When grading or testing students for rank some consideration must be given to how students are partnered for exercises.
Some partner by sameness, others by difference. And how to women fit into the mix? If there are two women testing, should they always be partnered? Should a woman always be partnered with the smallest man? Should a man who is partnered with a woman also get to do the same exercise partnered with another man?
Partnering for Tests
Moderator: Available
In my dojo, sex & size doesn't seem to be an issue when partnering for tests. I'll qualify that with a couple of points though. I've only been through two tests (third on Monday, hopefully), and have watched another one. We seem to be partnered up based on rank, i.e. when testing kotikitae, I was partnered with another lower-kyu level adult. I have not seen adults partnered with kids, but the reasoning for that probably has more to do with testing requirements than age; I did see a 15 year old partnered with a 40+ year old for brown belt sparring (both male). As the 15 year old is around 5' 5", and the 40+ year old is about 8-10 inches taller, with quite a bit more weight, it was interesting to watch. They both accquitted themselves well, although I wondered if the adult brown belt had concerns about hitting the teenager too hard.
For non-test days, again sex and size aren't really an issue. Again I will qualify this, because I am female and 6' (and not as lithe as I'd like to be). I don't know if the smaller women have issues with working out with me. Make that smaller men as well.
For non-test days, again sex and size aren't really an issue. Again I will qualify this, because I am female and 6' (and not as lithe as I'd like to be). I don't know if the smaller women have issues with working out with me. Make that smaller men as well.
-
Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Re: Partnering for Tests
Dana-Sensei,Dana Sheets wrote:When grading or testing students for rank some consideration must be given to how students are partnered for exercises.
Some partner by sameness, others by difference. And how to women fit into the mix? If there are two women testing, should they always be partnered? Should a woman always be partnered with the smallest man? Should a man who is partnered with a woman also get to do the same exercise partnered with another man?
Back in the Jurassic Period, when I was training, we literally drew our partner's names from a hat. Rank was sometimes used for certain aspects and adults and kids were rarely paired unless size was not much of an issue.
Sensei felt it was more like the street that way - you NEVER know what you are going to draw on the street - hence, the dojo was very similar.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com
"No matter where you go, there you MIGHT be!" - Heisenberg
My personal concern is not being able to show what you (me, whoever) have got. A recent example, although not a formal test; we were doing cumulative exercises at the end of class, free form "one-step sparring". The attacker randomly attacks and the defender responds naturally. The instructor was goading us to let loose and be natural with what we've learned, but I had to stop and think "can i throw this person-- oh wait they haven't learned how to fall yet, can I put a spontaneous joint lock on this person-- their arms are too thin I might break something!" For class it was no big deal, but in a test, you won't get a full sense of what they can do.
A solution I've seen use that I strongly agree with is have everyone who wants/needs to work with the big black belt. That way you can show your throws and all around rough them up without breaking some little kids arm etc.
A solution I've seen use that I strongly agree with is have everyone who wants/needs to work with the big black belt. That way you can show your throws and all around rough them up without breaking some little kids arm etc.
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Dana
A little secret - exposed.
For years when we were sending U.Va. Uechi women up to tests, I tried to get them to be partnered with men on the sparring. On a few occasions, we actually got some men to agree. But then the person in charge of the sparring ring would nix it.
Lately, with some variety in the testing boards, I've actually been able to get a male partner for a woman now and then.
The biggest problem I have partnering women with women is that some (not all) of the women I have trained have problems hitting other women, or showing their best. A guy is a different story. They really don't feel like they're going to hurt them, and don't worry about punching the face, etc.
There will always be issues. But at the end of the day, you have to partner people up and get the test done before dark. And of course everyone wants that "perfect" partner. So... Things happen.
Excellent candidates make the best out of any situation. The rest of the mere mortals, well... They just have to do the best they can. In any case, I highly recommend people vary their training partners ALL THE TIME in class. Big ones, small ones, fast, slow, male, female... Never know who's going to attack you. God's truth! And getting out of your comfort zone ON A REGULAR BASIS is the best thing you can do to prepare for tests and fights without actually doing them (tests and fights) all the time.
- Bill
A little secret - exposed.
For years when we were sending U.Va. Uechi women up to tests, I tried to get them to be partnered with men on the sparring. On a few occasions, we actually got some men to agree. But then the person in charge of the sparring ring would nix it.
Lately, with some variety in the testing boards, I've actually been able to get a male partner for a woman now and then.
The biggest problem I have partnering women with women is that some (not all) of the women I have trained have problems hitting other women, or showing their best. A guy is a different story. They really don't feel like they're going to hurt them, and don't worry about punching the face, etc.
There will always be issues. But at the end of the day, you have to partner people up and get the test done before dark. And of course everyone wants that "perfect" partner. So... Things happen.
Excellent candidates make the best out of any situation. The rest of the mere mortals, well... They just have to do the best they can. In any case, I highly recommend people vary their training partners ALL THE TIME in class. Big ones, small ones, fast, slow, male, female... Never know who's going to attack you. God's truth! And getting out of your comfort zone ON A REGULAR BASIS is the best thing you can do to prepare for tests and fights without actually doing them (tests and fights) all the time.
- Bill
-
Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
Lee,
Sounds like your school had the right attitude. Was everyone on board with it?
TSD guy, your idea sounds good but a non-testing blackbelt could be biased to "help" their partners look good and go along with technique or go easy on folks. The nice thing about two people testing as partners is that both are in the stress of test mode so the board gets to see them both under pressure.
Bill,
Can't say I'm surprised. Can say I'm disappointed there wasn't support for your efforts. How is this kind of thing handled today? Are partners chosen by the teacher sponsoring the student for the test or does the board decide or is it up to the decision of an indivdiual sparring judge?
Sounds like your school had the right attitude. Was everyone on board with it?
TSD guy, your idea sounds good but a non-testing blackbelt could be biased to "help" their partners look good and go along with technique or go easy on folks. The nice thing about two people testing as partners is that both are in the stress of test mode so the board gets to see them both under pressure.
Bill,
Can't say I'm surprised. Can say I'm disappointed there wasn't support for your efforts. How is this kind of thing handled today? Are partners chosen by the teacher sponsoring the student for the test or does the board decide or is it up to the decision of an indivdiual sparring judge?
-
Jackie Olsen
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Fri Sep 18, 1998 6:01 am
- Contact:
In all of my dan tests I have been partnered with guys. I supposed it might have something to do with my heights (5'10"); however, two of my partners were taller, one was quite a bit shorter, but testing for two dan ranks above me.
Our board appears to partner people based upon ability and to see how they apply themselves with different-sized/rank partners. One of our women (5'3") was partnered with a woman 6'1"! The guys who've tested have also drawn partners of unequal size.
Jackie
Our board appears to partner people based upon ability and to see how they apply themselves with different-sized/rank partners. One of our women (5'3") was partnered with a woman 6'1"! The guys who've tested have also drawn partners of unequal size.
AMEN, Bill!And getting out of your comfort zone ON A REGULAR BASIS is the best thing you can do to prepare for tests and fights without actually doing them (tests and fights) all the time.
Jackie
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Dana
One thing that has helped in IUKF is the introduction of a 2 round sparring.
For the prearranged partner sequences, it's really no big deal. While I disagree with this attitude, most don't really give a **** about dan kumite and seisan bunkai anyway. Plus, dojos do these differently. So it makes sense just to do these with dojo mates. But sparring is something else. Everyone agrees that this is as important as sanchin and designated kata. And you ideally want someone to spar a person outside the dojo to get a little better realism.
If you have one shot to make your grade, you want a good partner. Having two partners takes the pressure off of selecting that "ideal" partner for everyone, where all the typical biases enter. Instead, you get an opportunity to investigate a few "interesting" pairings. This is where I have seen more matching of females with males. And the results seem fine to me, and demonstrate (to me) that this should have been done all along.
The excellent students always do fine no matter what. The marginal ones are the students you really want the best assessment for. You always wonder if someone had a "bad" partner if it was only one pairing. But the chance of that happening with 2 different people is diminished. And 4 times out of 5, you see "the problem" with BOTH partners.
- Bill
One thing that has helped in IUKF is the introduction of a 2 round sparring.
For the prearranged partner sequences, it's really no big deal. While I disagree with this attitude, most don't really give a **** about dan kumite and seisan bunkai anyway. Plus, dojos do these differently. So it makes sense just to do these with dojo mates. But sparring is something else. Everyone agrees that this is as important as sanchin and designated kata. And you ideally want someone to spar a person outside the dojo to get a little better realism.
If you have one shot to make your grade, you want a good partner. Having two partners takes the pressure off of selecting that "ideal" partner for everyone, where all the typical biases enter. Instead, you get an opportunity to investigate a few "interesting" pairings. This is where I have seen more matching of females with males. And the results seem fine to me, and demonstrate (to me) that this should have been done all along.
The excellent students always do fine no matter what. The marginal ones are the students you really want the best assessment for. You always wonder if someone had a "bad" partner if it was only one pairing. But the chance of that happening with 2 different people is diminished. And 4 times out of 5, you see "the problem" with BOTH partners.
- Bill
