How to do something stupid while training

[Scott Danziger]

Or as I like to call it, me being me.

About a year and a half ago while doing sanchin on my own in the living room of the old apartment I used to live in, I decided that I had a way to test my sanchin focus to my mid section. Now since I was training alone and my wife who, as usual, wouldn't help me I came up with a brain storm. I decided that if I took a broom stick and placed one end of it against my wave master, and the other end against my breadbasket, I could push against this while in a sanchin stance. I actually tried to move the wave master. Well, since the end of a broom stick is a small surface, it was a little painful.

I noticed that for days the area stayed a little sore but I paid it no mind. Then a few months later, that I can recall, when I pushed out of my stomach I would get a little rise from my insides. As time went on it got bigger and came out more easily. I suspected what it was but since it wasn't really painful most of the time I let it slide.

Then I finally decided to really start training hard. New house, basement with weight training doo hickeys, and the discovery of some people at work also into martial arts. Well the area was feeling sore sometimes now and I was constantly pushing my guts back into this little hole I could feel. Right at the same exact spot I had put the end of that broomstick. Also, I noticed the size of that bulge when I pushed out was getting quite large. And it was coming out even when I sneezed or coughed. I was actually holding it in when I did sneeze or cough.

Well a few months ago, knowing that summer camp was coming up and I was planning on finally going I decided that I better get this checked out so I made an appointment for only a physical. Never mentioned anything else.

During the physical the doctor had me lay down on the table and while pressing on my lower abs had me cough. Of course nothing showed up there. That's when I told her 'I think I have a hernia up here', pointing to my mid section. She pressed there and I coughed but nothing happened. So I sat up and said, 'Check this out', and pushed out. You should have seen her eyes. I never saw a doctor do that. She asked me how long it was like that and read me the riot act about how I have to cease working out and I could strangle my intenstines and if I did I'd wear a bag on my leg for 6 months. In a few days I was at a surgeons office and the following week, on July 23rd, I had a ventral hernia repaired. Turns out though that it was fat that was coming through and the Dr. told me he cut most of it off and put the rest back in and stitched me up. However, I can't do anything involving my abs till after Labor day.

I consider myself lucky though. Had it been the lower type hernia most common I would have been laid up a lot longer and in much more pain. I only lost a week of work, going to camp, and 6-7 weeks of no strenuous activity.

ah... the stupid things I do.

There is a lesson to be learned here and this is why I posted this.

[Deep Sea]

ah... the stupid things I do.

There is a lesson to be learned here and this is why I posted this.

Two thoughts: 1) a real good conversation opener, or 2) to warn us against the dangers of not having hernias promptly taken care if.

Had it been the lower type hernia most common I would have been laid up a lot longer and in much more pain.

If you are referring to inguinal hernias, it was once a painful week-in-the-hospital stay. Story-time leading up to the simpleness of the operation.

I knew a guy once who had a substantial-sized hernia. He continued to do his heavy physical activities for a number of years. Whenever his intestines popped out he pushed them back in and then went along his own business. Then the other side ripped open. Several years later while conversing with a friend the friend told him he could die because gangrene could set in without his knowledge, and if so it would be all over -- because that's what happened to his dad.

Now white to the lips with fear, the tear-master [pronounced "t'air"] was operated on within several days. The op required a significant portion of the morning. Get this... When it was over they wheeled the patient into the waiting room. The doctor then said "As soon as you can stand up you can go home."

A simple procedure these days. Just like a McDonald's drive-in window.

However, one word of hard [pun] good advice: Be wary of Cocaine [prescription, of course] after a dual hernia operation.

Footnote: Inguinal hernias:= For years I thought that was the hiding place of the big Iguana.

[Bill Glasheen]

Scott

Thanks for sharing this.

George, we REALLY should have a "Don't do this" section on our webpage. When I taught very large classes at U.Va., we would often do debriefings after injuries and share the findings. I believe we prevented lots of injuries by informing the class about what NOT to do.

Here are some that top this, Scott. You are not alone.

SCENARIO 1:
During a break, a female student decided she would show off by having her male friend sit on her shoulders while she did knuckle pushups. Her fist slipped on the sweaty floor. She smashed her face and required 8 stitches.

SCENARIO 2:
Student goes home after Thursday evening Uechi class. He and his buddies start partying in the frat house. They are bragging about being able to take a hit in the gut (a la sanchin test style). So they drink a few beers, stand up and punch each other in the gut, drink a few more beers, do more punching...

Later, they go to pee. Our Uechi class student whips his Johnson out to do the deed...and nothing comes out. Why? He had ruptured his bladder, and all the urine was in his gut.

Get well soon, Scott!! Don't feel bad. The great ones sometimes fall off the edge of the sword now and then.

- Bill

[f.Channell]

Allen,
The Iguana crease is that magic spot you hit in the dan kumite takedown and render your partner helpless on the ground.
Rather than a nice shoken or bushiken to the groin as done in the Kenyukai.

f.

[Deep Sea]

That must be why I once said "I'm gonna stomp on your Iggy." Fred. Now I get it!

[Bill Glasheen]

There's a little bit of anatomical confusion here...

The inguinal (NOT iguanal) area is actually below the "crease" you are talking about. Follow the crease down just a little lower, and you can find the "hole" where your testicles dropped through the abdominal wall when you were an embryo.

The "crease" is commonly referred to as the "femoral crease" (not the inguinal crease) because it is where the femoral artery/vein/nerve is. I did thousands of catheterizations in that crease in dogs when in the cardiac lab. Cardiologists "cath" you in that area when they want to image the heart.

The reason why strikes work in that area though has little to do with the femoral artery/vein/nerve. (An exception would be if you slashed someone there with a knife. Then that person is "toast." ). Rather the technique works because you trigger the hip flexor stretch reflex. It makes a person buckle at the hips, thus making the takedown easier. That has to do with the hip flexor tendon and the neuromuscular apparatus associated with it.

FWIW.

- Bill

[Deep Sea]

FWIW.

Thank you for the info Bill. I think Fred and I were purposefully modifying words with each other, at least I was with him. However your last paragraph is informative and appreciated.

[David Kahn]

Are you taking notes on the anatomy lesson here?

(sorry, everyone...inside joke)

David

[Bill Glasheen]

We can hear Raffi's snickers all the way down here in Richmond.

Allen, I apologize but wanted to make sure just in case. And by all means, stomp on their Iggy!

- Bill

[Akil Todd Harvey]

When I was a younger, I once decided to drive all the way from Philadelphia to Boston, wihtout stopping for rest (fuel maybe). I think I got as far as Framingham before really needing a break. I was in a hurry to get back and young and a bit foolish........Five hours without much of a break........This is how I think i got the starting of my hernia.....

Years later I was working as an airport shuttle driver, delivering and picking up in over eight counties and nearly a dozen regional airports.......Driving long periods without break, heavy lifting, followed by more long drives with little break........

My hernia was on the right side, I think because that is the leg I drive with......That was not the only way I hurt myself....I used to carry all the groceries in from the garage without taking a second trip, I thought it was making my fingertips and hands stronger......

Well, I was the lucky one, I got the iguana and the hernia.....same place......I had this thing for about five years, it only popped out a little and rarely caused any sensation of pain for any length of time, allowing me to ignore it for that length of time.

Then I was doing demolition and other aspects of construction work and the pain became unbearable in the weeks before I was supposed to move to a new apartment. I got the iguana tied up by a surgeon two weeks before I moved........

I spent five days in bed and five months trying to recover my strength. I would say about 50 to 80% of my original strength can now be utilized without significant pain.

Very humbling.......and If it helps others......The worst thing was not lifting heavy objects, but rather lifting them for extended periods of time.......driving was not the problem, but driving for long periods without taking a break......and taking a break could be just using the cruise control rather than constantly jokeying for position among the other racers on the road (ooooops, I keep having to remind myself, driving is not the same as gran prix driving).......

Repetitive strain injuries have soemthing in common with the above....the problem is often not that the strain is so great, but that there is not sufficient rest or healing time between repetitive strains.......

Be well and dont drive like Akil

[Bill Glasheen]

Be well and dont drive like Akil

What's wrong with driving like Akil?

We folk with illnesses like to attribute them to things we do or have done. Sometimes it's right on the money (like the guy who ruptured his beer-filled bladder by encouraging folks to punch him in the gut). But sometimes...

Hernias happen. There are many risk factors. Some is genetic. If your daddy had a hernia, you might get a hernia (wife AND father-in-law had them repaired). If you were born premature, you are at risk.

Just be careful. Stretch regularly and correctly. If you can, find some hip adductor/abductor machines in a gym and use them regularly. Do leg lifts or an equivalent. Breathe out when you lift very heavy objects.

And if it breaks through BY ALL MEANS see a doctor ASAP. My wife had hers done as an outpatient procedure - complete with the installation of a protective mesh. Not that big a deal.

- Bill

[miked]

Someone wrote that you can be out of the hospital the same day after hernia surgery.

This is true for lapascropic surgery. I had three hernias repaired in April and could barely move for a week. I didn't return to working out until 3 or 4 weeks, as driving was prohibited.

During that time, it felt like I had done very heavy abdominal conditioning with Sensei Canna. Thank God for Uechi conditioning or else I would have been in agony.

Four months later I am only now just slowly starting to rebuild my abdominal conditioning.

All the best,

Mike D.
Los Angeles

[Deep Sea]

Someone wrote that you can be out of the hospital the same day after hernia surgery.

Yeah, I did Mike. There was about 8" of stitches on both sides, and for a while afterwards it felt like a couple of pieces of rope under the skin where they had pulled the muscle walls together and stitched them up. I remember sitting in the chair in front of the nurse's office trying to stand up but every time I did the pain was intense enough to turn my face white and I began to pass out. My mouth began to get dry after a while [seemed like an eternity] and I requested a diet coke. I remember specifically because a nurse or someone returned with a regular coke/pepsi which I almost refused to drink. However, after a few decent sized swallows I felt a little better and although the pain or trying to stand had not diminished on my nest attempt I was successful having overpowered the cloud of faintitude.

The good Dr. said the operation must have caused low blood sugar or I could have become dehydrated -- and we left it as that because I was so happy to go home.

The Cocaine thing, which no one picked up on is another good lesson to learn about medication and stuff. Unbeknowingest to me it is binding. In other words one of the side effects of that drug is to act as if a busy beaver built a dam across the mud flats. My major pains came three or four days after the operation with that same amount of time without relief. It was a nervos time because I really thought everything was going to explode right through both stitches. That was the toughest part of the entire ordeal. Once that danger had passed [hmmmm] it was only soreness that lingered which developed down to an occasional twinge of discomfort.

What I want to provide youse with all this is: 1) Sugar can be used as a tool, and 2) Have plenty of prune juice and/or Ducolax handy when prescribed certain drugs. The Coke doesn't do anything for the pain anyway; it just makes you feel stupid.

Bill, no problem. OOPS... Gotta go; time to bleed my lizard.

[Scott Danziger]

I was at the hospital at 1pm and home by 7pm. I was wheeled in to surgery a 2:50pm.

I was in pain when the pain medicine wore off. And a zombie from the anestesia (I can't spell that one).

My brother had 4 of the lower abdominal hernias. He was stuck in bed for a week. And he was in massive pain. He also got the mesh on his last visit. I actually wanted the mesh to be on the safe side. The Dr. told me only if the hole is larger that a quarter. After the surgery he told me it was just the size of a quarter and I did not recieve the mesh.

It's been about 4 weeks now and I feel fine. I still have a hard lump under the skin that is ever so slow to dissolve. I feel like I'm ready to start working out but since being stupid put me in this position, I'll wait until after Labor day like the Dr. said.

Recently I was just privilged to see an old video clip of an Okinawan doing the same stupid thing. I feel better now

[f.Channell]

There are a lot of stories of martial arts masters using a staff for different training things of this type or other. I'm sure I read one of Master Kanbun Uechi using one to test his stance against a couple of students.
I just wish a hurricane would come up the coast so I could test my sanchin in the yard .
And what of doing sanchin under a freezing cold waterfall?
I've heard of walking on teacups.
Fighting bulls.
Theres quite a few of these types of things scott.
Your not alone.
F.