement for their own stated agenda. Don (and I) did just that (I included a quote from Josh Sugarmann to back it up, Don included other info to back it up) and pointed to the fact that those in the gun-control movement have let their true agenda be known. They have stated that they want to confiscate ALL guns. They have stated that they want to BAN all guns. Yet they have made the same claim that you have, which is that they are not "anti-gun", but simply want "reasonable gun control". With over 20,000 gun laws on the books, the anti-gun crowd keeps asking for "more reasonable gun control". They have more than enough and most of that is unreasonable. So, we are sorry that you were called dishonest. It was a response to the anti-gun movement directed at you. For the anti-gun movement, it is provably the truth. You state that it is not true for you, so without further information, I must agree that it was an unfair comment and admonish Don for that. (Don's next actions regarding that are his.) I apologize for that characterization.
Therefore, I will leave the forum to you. Thank you again for the welcome. I will reserve my participation until I am treated with respect by your other guests.
Your choice. You have participated in other threads on this forum without problem. This thread is a very heated one from the start, and that certainly wasn't helped any by some of the participants.

Take care and be good to each other...
==================================
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Post by Akil Todd Harvey »

This is a Martial Arts Forum,

Not some sissy feel good Oprah hour. I used to come here with the mistaken impression that we could learn from each other without the need to debase each other. Boy was I disappointed!

Now that I view these forums as place to practice my favorite verbal insults and possibly to learn some new ones, I am never disappointed. Back at a time when I had my naive notions and my ignorant ways, this forum had as many as 25 members at a time surveying and adding to the forum. Now that the forum acts as a virtual slug-fest, we can barely muster more than five or ten people at a time to participate.

Mr. Elk (not Ugly in my book),

God Bless you for your concern regarding my health issues (not the mental health issues we usually deal with). I am doing so much better (at least 80% of my strength has returned and I am back at work in piecemeal fashion (presently self employed doing landscape/design/construction).

Leann,

Don is a little rough; some would say brutish or somewhat Neanderthal-like, but I would argue that, like myself, he is a little slow in knowing when people are NOT insulting him. On the inside, Don is a nice guy, but I have not seen that part of him yet.

Although he definitely let you have it once or twice, the majority of his insults were directed at me, and I probably deserved it.

Don,

Thanks so much for finding my spelling errors. Dont bother looking for them in this post as I have taken the time to use the spell checker on this post.

Some months back you called me a traitor. There was little or no thought of the SERIOUSNESS of the accusation as far as I can tell and even less to back up your claim. I have been waiting for months and months for the apology or some moderator or administrator to straighten this forum out such that such unfounded attacks would not continue to occur with such anticipated frequency.

Under these circumstances, I shall abide by the only rule I know of, shoot in the direction in which fire is directed at you. You shoot at me and I will return fire. You shoot at me unprovoked (verbally), for the mere error of having views differing from your own (a right this great country still affords I believe) and I make it my mission to save those insults just for you.

Panther,

I realize that yours is a job that few people want and even fewer would do well. Despite my criticisms of how things are working IMO, I am not saying the above as an insult to yourself. We all, individually and collectively, need to reign ourselves in (myself included, especially) such that we can sing Kumbayah together or at least get along with a minimum of friction and hostility.

I have been watching these blow-ups for months and months and I led to a single conclusion. Insanity is defined by some by doing the same things, but expecting different results.

Sensei Mattson,

[Deleted a nasty remark pertaining to another forum:GEM]

I dont make the rules and I wont pretend to have some magic insight capable of creating rules that are any better than those already created, but if the rules have no teeth behind them, except for those who may possess somewhat liberal or left leaning tendencies, then there may be a large segment of the audience that is displeased with the overall experience.

Please sir, do not take this for insults or complaints about this forum, but rather as a desire to see this forum continue to be one of quality and substance, not insult and debasement. There are plenty of places on the internet where that can be found a plenty. What is truly scarce is a site that is as open to being the best site it can be.

Despite my criticisms and concerns, I keep coming back. Why? Despite the problems, this is still one of the best MA forums in existence. We may be headed in the wrong direction, at least in some ways, but I for one, want to see that change. If I did not care, I would not bother sticking my neck out, I would just say my insults and go home.

I wish I could address you and this audience without sarcasm and bitterness, but I am bitter at the deliberate personal insults that have been thrown my way in guise of debate. I have had people demanding apologies of me with none ever offered or even any recognition where apologies were offered.

You know me to be a competent arsehole (don, this one is deliberately mispelled). In other words, when I want to be a butthole, I am quite good at it. Despite my arsehole prowess, I prefer to operate in "nice guy" mode. When I feel threatened, attacked, or otherwise deliberately misunderstood, there is no longer any room for "nice guy" mode. Tis out the window and buttmunch is what you are left with.

I would love to come here feeling personally safe from the attacks that are so frequent here and I will even admit where I have ratcheted up the insult level. Blame me for what I have done wrong, that is fair, but understand that I drew my poison pen only on defense of my character and religion. I came here in peace and wishing others peace. For my own foibles, I can take the blame, but for those who attack me merely because I call God by a different name, dare to view socialism as a possibility, or speak my concerns at an "Open Forum", I hold myself NOT accountable for that.

For those who view this as yet another whining festival, that is precisely why you keep getting in these verbal arguments, because you minimize or totally ignore what is important to others, while making whatever is important to you be the center of the universe. Sorry to disapoint folks, but the universe doesn’t revolve around......

Go in Peace or Pieces..........Tis your choice

ATH
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